The Beatles Breakup | Page 4 | Fab Forum

Introducing the inaugural Fab Forum February Fundraiser! Click here for more details.

Please consider registering
Guest

sp_LogInOut Log In sp_Registration Register

Register | Lost password?
Advanced Search

— Forum Scope —






— Match —





— Forum Options —





Minimum search word length is 4 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters

sp_Feed sp_TopicIcon
The Beatles Breakup
No permission to create posts
1 October 2011
6.52pm
Avatar
peregrine9
California
Royal Command Performance
Forum Posts: 125
Member Since:
10 May 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Ultimate Classic Rock
September 25, 2011
John Lennon Officially Ended the Beatles at Disney World

Leave it to John Lennon to make the Beatles break up official by signing the termination papers while on holiday at Disney World. Lennon, the last of the four to actually sign off on the contract, was the first to shout out “I want a divorce” before he walked out of a meeting at Apple headquarters with the other three members present back in 1969.Both Ringo Starr and George Harrison had already quit by 1968, prior to this incident, yet they were convinced to return, whereas Lennon never did. Then there’s Paul McCartney, the one who publicly announced the news to the press in 1970, declaring, “I’m quitting The Beatles.”After years of red tape and millions of dollars spent, the official dissolution papers were drawn up and ready to be signed off on at the Plaza Hotel in New York in 1974. George and Paul had arranged to fly in and be present, while Ringo signed the necessary documents at an earlier time, while still in England.

http://ultimateclassicrock.com.....at-disney/

Note by Ahhh Girl 31 May 2014: this post originally was a one post thread. The thread title was "John Lennon Officially Ended the Beatles at Disneyworld".

Life is what happens when your busy making other plans.  John Lennon
5 February 2012
8.30pm
Avatar
The Strawberry
The Past
Ed Sullivan Show
Forum Posts: 191
Member Since:
13 November 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Is it just me, or is it true that it wasn't Yoko's fault? John said on TV that when he was 25, he said he did not want to be playing "She Loves You" when he's 30, so it was inevitable that The Beatles would break up. Plus, John probably wanted to be more of a father when Sean was born.

Note by Ahhh Girl 31 May 2014: this post originally was the beginning of a new thread titled "I don't blame Yoko". Posts 63-100 were a part of that thread.

"Time wounds all heels." -John Lennon
5 February 2012
8.57pm
Avatar
cool.story.mum.
in the sky with diamonds
The Cavern Club
Forum Posts: 76
Member Since:
19 January 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
5 February 2012
9.43pm
Avatar
RevolvingPiggies
a place where I can go
Paris Olympia
Forum Posts: 144
Member Since:
22 October 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I don't blame Yoko at all. They would have broken up anyway, Yoko might have just sped it up a little, but it was a small price to pay. Because she made John happy, and if John's happy I'm happy. Have you guys watched the documentary John Lennon- Plastic Ono Band? There's a scene where John writes "John Loves Yoko" in the sand, and they write until the waves wash out the words. I found that very sweet. And I do not hate her as a person either. I don't hate anyone, actually. Even a certain he-who-must-not-be-named-who-is-obsessed-with-Catcher-And-The-Rye- someone. Because we need to love the world, and accept everyone, and that's the only way the world will get better (think about it: if everyone wanted revenge, and they do something to someone, that someone's brother or something will have revenge, and whoever they had revenge's on friend will have revenge... etc. It needs to stop somewhere). There shouldn't be death penalties either, because then the last thing they'd feel is hate, and whoever ordered the sentence is no better than the murderer. Wow. Sorry. Off-topic. 

The only thing I have against Yoko is that she could have kept the others as happy while keeping John happy at the same timeheart

I am very happy, and one reason is because I have The Beatles. Thank you!!!! <3 <3 <3 <3
5 February 2012
9.46pm
Avatar
meanmistermustard
Moderator



Forum Posts: 17171
Member Since:
1 May 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

George was having a laugh, nothing more in that video cool.story.mom.

 

Its been said that Yoko blocked a call from Paul to John during the Double Fantasy sessions whilst John was more at peace with whole Beatles thing. However I think George would probably have been a bigger hinderence to any reunion as he didnt want to go back to the whole hysteria which would have immediately blown into a hurricane.

Don’t make your love suffer insecurities, trade the baggage of self to set another one free. ('Paper Skin' - Kendall Payne)
5 February 2012
11.13pm
Avatar
GniknuS
Rain? I don't mind
Apple rooftop
Forum Posts: 1332
Member Since:
1 May 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I don't think it's Yoko's fault, but I would call her the main reason as to why they broke up. I sincerely doubt that she set out to break up the Beatles, but the way John's mindset shifted after they got together is ultimately the reason why they broke up. I think we're just being polite when we mention the other reasons, sure Paul was bossy and Apple was put of control and George probably wanted and deserved more of an input. But when you're talking about the biggest and most successful band in the world, to have the cajones to step away from that takes someone like Yoko. There is a zero percent chance that eventually George would've left first because nothing was guaranteed and Paul was smart enough to recognize that the group was better together than apart.
So take John who had been supposedly thinking about leaving or the inevitable split since '66, at first he thought it would be like Vegas where he would just perform the old hits, but suddenly Yoko turned him on to this whole other scene of what his life could be like and it seemed pretty obvious that John was looking for any excuse to leave. Take the quote from John, "I've had two creative partners,
Paul McCartney and Yoko Ono." That to me is more telling than anything else and had the Beatles accepted Yoko as part of the group they most likely would have stayed together longer. I am tending to believe that it was a bit sexist of the others to be so dismissive of her. Sure, her music sucks, but she is a very smart person who had a lot of interesting ideas and for the others to completely ignore her input and at the same time have the mindset that "the girlfriends and wives generally stay at home" seems ridiculous to me. But it's hard to imagine what she and John were like together so maybe it was more about that than just about Yoko, but still...there's that one scene in Let it Be where you see John walk in and George is smiling at him while playing Octopus's Garden and then his head just darts down when he sees Yoko and he won't even acknowledge her presence. Call it bad vibes all you want, but something else was going on there.
Anyway, I think it was mostly because of the dynamic between how much John loved Yoko and how much the others seemed to despise her that caused the split. So not directly her fault but she still was the main cog.

I sat on a rug, biding my time, drinking her wine
6 February 2012
1.50am
Avatar
robert
Shea Stadium
Forum Posts: 415
Member Since:
19 April 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

For me, I won't say I "blame Yoko" however, I do see her as the single greatest reason they split up and why they never got back together.

In terms of the break-up, what Yoko did was get John hooked on heroin. John's heroin addiction is what made impossible for the others to communicate with him. Paul mentions this in one of his interviews - how John was on heroin and no one could deal with him.

We talk about how John and Paul feuded, but remember that during the Let It Be filming there was an argument so bad between John and George that it's speculated as to whether they actually came to blows over this. That is when George walked out and John talked about replacing George with Eric Clapton.

Point being, John's heroin addiction, which was on and off again all through the 70's, was a result of Yoko. So she is, to me, the single greatest factor in the break up.

Regarding a reunion, there's no doubt Yoko kept John and Paul apart - specifically during the recording of Paul's "Venus And Mars" and during the "Double Fantasy" sessions.

Consider, when John was in LA during the 18 months, he saw both Paul and George. When did he not see them? When he was with Yoko.

One man's opinion.

"She looks more like him than I do."
6 February 2012
3.32am
Avatar
kedame
Miles above you
Candlestick Park
Forum Posts: 530
Member Since:
23 January 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

GniknuS said:

 That to me is more telling than anything else and had the Beatles accepted Yoko as part of the group they most likely would have stayed together longer. I am tending to believe that it was a bit sexist of the others to be so dismissive of her. Sure, her music sucks, but she is a very smart person who had a lot of interesting ideas and for the others to completely ignore her input and at the same time have the mindset that "the girlfriends and wives generally stay at home" seems ridiculous to me. But it's hard to imagine what she and John were like together so maybe it was more about that than just about Yoko, but still...there's that one scene in Let it Be where you see John walk in and George is smiling at him while playing Octopus's Garden and then his head just darts down when he sees Yoko and he won't even acknowledge her presence. Call it bad vibes all you want, but something else was going on there.

I don't see it that way at all. I don't think it was the fact that she was a woman so much as the fact that they didn't want someone else in the group. Paul wasn't offended that John asked Yoko to perform that line on Bungalow Bill because she was a woman. He was offended because HE was John's musical partner, HE was a singer in The Beatles...not Yoko. To have a completely new and unfamiliar presence inflicted on you in your working environment that you don't really like, replacing things you used to do (being John's creative partner) would sting, no matter how you look at it, especially someonw with a nice big ego who was used to things going his way We saw the same thing with Stu. Paul didn't like Stu, not only because he was a crappy bass player (sorry minime), but because he took John's attention away from the band and his partnership with Paul.

The Beatles always respected female musical acts. Hell, most of their early covers were of girl bands. Paul even produced women (Mary Hopkins, etc.). I just think they didn't want Yoko there.

I agree that Yoko played a major role in the break-up. I think it's foolish to say she didn't. I'm not saying I think she's evil incarnate for it, either. John used her as a means to drive a wedge between the band. He knew what he was doing, trying to reassert his control by introducing a new member. In the Slate article about John and Paul's partnership, the author says John never lost the mentality that it was HIS band, meaning he could introduce or kick out anybody he wanted (enter Paul, enter Stu, kick out that one dude [Pete Shotten, I think] by breaking a washboard over his head). He thought he could just make the others accept Yoko as an equal presence, when really, why should they? They were a Pop/Rock band, not an avant-garde artist's plaything. Yoko, despite her forays into...ahh, music...is no Pop/Rock mastermind. She has creativity and artistic drive, but should it have manifested itself in giving seasoned rockers vocal and instrumentation directions. Not from my point of view, and certainly, I'm guessing, not Paul's or George's, either. They took their music quite seriously, I think. They didn't want someone messing with that dynamic.

Now, I know a counter argument could be that George was perfectly willing to let Billy Preston be a potential fifth member. However, Billy WAS a seasoned rocker himself. He wasn't trying to change the COMPLETE creative direction of the band...not that I think that Yoko could, really. But on her suggestion, John could. He could be difficult, wanting to perform only his material and nothing the others had written, as we see with some of his non-involvement in George's later work and his almost refusal to even have his songs on the same side as Paul's on Abbey Road. He lost faith in the pop/rock dream they had. He looked down on it as being "less" than the experimentation he was doing with Yoko. Like somehow political songs are ultimately superior to a song about holding someone's hand. I think he became a music snob for awhile. Hehe...something he had worked against as a kid, but fell into as an adult.

You can't stay a band if you don't agree on what good music is. And Yoko's opinions colored John's perceptions. I'm not saying it was for the better or worse...just that she did.

Personally, I'm glad things played out the way they did. We have this great little self-contained band who can never produce shitty music to tarnish their images, along with some pretty damn good solo material from all four of them. And they got to have their nice little families and be happy (mostly). I'm ok with that, though I do wish it had come without so much anguish and pain between the four of them.

"You can manicure a cat but can you caticure a man?" John Lennon- Skywriting by Word of Mouth
6 February 2012
4.26am
Avatar
GniknuS
Rain? I don't mind
Apple rooftop
Forum Posts: 1332
Member Since:
1 May 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

That's true, I suppose I'm not trying to label them as being sexist, but I just think there's an attitude that a group of guys have when they've been together. I don't think that they would have accepted Joni f-ing Mitchell into the group if she strolled through the door who obviously had a much different style than the group but who was someone that they undoubtedly could have learned from. So I just think it's that attitude of being hung up on this idea of this band that they had to be that caused the main problem at least from John's perspective. They were tapped out creatively in terms of working together and expanding music but seemed to keep this false hope that things could get back to what they once were. At the same time they were not flexible enough to accomodate John's newfound perspective as a musician because it didn't fit in with this false image they had of themselves. So the only way they could have continued would have been to rapidily change who they were as a group by following John's lead down a much more experimental road. I'm
not upset that this didn't happen, just curious I suppose at what could have been.
So I guess you have the inhibition of being the Beatles matched against not wanting to expand too much, but if you look at it their best stuff was always more experimental without crossing into that awful range of being too psychadelic. I think they could have worked with Yoko in order to combine these two polar opposites. But I sincerely doubt that anyone involved wanted this to happen, including John and Yoko.

I sat on a rug, biding my time, drinking her wine
6 February 2012
8.36am
Avatar
The Strawberry
The Past
Ed Sullivan Show
Forum Posts: 191
Member Since:
13 November 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
6 February 2012
5.21pm
Avatar
kedame
Miles above you
Candlestick Park
Forum Posts: 530
Member Since:
23 January 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

GniknuS said:

That's true, I suppose I'm not trying to label them as being sexist, but I just think there's an attitude that a group of guys have when they've been together. I don't think that they would have accepted Joni f-ing Mitchell into the group if she strolled through the door who obviously had a much different style than the group but who was someone that they undoubtedly could have learned from. So I just think it's that attitude of being hung up on this idea of this band that they had to be that caused the main problem at least from John's perspective. They were tapped out creatively in terms of working together and expanding music but seemed to keep this false hope that things could get back to what they once were. At the same time they were not flexible enough to accomodate John's newfound perspective as a musician because it didn't fit in with this false image they had of themselves. So the only way they could have continued would have been to rapidily change who they were as a group by following John's lead down a much more experimental road. I'm
not upset that this didn't happen, just curious I suppose at what could have been.
So I guess you have the inhibition of being the Beatles matched against not wanting to expand too much, but if you look at it their best stuff was always more experimental without crossing into that awful range of being too psychadelic. I think they could have worked with Yoko in order to combine these two polar opposites. But I sincerely doubt that anyone involved wanted this to happen, including John and Yoko.

I totally understand what you're saying here. It's like the Battle of the Sexes. A group of women probably wouldn't want a man interfering, either, though it would be perceived differently.

And I didn't mean to imply that I think the Beatles weren't slightly sexist. I actually think they were, just not that that was the main reason they didn't like Yoko, though you are probably right in saying it played a part. Like most men raised in the 40s and 50s in their area, they had a certain amount of sexism instilled in them. You see it when Pattie quit her career when she married George, when Cynthia quit her artistic ambitions when she married John, when Maureen stayed home and cooked all the meals for Ringo (though she seemed to enjoy that), and when Paul wanted Jane to give up her career for him (more power to her that she stuck to her guns and didn't listen to him).  

"You can manicure a cat but can you caticure a man?" John Lennon- Skywriting by Word of Mouth
No permission to create posts
Forum Timezone: America/Chicago

Most Users Ever Online: 597

Currently Online: Necko, Into the Sky with Diamonds
35 Guest(s)

Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)

Top Posters:

meanmistermustard: 17152

Ahhh Girl: 10758

Annadog40: 9762

Zig: 7561

parlance: 7092

mr. Sun king coming together: 6980

Mr. Kite: 6092

Silly Girl: 5829

trcanberra: 5549

Ron Nasty: 4950

Member Stats:

Guest Posters: 87

Members: 3335

Moderators: 4

Admins: 2

Forum Stats:

Groups: 3

Forums: 42

Topics: 3816

Posts: 202363

Newest Members:

tom_pw, beatlezoe, nicklav99, pbwriter, leenawilliams

Moderators: Ahhh Girl: 10758, meanmistermustard: 17152, Zig: 7561, Joe: 4392

Administrators: Joe: 4392, Ellie: 3

Members Birthdays
sp_BirthdayIcon
Today: None
Upcoming: DrBeatle