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The most disliked Beatle (by society, not Beatlemaniacs)
30 September 2013
12.17am
Sky999
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cbatcu said
Sorry, boys. This just isn't going to get you any brownie points with the religious nuts. Nice try.

Aww…ahdn_paul_01heart

30 September 2013
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On the supposed hypocrisy of wealthy celebrities who preach New Agey anti-materialism, I think it depends on what exactly you're preaching.  If you're preaching merely the common sense that materialism can be bad and that we all need to try to be less selfish, then the wealthy celebrity's lifestyle is not so cognitively dissonant from the sermon he's preaching.  But if his sermon is more radical, it begins to set up a cognitive dissonance.  I think there is some merit to those who feel George Harrison and, for example, Carlos Santana, are (were) indulging in a bit of hypocrisy in this regard. 

It's not like it's physically impossible or completely unheard-of to give up your wealth and live a simple life -- many individuals do it and have done if to for centuries in India (not to mention also medieval Europe under the inspiration of Christianity).  Sure, it's enormously difficult, and it's understandable for any person to opt out of such a major sacrifice.  But if that's the case, then don't over-inflate your spirituality with your words.  Dial down the sermon to fit more accurately the reality of your lifestyle.  Would that be so difficult?  Apparently it is, for those who want to have their cake and eat it too…

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2 October 2013
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Did they build it? or did we? Guess you really can't separate the two.

2 October 2013
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Funny Paper said
George has a couple of times been criticized for being a bit hypocritical about his New Agey spirituality whilst living a materialistic wealthy lifestyle.  An essay written in National Review magazine shortly after his death was one example of this criticism (I can't remember who wrote it…)

I agree with BeatleManiac's bafflement about how people could dislike the Beatles; but I have met a couple of people who actually dislike Beatles music.  To me, that's at least as preposterous (if not more so) as disliking a pleasant breeze on a sunny day.

I used to claim that I disliked Beatles music.  It was mainly because of certain songs by Paul that I thought were silly, insubstantial, overrated, and overplayed…on commercials, in the grocery store, everywhere you went, there they were…so I associated The Beatles with commercialism and silly pop songs.  I knew this wasn't 100% true, because I had heard Let It Be, and I liked certain songs off that album.  But still, my overall impression was that The Beatles were light and fluffy.

Then I heard the whole catalogue in chronological order and I changed my opinion.  Now I love all of it.

 

"This Beatles talk bores me to death." --John Lennon

2 October 2013
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cbatcu said
^^You've got the right idea, sky090909. I think you can imagine. Reading those books is a gateway in to the occult.

There is nothing wrong with the occult.  It's black magic you have to worry about.  For example, John and Yoko were into the occult (Theosophy, Tarot, Astrology, Numerology) but they didn't practice black magic.  A lot of people confuse the two.  Still others confuse the occult with cults.  Occultism is about self-exploration, while cults are about mind control and obedience.

Actually, let me qualify my comment about the Lennons and black magic.  You might say that they were practicing black magic when they had a spell cast on the McCartneys so that misfortune would befall them and they wouldn't make it to their favorite hotel suite in Japan and "ruin its karma."  Of course, I don't know if this story is true, but it's reported in Seaman's book.  Supposedly they had the spell cast, and then rejoiced when he was arrested for marijuana possession.

"This Beatles talk bores me to death." --John Lennon

2 October 2013
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Expert Textpert said

cbatcu said
^^You've got the right idea, sky090909. I think you can imagine. Reading those books is a gateway in to the occult.

There is nothing wrong with the occult.  It's black magic you have to worry about.  For example, John and Yoko were into the occult (Theosophy, Tarot, Astrology, Numerology) but they didn't practice black magic.  A lot of people confuse the two.  Still others confuse the occult with cults.  Occultism is about self-exploration, while cults are about mind control and obedience.

Actually, let me qualify my comment about the Lennons and black magic.  You might say that they were practicing black magic when they had a spell cast on the McCartneys so that misfortune would befall them and they wouldn't make it to their favorite hotel suite in Japan and "ruin its karma."  Of course, I don't know if this story is true, but it's reported in Seaman's book.  Supposedly they had the spell cast, and then rejoiced when he was arrested for marijuana possession.

I was taught that all of those thing you mentioned in the parentheses were evil. Reading your daily horoscope in the newspaper lands you in Hell for eternity. Never set out to explore yourself because you are nothing but filthy rags. Make sure that you die so that Jesus can live through you (there's some verse in Galations that goes with that idea). Yeah, I was in deep.

2 October 2013
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cbatcu said

Expert Textpert said

cbatcu said
^^You've got the right idea, sky090909. I think you can imagine. Reading those books is a gateway in to the occult.

There is nothing wrong with the occult.  It's black magic you have to worry about.  For example, John and Yoko were into the occult (Theosophy, Tarot, Astrology, Numerology) but they didn't practice black magic.  A lot of people confuse the two.  Still others confuse the occult with cults.  Occultism is about self-exploration, while cults are about mind control and obedience.

Actually, let me qualify my comment about the Lennons and black magic.  You might say that they were practicing black magic when they had a spell cast on the McCartneys so that misfortune would befall them and they wouldn't make it to their favorite hotel suite in Japan and "ruin its karma."  Of course, I don't know if this story is true, but it's reported in Seaman's book.  Supposedly they had the spell cast, and then rejoiced when he was arrested for marijuana possession.

I was taught that all of those thing you mentioned in the parentheses were evil. Reading your daily horoscope in the newspaper lands you in Hell for eternity. Never set out to explore yourself because you are nothing but filthy rags. Make sure that you die so that Jesus can live through you (there's some verse in Galations that goes with that idea). Yeah, I was in deep.

Yeah, the word occult just means "hidden."  Jesus practiced the occult when he gave secret teachings to his disciples, and said "to you I have given the secrets of the kingdom, but to the masses, I speak in parables."

"This Beatles talk bores me to death." --John Lennon

2 October 2013
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^^ I wouldn't have been able to believe you back then. I was in a stranglehold.

2 October 2013
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cbatcu said
^^ I wouldn't have been able to believe you back then. I was in a stranglehold.

Haha…well I shouldn't derail the thread, but I know a lot about the occult.

"This Beatles talk bores me to death." --John Lennon

2 October 2013
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Expert Textpert said

Funny Paper said
George has a couple of times been criticized for being a bit hypocritical about his New Agey spirituality whilst living a materialistic wealthy lifestyle.  An essay written in National Review magazine shortly after his death was one example of this criticism (I can't remember who wrote it…)
I agree with BeatleManiac's bafflement about how people could dislike the Beatles; but I have met a couple of people who actually dislike Beatles music.  To me, that's at least as preposterous (if not more so) as disliking a pleasant breeze on a sunny day.

I used to claim that I disliked Beatles music.  It was mainly because of certain songs by Paul that I thought were silly, insubstantial, overrated, and overplayed…on commercials, in the grocery store, everywhere you went, there they were…so I associated The Beatles with commercialism and silly pop songs.  I knew this wasn't 100% true, because I had heard Let It Be, and I liked certain songs off that album.  But still, my overall impression was that The Beatles were light and fluffy.

Then I heard the whole catalogue in chronological order and I changed my opinion.  Now I love all of it.

 

My husband was the same way before he met me. He liked a few Beatles songs, but he thought they were over commercialized and fluffy (he is more of a metal head). I think a lot of people think this way about The Beatles. For some reason, people seem to forget the more progressive stuff or don't know about it and always talk about the early pop years or stuff like Yellow Sub; furthermore, it is because this they can't see how The Beatles changed the world.ahdn_paul_01

 

cbatcu said

Expert Textpert said

cbatcu said
^^You've got the right idea, sky090909. I think you can imagine. Reading those books is a gateway in to the occult.

There is nothing wrong with the occult.  It's black magic you have to worry about.  For example, John and Yoko were into the occult (Theosophy, Tarot, Astrology, Numerology) but they didn't practice black magic.  A lot of people confuse the two.  Still others confuse the occult with cults.  Occultism is about self-exploration, while cults are about mind control and obedience.

Actually, let me qualify my comment about the Lennons and black magic.  You might say that they were practicing black magic when they had a spell cast on the McCartneys so that misfortune would befall them and they wouldn't make it to their favorite hotel suite in Japan and "ruin its karma."  Of course, I don't know if this story is true, but it's reported in Seaman's book.  Supposedly they had the spell cast, and then rejoiced when he was arrested for marijuana possession.

I was taught that all of those thing you mentioned in the parentheses were evil. Reading your daily horoscope in the newspaper lands you in Hell for eternity. Never set out to explore yourself because you are nothing but filthy rags. Make sure that you die so that Jesus can live through you (there's some verse in Galations that goes with that idea). Yeah, I was in deep.

Horoscopes, really? Horoscopes are just poppycock. 

2 October 2013
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I'm not a religious nut, I once had a faith but things happened yaddie yaddie yah so its not burning bright. Anyway, when its says die to self it means let God live thru you, put your trust in him, so horoscopes and all that would be looking elsewhere (no other gods or false idols) for guidance is unnecessary so why bother. It wasnt right but I never heard you would burn in hell forever if you did tho. Maybe I was one of the lightweights.

Maybe we shouldn't be discussing this as religion can get very heavy very quickly and lead to all kinds of fiery confrontations and arguments and nobody wants that.

We should add however that Manson took scripture from Revelation 9 (Revolution 9) as a sign that the Beatles were the messengers to show the way which led to the Tate murders. Now there was someone who took it all too far.

"Well, probably we'll sell less records, less people'll go to see the film, we'll write less songs, and we'll all die of failure" (John Lennon 8/64)
2 October 2013
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Astrology is straight out of the Bible.  The book of Genesis says that God put the stars in the sky to serve as signs.  The twelve tribes of Israel  and the twelve apostles represent the twelve signs of the zodiac.  The symbols of the four gospel writers (and of the four banners of Israel) are the animals that represent the fixed signs of the zodiac (the bull, the man, the eagle, and the lion are Taurus, Aquarius, Scorpio and Leo).

But yeah we should stop before we argue.

"This Beatles talk bores me to death." --John Lennon

2 October 2013
8.22pm
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meanmistermustard said

Maybe we shouldn't be discussing this as religion can get very heavy very quickly and lead to all kinds of fiery confrontations and arguments and nobody wants that.

If anyone is concerned, I've not gotten upset over any of this conversation. However, I think you're right, MMM, about not having really big religious fiery conversations/confrontations on the forum. Wise man you are!

2 October 2013
9.11pm
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cbatcu said

meanmistermustard said

Maybe we shouldn't be discussing this as religion can get very heavy very quickly and lead to all kinds of fiery confrontations and arguments and nobody wants that.

If anyone is concerned, I've not gotten upset over any of this conversation. However, I think you're right, MMM, about not having really big religious fiery conversations/confrontations on the forum. Wise man you are!

 

It was more a general comment since religious discussions can flame quickly and before you know it there are pages and pages of intense dialogue which gets very tedious very quickly when reading it. Far worse than who sang those damn ahhhs. Glad nobody here is upset by any of this.apple01heart

"Well, probably we'll sell less records, less people'll go to see the film, we'll write less songs, and we'll all die of failure" (John Lennon 8/64)
3 October 2013
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Expert Textpert said

cbatcu said
^^ I wouldn't have been able to believe you back then. I was in a stranglehold.

Haha…well I shouldn't derail the thread, but I know a lot about the occult.

 

What are your thoughts on that "Truth Contest" theory?  Someone here a few months ago posted a link to it (though interestingly it seems to have vanished), and at the time I went over and read a bit of it.  Later, the poster "SatanHimself" wrote:

'Timothy Leary, in a widely quoted assessment of the same period, declared that the band [i.e., the Beatles] were prototypes of "evolutionary agents sent by God, endowed with mysterious powers to create a new human species".'

And at the time, I commented that this is essentially what that "Truth Contest" guy is saying about the Beatles (though on a more "spiritual" plane, and I don't think he goes so far with that "new human species" thing).

That "Truth Contest" essay about the Beatles:

http://www.truthcontest.com/entries/the-present-universal-truth/beatles.html

I have already weighed in about this before, but my response along with the original mention of the "Truth Contest" seems to have vanished here on Beatles Bible (I don't know if that reflects an ideological concern, or it was just a technical accident).

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3 October 2013
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Funny Paper said

I have already weighed in about this before, but my response along with the original mention of the "Truth Contest" seems to have vanished here on Beatles Bible (I don't know if that reflects an ideological concern, or it was just a technical accident).

It may have been a technical accident. There's no ideological concern from my point of view.

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3 October 2013
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Funny Paper said

Expert Textpert said

cbatcu said
^^ I wouldn't have been able to believe you back then. I was in a stranglehold.

Haha…well I shouldn't derail the thread, but I know a lot about the occult.

 

What are your thoughts on that "Truth Contest" theory?  Someone here a few months ago posted a link to it (though interestingly it seems to have vanished), and at the time I went over and read a bit of it.  Later, the poster "SatanHimself" wrote:

'Timothy Leary, in a widely quoted assessment of the same period, declared that the band [i.e., the Beatles] were prototypes of "evolutionary agents sent by God, endowed with mysterious powers to create a new human species".'

And at the time, I commented that this is essentially what that "Truth Contest" guy is saying about the Beatles (though on a more "spiritual" plane, and I don't think he goes so far with that "new human species" thing).

That "Truth Contest" essay about the Beatles:

http://www.truthcontest.com/entries/the-present-universal-truth/beatles.html

I have already weighed in about this before, but my response along with the original mention of the "Truth Contest" seems to have vanished here on Beatles Bible (I don't know if that reflects an ideological concern, or it was just a technical accident).

I read that web page, and I can say that while I think the man's approach is a little exaggerated, and he comes off as a bit crazy, I believe there is a kernel of truth in his basic premise.  He could have said it in a more intellectual way and refrained from making it sound religious, and gotten the same truth across.

I think the most true thing he says is this:  "I am not saying their music was better. I liked the music before they came better, but they were better; it was the whole package. The Beatles were a force of nature, and all us kids were just swept away." 

I think this is true because I sincerely believe The Beatles have a vibe, and until you tune into that vibe, you don't get the music. I think you have to listen to The Beatles in a receptive state to be uplifted.  That is what happened to me.  One night I was listening to "Rock And Roll Music Vol. 1" on the turntable and I suddenly wanted to buy everything by The Beatles, starting with the remastered box set of CD's.  It was because of a vibe that made me feel good.  It wasn't about the music being better than other music. And I haven't stopped listening since.  And, lo and behold, I now believe they are better than most music that is being released today.  I have pretty much stopped following most new bands.

Also, I thought that this was pretty insightful and had never thought of it that way: "The kids of today have to realize all rock and roll is their music. They have their new music and all the rock and roll that came before, because it was all made by young people their age." 

I think he takes things a little too far with putting them on the same level as The Bible and talking about a second coming. The person who wrote this is probably a really tuned-in guy with slight tendencies toward what most would call "mental illness."  Again, not to say that he didn't make some very good points, especially about spiritual messages in the music (again, he takes this too far, interpreting songs like scriptures) and The Beatles' tapping into the collective unconscious.  I think The Beatles were aware that people looked to their music for spiritual guidance.

One more thing that I will say:  I think it's commendable that the author of these writings is trying to explain the universal appeal of The Beatles and why kids of today still love them.  I think we need more of that.

 

"This Beatles talk bores me to death." --John Lennon

3 October 2013
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FP, was that comment posted here? I don't remember deleting it and, besides, I know I wouldn't have done anyway. Must be a site glitch.

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3 October 2013
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Funny Paper said

I have already weighed in about this before, but my response along with the original mention of the "Truth Contest" seems to have vanished here on Beatles Bible (I don't know if that reflects an ideological concern, or it was just a technical accident).

I believe this may be the thread you're talking about.

http://www.beatlesbible.com/fo…..st/#p77986

Still there, complete with your comments, just several pages down (pg 5 at this time), and not easy to search as OP made "Truth Contest" one word.

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3 October 2013
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Thanks Joe, and thanks mja -- I didn't even think of searching for "truthcontest" without a space!

ExpertTexpert, thanks for your detailed response.  I pretty much agree.  There is a "phenomenal" aspect to the Beatles that seems to transcend merely materialist explanations, but what mythological language one uses to denote that is where one has to be careful.  The writer of that "truth contest" seems a bit too glib with his symbolisms I think.

If the Beatles were sort of "conduits" of a cultural revolution; and if that cultural revolution involves a "pagan" revival in more or less conscious rebellion against Judaeo-Christian symbolisms, then I think one cannot fault Christians too much for perceiving a threat.  I mean, why is it fair for one side to rebel and fight (even if that rebellion is dressed up in "love" and "peace" and flowers), but as soon as the other side defends itself, it's suddenly the bad guy?  The answer seems to be a tendentious one:  "Christians are wrong and bad, therefore they have no right to fight back in the war of ideas." But this is being obscured by the disingenuous attempt to frame it as "Christians are wrong and bad because they are not fighting fairly."  That's putting the cart before the horse, imo.  This reversal of order is emotionally based on a historical story that has become part of the narrative of the post-modern West:  "Well, Christians mistreated us freethinkers for centuries; now it's our turn to get back!"  Oh great, so a tribalistic tit-for-tat is supposed to be all high and lofty now?

Etc.

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