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What is the rumoured archive project?
8 December 2013
2.12pm
meanmistermustard
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EMI have been milking the Beatles cow since 1976 hence all those compilations that came out (Rock And Roll Music, Love Songs, Ballads), plus all the reissues of the singles, EP's and LP box sets. All that merchandise is doing the same thing, only to a far lesser profit. And lets not forget the limited edition 30th anniversary White Album release.

 

If Apple want to do then thats up to them but its not going to add 1 little bit to the Beatles or the solo Beatles legacy, all its going to do is open itself up to public derision for putting together another Beatles reunion which for all concerned is unnecessary and to many will look like desperate. What benefit to their legacy is this going to achieve? You can want to do something but at times its not a good idea and it gets left alone. 

I honestly doubt that there is as much enthusiasm for Beatles Reunion #2 because it's been done before. So many people who craved it for 25 years finally got it? Why bother going back over old ground? For one last Beatles song pieced together from all over the place so everyone can once again savour a Beatles record? Again, as said last time, what about in 20 years time, do we get a Let It Be jam, fly in some George guitar from 1974, add a new Paul vocal, mix out Yoko, and everyone can once again live out the Beatles? The whole idea stinks to high heaven. At some point people have to move on, accept there will be no more Beatles, no one last record. We have the records, we have the footage, we have the books documenting everything if we want to revisit those times ("You know, you have all the old records there if you want to reminisce." – John Lennon 1971).

Exactly how is an unfinished, rejected demo not even recorded properly "the most important unreleased Beatles track left in their entire archive"?

[Quote from above post] Free As A Bird and Real Love were nice Beatles records and perhaps Now and then, with McCartney's thoughtful input and emotion will make it a better record than the other two. One of the big components in the Beatles was Lennon and McCartney writing and singing together, and Free As A Bird and Real Love for the most part did not provide that for the fans.

Free As A Bird had a few new lines added, i believe written by Paul but maybe George and Ringo added a bit. Both had "McCartney's thoughtful input and emotion". Paul writing a new verse or two to a John Lennon song from 33 years is completely different to sitting down with John and writing it or suggesting it in the studio when together as John could say yes or no. They would collaborate, John can't do that now. And if FAAB and RL didn't provide it for the fans why the hell would Now and Then, cut from the same cloth do so? 

"Well, probably we'll sell less records, less people'll go to see the film, we'll write less songs, and we'll all die of failure" (John Lennon 8/64)
8 December 2013
9.37pm
Linde
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meanmistermustard said

trcanberra said

Linde said
That would be horrible and it wouldn't really add anything. Plus it wouldn't be the Beatles. I personally really dislike Free As A Bird, though the video is fab, and with Real Love it's the other way around, but at least back then they were with three. Those two songs didn't really add anything either in my eyes. I don't need to hear another unfinished John song being ''finished'' by Paul and Ringo without John and George being able to have input.

Which is ok for you.  However, if this happened, I would love it – I think those two songs are great.  All that 'has to be the four of them' thing is almost laughable in light of how they recorded The Beatles album.

 

It's not that all four have to be on it, more that all four have to say yes or not raise objection to a project which was The Beatles way of working. In regards to Now and Then George said no. That should be far more crucial than anything else. 

 

Edit: Which actually raises the question of whether or not projects such as the Let It Be dvd or Carnival Of Light should be released. George was against both seeing the light of day as much as Now and Then.

 

That's what I meant. Especially with songs that were written by one of them after the Beatles. 

 

I can live without that dvd or COL, which is probably crap anyway. I'm just curious. More curious to those things than to some unfinished John songs anyway.

8 December 2013
10.03pm
meanmistermustard
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I will admit that i'm not that fussed about Carnival Of Light, curious yes but its not something i crave. Would far rather have other studio outtakes then a long piece of psychedelic weirdness that will get played once or twice before being filed away in the unlistenable crap folder.  

"Well, probably we'll sell less records, less people'll go to see the film, we'll write less songs, and we'll all die of failure" (John Lennon 8/64)
8 December 2013
10.42pm
parlance
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I'm not too interested in CoL, given that everyone who's heard and talked about it has politely called it crap. I'd rather hear the supposed 20-minute take of Helter Skelter.

parlance

Beware of sadness. It can hit you. It can hurt you. Make you sore and what is more, that is not what you are here for. - George

Check out my fan video for Paul's song "Appreciate" at YouTube and Vimeo.

9 December 2013
9.44am
whobeatle
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First let me apologize, the moderator has to keep editing my posts, because I don't know how to use this forum properly yet. Apparently I type on the wrong spaces, I'll get eventually, where I am supposed to type.

 

For my new friend Mean Mr Mustard, we just disagree. But you did ask, even if it was sarcastic, so I'll give you a few of the reasons why Now and then is important. First off to me anyway, both Free As A Bird and Real Love were better songs, and more complete. Harrison made a big deal about he wrote some new chords to FAAB, but often chords can be interchangable, many different chords can be used. Now and then on the other hand, is weaker less complete song on Lennon's demo. So by Necessity McCartney has to write some lyric and musical bits to finish those gaps in the song, so the end result is more of a Lennon/McCartney cowrite probably with more of a co lead vocal, FAAB and RL were more strictly Lennon oriented, although, McCartney and Harrison both took a turn singing lead on the bridge. Second doing the song defeats the murderer who took Lennons life allowing good to triumph over evil. Third it would make many people happy. millions of people like me who would like one more song. Third, We get a song with a real Lennon/Mccartney collaboration. Fourth they only released two new songs, and three is better, since they chose not to make an entire new album, three songs gives us a slightly larger window to see that one last Beatles moment. Fifth young fans not yet born in the sixties will have one chance to experience a new Beatles single. Sixth we know this will be the final new Beatles single ever and can savor and enjoy it accordingly. 7th its not some crappy song that couldn't cut the mustard, its the last new Beatles single in history, by two of the greatest songwriters ever. 8th The Beatles thought something of it, because recent research indicates it was the original second choice, and contrary to some of Jeff Lynne's statements they spent more time on it than Real Love. I could go on all day, but the best reason, is because when that sound comes out of the speakers, its going to be a fantastic sound! of the Beatles! who would have thought!Who would want to turn down that opportunity! Its all well and good to kick the idea without hearing the song, but when people hear the song, they will smile, cry, laugh, emote, feel, because it will sound great. If it ever happens and comes to be..

 

Hey I agree there is a fine line, the Beatles originally intended three or four new tracks, or more, there is one more left in the can they all participated on, so lets hear the darn thing, they are all on the recording, and people who have heard it, have been very moved apparently, moved in a good way. So I hear, I havent heard it, I cant even swear its true.

 

But I agree Mr Mustard, I don't think they should fly in a Harrison guitar part from 1974 twenty years from now and Frankenstein a bunch of Beatles records through the rest of the 21st century. What I  think they should do, is release the White Demos, Few remaining unknown songs, the best and most interesting alternate takes, like the long Helter Skelter, and the music videos, and whatever good stuff is left. Maybe one day they could do something similar to what Townshend has done with Tommy and Quadrophenia, and do 5.1 or regular remixes of the later Beatles albums with bonus tracks, and nice packaging and booklets. And that should be the end of it. I don't want to perpetuate selling the same Beatles songs with new packaging over and over again with overpriced collectors writing pens. I think it should just all come out and thats it. Just like they reprint classic books by Dickens or James Joyce, every once in a while they should do a new printing and thats it finished. But of course thats the one thing they have no interest in doing.

9 December 2013
12.31pm
meanmistermustard
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whobeatle said
First let me apologize, the moderator has to keep editing my posts, because I don't know how to use this forum properly yet. Apparently I type on the wrong spaces, I'll get eventually, where I am supposed to type.

 

For my new friend Mean Mr Mustard, we just disagree. But you did ask, even if it was sarcastic, so I'll give you a few of the reasons why Now and then is important. First off to me anyway, both Free As A Bird and Real Love were better songs, and more complete. Harrison made a big deal about he wrote some new chords to FAAB, but often chords can be interchangable, many different chords can be used. Now and then on the other hand, is weaker less complete song on Lennon's demo. So by Necessity McCartney has to write some lyric and musical bits to finish those gaps in the song, so the end result is more of a Lennon/McCartney cowrite probably with more of a co lead vocal, FAAB and RL were more strictly Lennon oriented, although, McCartney and Harrison both took a turn singing lead on the bridge. Second doing the song defeats the murderer who took Lennons life allowing good to triumph over evil.

Releasing anything, no matter what it is, does not and will never defeat John's murderer. He wanted to be famous, remembered for all of time as the person who killed an icon, John sadly was the guy he chose to fulfill that. It wasn't to stop a Beatles reunion, Chapman was a Beatles fan. No Beatles song will ever defeat that. You make the best of a terrible situation and get on with it, not letting the scumbag bring you down but another final new Beatles song would never come close.

Third it would make many people happy. millions of people like me who would like one more song. Third, We get a song with a real Lennon/Mccartney collaboration.

 Paul writing new verses to a Lennon demo after John is dead is not and never will be a true Lennon/McCartney composition. Never in a month of Sundays. John and Paul collaborated over the songs, bouncing ideas off each other, even if just a word change the other would be able to say no – that can not happen now (this address a point above but is easier to insert here).

Fourth they only released two new songs, and three is better, since they chose not to make an entire new album, three songs gives us a slightly larger window to see that one last Beatles moment.

Just because three is more does not mean it is better. Going by that logic isn't four better than three, lets get something else together to relive one more Beatles moment.

Fifth young fans not yet born in the sixties will have one chance to experience a new Beatles single.

I wasn't born in the 60's and i saw a Beatles reunion, my brothers and sisters did. Quite a lot of people not born in the Sixties have experienced a new Beales single, heck we got two. It has happened. It has been done. And what about fans who don't get to see reunion #2, single #3, reunion #3, reunion #4, reunion #5 reunion #6. . .? Why do the ones alive now get it yet future fans cannot? Going down that avenue there is no stopping point. Folks who missed just have to accept it. It might not be nice, it might not be what they want, but that is life. You just have to carry on.

Sixth we know this will be the final new Beatles single ever and can savor and enjoy it accordingly.

Most folks thought Real Love was the last. If another comes out who's to say that that will definitely be it?

7th its not some crappy song that couldn't cut the mustard, its the last new Beatles single in history, by two of the greatest songwriters ever.

Just because its by Lennon and McCartney does not mean its a great song by default even if it is the last song ever. All four Beatles knew when material was weak and it was rejected or reworked – If You Got Troubles and That Means A Lot being two examples. It's what made their output so damn strong. 

8th The Beatles thought something of it, because recent research indicates it was the original second choice, and contrary to some of Jeff Lynne's statements they spent more time on it than Real Love. I could go on all day, but the best reason, is because when that sound comes out of the speakers, its going to be a fantastic sound! of the Beatles! who would have thought!Who would want to turn down that opportunity! Its all well and good to kick the idea without hearing the song, but when people hear the song, they will smile, cry, laugh, emote, feel, because it will sound great. If it ever happens and comes to be.
Have you heard the song? Presuming you haven't how do you know its great? It could be utter rank, an embarrassment to the Beatles. Just because it's got the Beatles name does not give it a divine right to be awesome. Some of the Get Back sessions material in unlistenable shit but that has the Beatles name to it. 

Hey I agree there is a fine line, the Beatles originally intended three or four new tracks, or more, there is one more left in the can they all participated on, so lets hear the darn thing, they are all on the recording, and people who have heard it, have been very moved apparently, moved in a good way. So I hear, I havent heard it, I cant even swear its true.

Well that answers my question above. If its released i will listen and hope to like it, i will get excited (not as excited as the first time around but i will get excited), but i have serious reservations about piecing together another reunion single. It smells of cashing in and that was never The Beatles. The record companies yes but not John, Paul, George and Ringo.

But I agree Mr Mustard, I don't think they should fly in a Harrison guitar part from 1974 twenty years from now and Frankenstein a bunch of Beatles records through the rest of the 21st century. What I  think they should do, is release the White Demos, Few remaining unknown songs, the best and most interesting alternate takes, like the long Helter Skelter, and the music videos, and whatever good stuff is left. Maybe one day they could do something similar to what Townshend has done with Tommy and Quadrophenia, and do 5.1 or regular remixes of the later Beatles albums with bonus tracks, and nice packaging and booklets. And that should be the end of it. I don't want to perpetuate selling the same Beatles songs with new packaging over and over again with overpriced collectors writing pens. I think it should just all come out and thats it. Just like they reprint classic books by Dickens or James Joyce, every once in a while they should do a new printing and thats it finished. But of course thats the one thing they have no interest in doing.

On that i agree. Hey we agree on something.

The Beatles Monthly back in 1996 reported a song called All For Love had been newly recorded by The Threetles (no John); maybe we will get Anthologies 4, 5 & 6 after all.  

"Well, probably we'll sell less records, less people'll go to see the film, we'll write less songs, and we'll all die of failure" (John Lennon 8/64)
9 December 2013
9.53pm
Linde
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I agree with everything MMM said.

 

Also, a true reunion is impossible. For a Beatles reunion we need John, Paul, George and Ringo, and sadly, two of them aren't among us anymore.

9 December 2013
10.27pm
trcanberra
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Linde said
I agree with everything MMM said.

 

Also, a true reunion is impossible. For a Beatles reunion we need John, Paul, George and Ringo, and sadly, two of them aren't among us anymore.

I agree that a true reunion is impossible.  However, I am very interested in hearing anything the two amazingly talented survivors decide to do with whatever is at hand.  What we label it just doesn't worry me.

 

10 December 2013
1.50am
whobeatle
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With all due respect to Mr Mustard or anyone sharing those views, It wouldn't be another Beatles reunion.It is simply finally releasing a song from the 94-95 reunion we haven't heard yet. Many Lennon tapes had been stolen by Lennon assistant Fred Seaman, they were recovered, but had not been by 1994-5. Therefore the original working tape the Beatles had of Now and then had a terrible buzz. Cleaner tapes without the buzz surfaced several years later after the recovery of the Seaman tapes. Another objection Harrison had was because the Beatles faced an imminent deadline for the release of the Anthology project. Much of Harrison's objections were the quality of the original tape with the buzz on it, and having enough time available to fix all the issues with Now and then. That doesn't mean it's not any good, many songs and records have issues that need to be fixed. So again the Beatles fully intended to release at least three songs, they ran into problems. Those problems were solved. All four Beatles play on the track and were involved, but McCartney, Jeff Lynne and Ringo oversaw the latter portion of the recording when technology and circumstance allowed solutions to the original problems. 

 

So it's not yet another Beatles reunion as Mr Mustard characterized it, it's just (hopefully) being able to finally hear the completed third song. The last new Beatles song ever. There may be future mashups, or unknown songs recorded in the sixties, but this is the last new song. Unless the song known as All For Love surfaces. Jeff Lynne has stated there was no song titled "All For Love", he didin't say there was not a fourth Beatles reunion song, he just says that is not a correct title. Our witness to what we call All For Love, is one Peter Hodgson of Liverpool, a friend of McCartneys, in March of 95 he visited McCartney at his studio the Mill, and McCartney told Hodgson Ringo and George had been up the other day recording a new song called All For Love. There are photos of Hodgson during this time with McCartney at the studio. Supposedly according to the website, Beatles reunion recording sessions, All For Love (or whatever it's called) was recorded for three days in March 1995. Unlike the other three songs, this was not a Lennon demo. It was a new song cowritten by McCartney/Harrison, on the third day some type of argument erupted between McCartney and Harrison regarding a lyric or Musical change or changes within the song. Harrison became upset and said the Beatles shouldn't record any further songs. Now and then had already been worked on numerous times and partially recorded. Jeff Lynne's often quoted comment about How Now and then was just recorded for one day, seems to be totally inaccurate, inaccurate even in 1995, it appears to have been the original choice for the second song, they turned to Real Love only after having technical issues with Now and then. Even so, studio logs, and eye witness accounts indicate Now and then was worked on much more than Real Love, not ever for just one day as Lynne _supposedly said. There are believed to be very strong nondisclosure agreements signed by people who work closely with the Beatles, Jeff Lynne, various engineers and others. The compilation producer of the Beatles BBC 2 ON AIR, said bluntly in Billboard magazine last month, there was a top secret Beatles archival project, but he was not allowed to talk about it.. Whether Now in then is included in what he was alluding to I don't know.

 

We have so far to my knowledge, the Beatles BBC2, the Capitol albums reissue, the Let It Be Movie on DVD BluRay, the reissue of the Love album (God know why?) and a video version of the Beatles ONE album with 25-30 official videos, comprising roughly the songs from the one album all on video. (though sadly) that doesn't include a lot of great Beatles videos like Strawberry Fields, Hey Bulldog, and mostly Lennon songs that were technically B sides as well as a couple nice Harrison songs like For You Blue… We also supposedly have the Beatles on the cover of Time magazine, a special segment in next months Grammy's and an entire Anniversary special on CBS network, all this to celebrate the Beatles 50th in the USA. I am always happy to purchase something cool from the Beatles, haven't seen anything cool since The remasters, and the Anthology, crap like LIB Naked, Love, have a few interesting tracks, but are mostly money bleeders. Hopefully Now and then will finally see its day ad sound great! Its not a new Beatles reunion under false pretenses, it is just finally getting to hear the third reunion song, I'd be keen to hear the fourth song composed by McCartney/Harrison as well if possible. There is also a Harrison recording Olivia Harrison asked McCartney to finish a couple years ago. I wouldn't consider that song a Beatles song, I'm sure that would be released as a solo Harrison with guest star Paul McCartney, and rightly so. Fingers crossed, I'm tired of all this merchandising crap from the record companies, just give me the Beatles videos, Let it Be on DVD, the few remaining unreleased songs, like Now and then and Carnival Of Light, and the more interesting alternate takes like The long Helter Skelter, the totally different version of Fixing A Hole, the Beatles demos, like the White Album Demos, the Beatles Christmas Album, the Beatles Decca Audition, just nice sounding copies of all that stuff, all released over a year or two, and get it over with, then just manufacture a new printing or pressing once every five or ten years, and that it. These record company jerks wanna bleed people and release this stuff in perpetuity, offering one new song every ten years from the archives, honestly the old ripoff bootleggers offered more value than Universal Apple, at least the Bootleggers just put out what they had when they had it. The people in charge of the archives are so tight with it, I've begun to actually hate them as human beings. Just let me buy the stuff thats never been booted and thats it.

19 December 2013
9.29pm
trcanberra
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So, the boots are out – at least the first batch.  Rumours persist on numerous sites of a new Anthology early next year.  Anyone heard any more news or have an opinion if the boots were it?

23 December 2013
4.36pm
Joe
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I've not heard about a new Anthology, though I understand the original three are to be remastered and reissued. The director's cut of the documentary also got removed from YouTube when I last looked, so I wouldn't be surprised if there's a Blu-ray version with extra footage.

If there was a Vol 3, it would be a good opportunity to release Carnival Of Light and that long Helter Skelter. Neither are apparently worth getting too excited over, but putting them out as part of a bigger release might soften the blow a little.

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26 December 2013
11.34pm
whobeatle
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Joe said
I've not heard about a new Anthology, though I understand the original three are to be remastered and reissued. The director's cut of the documentary also got removed from YouTube when I last looked, so I wouldn't be surprised if there's a Blu-ray version with extra footage.
If there was a Vol 3, it would be a good opportunity to release Carnival Of Light and that long Helter Skelter. Neither are apparently worth getting too excited over, but putting them out as part of a bigger release might soften the blow a little.

there are quite a few bonus tracks they could use Joe beyond the two you mentioned

26 December 2013
11.52pm
meanmistermustard
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There are a number of tracks that were on the early rumoured track listings for the Anthologies back in the 90's, maybe we will finally see those. 

I do wonder how they would package an Anthology 4 considering the first three were three individual parts of one complete series – and didn't George Martin say something to the effect that what was released was the best of what there was thereby suggesting the rest wasn't that great? Beatles fans obviously know that is garbage but surely some of the media would pick up on that and reflect the question back on Apple: "if it wasn't good enough for release back in 1995/96 then why is it now?".

"Well, probably we'll sell less records, less people'll go to see the film, we'll write less songs, and we'll all die of failure" (John Lennon 8/64)
27 December 2013
11.44pm
whobeatle
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meanmistermustard said

Oh Man! Merry Christmas! We all want some different stuff, I want a finished Now and Then, Carnival Of Light, you want something else, but here is the real question. What the heck are they working on. What is this secret archive project gonna be!!!!!!!

 

There are a number of tracks that were on the early rumoured track listings for the Anthologies back in the 90's, maybe we will finally see those. 

I do wonder how they would package an Anthology 4 considering the first three were three individual parts of one complete series – and didn't George Martin say something to the effect that what was released was the best of what there was thereby suggesting the rest wasn't that great? Beatles fans obviously know that is garbage but surely some of the media would pick up on that and reflect the question back on Apple: "if it wasn't good enough for release back in 1995/96 then why is it now?".

 

27 December 2013
11.49pm
whobeatle
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Let's play detective, This has been bizarre, this whole last year, they have released a lot of stuff, BBC2. Bootleg 63, Capitol albums, and I forget, now we from Wogblog, and he's been right so far, he says, The Promo music videos, Everybody is sayin Let it Be on DVD in the next 6-18 months… a reissue of LOVE.. We know they intend to package some kind of Live album or live video.. What's left, I can't figure anything but some kind of Anthology type thing. But they already did that. So would they make a big Anthology rerelease with 40-50 new tracks, some new mixes on Free As A Bird.. What the heck could it be…Smells like Anthology 4, but they would call it something else, and somehow justify it, whatever it is, instead of just expanding the Anthology…. Any rumors, thoughts, discoveries?

7 January 2014
12.09am
trcanberra
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whobeatle said
Let's play detective, This has been bizarre, this whole last year, they have released a lot of stuff, BBC2. Bootleg 63, Capitol albums, and I forget, now we from Wogblog, and he's been right so far, he says, The Promo music videos, Everybody is sayin Let it Be on DVD in the next 6-18 months… a reissue of LOVE.. We know they intend to package some kind of Live album or live video.. What's left, I can't figure anything but some kind of Anthology type thing. But they already did that. So would they make a big Anthology rerelease with 40-50 new tracks, some new mixes on Free As A Bird.. What the heck could it be…Smells like Anthology 4, but they would call it something else, and somehow justify it, whatever it is, instead of just expanding the Anthology…. Any rumors, thoughts, discoveries?

Not so far – but I still find it hard to believe that the Howlett 'slip' was just the 1963 bootlegs, so keep on looking everyone!!  :)

 

7 January 2014
12.14am
AppleScruffJunior
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"A reissue of LOVE"

Bollocks I just bought it that's 68p gone down the drain a-hard-days-night-george-10
Although evidence just suggest something to do with LOVE is coming out, all professional and official videos of full performances from the show have been taken down (I do miss my weekly dose of their adaptation of "A Day In The Life"). Also the documentary about the show "All Together Now" has been taken down as well :/

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