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The Lennon vs McCartney debate
17 June 2011
5.30am
Till There Was You
:^)
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I was just pointing out that that was what Gniknus was trying to point out. Paul's "CoL" was in 1967, if I am correct, a whole year earlier than The Beatles came out. He probably was more diverse at an earlier time than John because he was exposed to music earlier than John was. That's my assumption, at least.

I salute the lady who screamed "I love you Paul!" at a tribute band's concert.
17 June 2011
6.05am
MeanMrsMustard
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And @kedame: 

It's not that the Beatles Rant is a bad idea, or that it "isn't cool," or whatever. It's a cool idea in concept, and the fans are just as hardcore as we are, but I just think that the place is more negative, while the Forum is (or tries to be) more positive. I've read through the thing, and the only poster I really like is amaz0n_princess. They focus more on what a**holes the Beatles were IRL. Some may think that it's a delusion, but I'd rather focus on the amazing music of the Beatles than the total idiocy of the Beatles as people. And it seems like they focus more on the Beatles as jerks than the Beatles as amazing musicians, which is what this thread is going for in the first place. 

If I seem to act unkind, it's only me, it's not my mind that is confusing things.

17 June 2011
6.25am
mithveaen
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Actually speaking of the idiotic Beatle fans, that's why I'm not part of any other Beatle forum. Trust me, I have gone to some and they're just boooring. Another reason to love this place. heart

 

Now.. Mith... stay-on-topic

Here comes the sun….. Scoobie-doobie…… Something in the way she moves…..attracts me like a cauliflower… Bop. Bop, cat bop. Go, Johnny, Go. Beware of Darkness…  I believe in SH...
17 June 2011
8.32pm
mr. Sun king coming together
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paulsbass said:

HE was the one willing to take artistical risks, when John just didn't care.

 

One thing that is great about Paul is that he was able to take extremely avantgardistic stuff and turn it into something that's totally accessible to main stream listeners.

1. I don't think John didn't take risks, but Paul certainly was the first to take these risks (as you state earlier and later in that post).

2. Exactly. I'm not a fan of the avant garde (Revolution 9 is interesting, but not enjoyable), but I like tape loops. The reason? Sir Paul McCartney

I tried to think of something powerful and moving… and failed.  "You were given a choice between war and dishonor - you chose dishonor, and you shall have war" - Winston Churchill
17 June 2011
10.33pm
MeanMrsMustard
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paulsbass said:

Before explaining more let me add that I don't feel his Sgt. Peppers idea crashed and burned, it worked in the way that the concept of hiding behind a fake identity gave them the opportunity to artistically go over the top as much as they wanted.

OK, that makes more sense. I'm just one who'd like to listen to the original "concert" Pepper. :D 

If I seem to act unkind, it's only me, it's not my mind that is confusing things.

18 June 2011
6.01am
GniknuS
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Well this is why I don't think these arguments work because one side always thinks that the other is trying to take something away from it. I'm not saying Paul wasn't experimental, but it was usually on John's songs, and remember Paul didn't even want to include Wild Honey Pie on the White Album.
Here's my point, it's one thing to be experimental, which clearly Paul was/is, but to have the nerve to put something out there that never really was done before on YOUR OWN track is another. It's easy to think 'oh how great that song is' now, but think about it back then when there were no songs like that.
So that's what I think, no song you could bring up of Paul's could possibly compare to a Walrus in terms of putting yourself out there as a musician.
Mith brought up a great point about Paul bring the commercial one of the Beatles and I view that as an absolutely crucial role that Paul played, he never let the Beatles stray too far from their fans. I've never thought about it, but maybe Paul was inhibited as a musician by playing that role, I mean think about George going all Eastern and John getting all freaky with Yoko, it was really up to Paul to keep the Beatles sort of in the loop. That's why I love the White Album, there's such a "oh fuck it" type attitude from all of them.
Btw Sun King, I thought you were calling me uninformed, which I certainly am not, so I think we just had a breakdown of…communication. Always the same.

I sat on a rug, biding my time, drinking her wine
18 June 2011
11.50am
mr. Sun king coming together
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I don't think he was so "commercial," I mean look at McCartney. That wasn't close to commercial. Neither is, from what I gather, Carnival Of Light, which he wanted released in 1996.

I tried to think of something powerful and moving… and failed.  "You were given a choice between war and dishonor - you chose dishonor, and you shall have war" - Winston Churchill
18 June 2011
7.14pm
GniknuS
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He was the most commercial like John was the most experimental. I'm not saying that in a bad way, but come on Hello, Goodbye?
Paul's really experimental stuff came after the breakup when he was free of being a Beatle. To me, the biggest reason they broke up is because they were all sort of cast in these Beatle roles, and when John and George tried to break free of those roles, it was really up to Paul to carry the weight of the Beatles because they were expected to be or sound a certain way. John wanted to completely break away from that by bringing in Yoko, but it would have been too much.
So again I'll say, as I did much much earlier in this thread, that Paul was the most valuable Beatle, or MVB. But I am still a John sort of guy, he just has the voice.

I sat on a rug, biding my time, drinking her wine
18 June 2011
7.54pm
mr. Sun king coming together
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Gnik, Paul was still experimental on Beatles tracks, but be never made it SO outthere the fans didn't like it. He was certainly avant-garde (ADITL) and being nostalgic (64), so Paul wasn't only experimental post Beatles. He was the one who said, "Lads, why don't we do something like it's never been before." Not John, not George, not Ringo, Paul. Paul was undoubtably the greatest innovator of the group. (And if I sound like a huge Macca fan, I'm actually not set in my ways. But this is still something I think Macca was better at, innovation.)

I tried to think of something powerful and moving… and failed.  "You were given a choice between war and dishonor - you chose dishonor, and you shall have war" - Winston Churchill
18 June 2011
9.30pm
GniknuS
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Hmm, it depends on your definition of innovation. I would still say it was John who brought in the songs that sparked almost every album, particularly those middle albums with Norwegian Wood, Tomorrow Never Knows and Strawberry Fields. Certainly those songs wouldn't have turned out the way they did without the others wonderful contributions, but still they had to originate somewhere.
But you're right, Paul knew when to reign it in whereas John certainly pushed it too far with Yoko, even though I like most of their freaky stuff.
I'm also not suggesting that experimentation automatically makes you the "better" musician or whatever, I guess I just like seeing musicians sort of naked (not Two Virgins style) but I mean without all the overdubs. That's why I like Anthology 3 so much, it's like seeing Paul McCartney with his pants down and he's quite good.

I sat on a rug, biding my time, drinking her wine
19 June 2011
3.05am
mithveaen
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GniknuS said:

That's why I like Anthology 3 so much, it's like seeing Paul McCartney with his pants down and he's quite good.

Say whaaaaaaaaat?????????????????????? a-hard-days-night-ringo-6

 

*runs to her room to take out from her Beatles Box the Anthology*

 

 

 

(Sorry I couldn't resist) two-virgins

Here comes the sun….. Scoobie-doobie…… Something in the way she moves…..attracts me like a cauliflower… Bop. Bop, cat bop. Go, Johnny, Go. Beware of Darkness…  I believe in SH...
19 June 2011
5.15pm
mithveaen
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Ok double post on this.

 

 I was thinking about it yesterday.... shouldn't be fair to compare John and Paul's careers up to the 80s? Just wondering...

Here comes the sun….. Scoobie-doobie…… Something in the way she moves…..attracts me like a cauliflower… Bop. Bop, cat bop. Go, Johnny, Go. Beware of Darkness…  I believe in SH...
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