The Beatles Breakup | Page 3 | Yesterday... and today | Fab forum

Please consider registering
Guest

Log In Register

Register | Lost password?
Advanced Search

— Forum Scope —

  
 

— Match —

   

— Forum Options —

   

Minimum search word length is 4 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters

The Beatles Breakup
26 November 2010
5.41pm
skye
AZ
Apple rooftop
Forum Posts: 2287
Member Since:
13 November 2009
Offline
41

Brian's death too, apart from his role as manager.

Ad hoc, ad loc, and quid pro quo! So little time! So much to know!
26 November 2010
6.13pm
Zig
The Toppermost of the Poppermost
Moderator



Forum Posts: 4290
Member Since:
14 April 2010
Offline
42

...and the list goes on and on. That's exactly the point that a lot of us on this Forum are making. It was not all Yoko's fault - if at all.

To the fountain of perpetual mirth, Let it roll for all its worth.

Every Little Thing you buy from Amazon or iTunes will help the Beatles Bible if you use these links: Amazon | iTunes

27 November 2010
4.55am
GniknuS
Rain? I don't mind
Apple rooftop
Forum Posts: 1353
Member Since:
1 May 2010
Offline

I just think there were too many differences. I think if they would have continued it might have been like the White Album in the sense that the other three would just be the backing group for whoever the singer would be. It would have been interesting like we've talked about before, especially if some of John and George's songs were put on the same album. But maybe they just didn't really need each other anymore, they were finally seperate and independent musicians all with very unique styles. It sucks that they really couldn't get back together, maybe they would have had John stayed alive longer, but in the 70's there was just too much ego for any reunion to work. Plus there would have been so much pressure, they would have had to make something that would at least rival, if not top, Pepper or Revolver. I do think that John was the most important factor though, if he would have committed to keeping it going, the other three would have probably went along with it, just like if he was willing to reunite, the other three probably would have went along with it.

I like what John said, that if Yoko caused the breakup and gets all of the blame, she at least deserves the credit for the great music they made in their solo careers.

I sat on a rug, biding my time, drinking her wine
27 November 2010
2.50pm
mr. Sun king coming together
Nowhere Land
Apple rooftop
Forum Posts: 6916
Member Since:
19 September 2010
Offline

GniknuS said:

I like what John said, that if Yoko caused the breakup and gets all of the blame, she at least deserves the credit for the great music they made in their solo careers.


Not At All!!! Would Maybe I'm Amazed, Uncle Albert and the rest of his pre-Band on The Run stuff be better with Ringo on Drums and George and John Playing guitar? Of Course. Would All Things Must Pass be better with Paul's Basslines? Of Course. Would Plastic Ono Band and Imagine be better with George and Paul on Guitar and Bass, respectively? Of Course
I tried to think of something powerful and moving… and failed.  "You were given a choice between war and dishonor - you chose dishonor, and you shall have war" - Winston Churchill
27 November 2010
5.12pm
skye
AZ
Apple rooftop
Forum Posts: 2287
Member Since:
13 November 2009
Offline
45

So are you saying that Yoko wouldn't be involved? Where would she go? I don't see how it would cancel out her contributions to have the four of them working together from time to time. Any more than that, they wouldn't be "solo" would they?

Ad hoc, ad loc, and quid pro quo! So little time! So much to know!
27 November 2010
5.26pm
mr. Sun king coming together
Nowhere Land
Apple rooftop
Forum Posts: 6916
Member Since:
19 September 2010
Offline
46

What I'm saying is that All those songs/albums would be improved if the Beatles Performed them.

I tried to think of something powerful and moving… and failed.  "You were given a choice between war and dishonor - you chose dishonor, and you shall have war" - Winston Churchill
27 November 2010
6.36pm
GniknuS
Rain? I don't mind
Apple rooftop
Forum Posts: 1353
Member Since:
1 May 2010
Offline
47

That's not really the point. I think John just said that because they were still capable of making great music independently, so if Yoko was capable of breaking up these incredible musicians, she must at least get some credit for the great music they continued to make. And I don't really think the music would have been better with the others because they would have just inhibited each other more, maybe Paul's stuff would have improved, but certainly George wouldn't have been able to release a triple album and John wouldn't have been able to release almost anything from Plastic Ono Band. The three just needed backup bands, they didn't need real "band members."

I sat on a rug, biding my time, drinking her wine
27 November 2010
7.01pm
mr. Sun king coming together
Nowhere Land
Apple rooftop
Forum Posts: 6916
Member Since:
19 September 2010
Offline
48

The Jams On ATMP are terrible, so good riddance to them. A lot of The songs on Plastic Ono Band were written off of experiences, most of which would not have been relived without Primal Therapy, which occurred because He wasn't in the group any more and was feeling incomplete.

I tried to think of something powerful and moving… and failed.  "You were given a choice between war and dishonor - you chose dishonor, and you shall have war" - Winston Churchill
28 November 2010
12.59pm
robert
Hollywood Bowl
Forum Posts: 358
Member Since:
19 April 2010
Offline
49

Often in problem solving (this problem being 'what caused the break-up&#39a-hard-days-night-george-10 it is usual to identify the one thing if removed, would have changed the outcome - to me that one thing was John's herion addiction.

 

It made him unreasonable and hard to deal with - Paul himself had said that. I think if John were thinking clearly he might have been reachable - instead he was erratic. It's cliche - but drugs were the number one contributing factor.

 

John's behavior during the 70's can also be tracked and traced to his recurrent bouts with herion. Once he got past that in the late 70's we started to see a more rational John Lennon emerge.

"She looks more like him than I do."
28 November 2010
1.01pm
robert
Hollywood Bowl
Forum Posts: 358
Member Since:
19 April 2010
Offline
50

And just to amplify - I'm not saying John's herion addiction was the ONLY thing - just the dominant factor which impacted all the other problems they were all having.

"She looks more like him than I do."
3 December 2010
3.16pm
Zig
The Toppermost of the Poppermost
Moderator



Forum Posts: 4290
Member Since:
14 April 2010
Offline
51

Do any of you guitar players among us subscribe to "Guitar World" magazine? I do not, but my wife happened to spot this cover on a magazine stand and bought it for me.

It is the Holiday 2010 issue, which was also issued with an alternate cover (if you want both you would have to buy them separately).

My reason for bringing it up in this thread is the fact that there are nice articles about John, Paul and Klaus Voorman and each article talks about (among other things) the breakup. I particularly liked the article about KV becuase I know so little about him and he talked about the end of the Beatles from his point of view. He said that as far back as 1966 John had confided in him many times about how unhappy he was being a Beatle. He really resented all of the attention and hated the fact that he could not go out on his own without being mobbed. Klaus said when Yoko came along, she showed John how to use that to his advantage instead of being suffocated by it.

When I stopped to think about that, something else occurred to me. In a lot of older footage, we see John making what George Harrison refers to as John's "spastic face". Whenever a camera was pointed right in his kisser, John made this face. There are even scenes in "A Hard Day's Night" and "Help!" where you can spot the same thing. To me, I always saw that as a defense mechanism. But, for the life of (Brian?) me, I can not recall seeing that face once in all of the post-Beatles footage of John that I've seen. So, Yoko may not have broken them up but was certainly a catalyst - not just for the breakup but also for John's release and ultimately his happiness. Bittersweet, indeed.   

These may be things that you have heard before, but I found them to be a bit more believable coming from someone who has no stake in anyone's reputation and is not trying to sell a book. It also made me want to learn more about Klaus.

Another little tidbit that you may or may not know (I did not) was that Klaus is the one who bought Stu Sutcliffe's oft-mentioned Hoffner bass when Stu decided to leave the Beatles.

Whether you play guitar or not, you may want to look for this magazine. I'm glad my wife bought it for me.

To the fountain of perpetual mirth, Let it roll for all its worth.

Every Little Thing you buy from Amazon or iTunes will help the Beatles Bible if you use these links: Amazon | iTunes

3 December 2010
5.35pm
GniknuS
Rain? I don't mind
Apple rooftop
Forum Posts: 1353
Member Since:
1 May 2010
Offline

I've seen a few interviews with Klaus and you can tell that he really loved John. I mean, he loved all of the Beatles, but he was much more a part of John's life than the others. He was part of the trio that made Plastic Ono Band with Ringo, and I saw this documentary about John and Paul's solo stuff, and you can just tell from listening to Klaus that he was an absolutely huge reason why John was able to just basically let his emotions fly in that album. He and Ringo did a good job of loving and supporting John during that album, along with Yoko, and I don't think John would have been able to express those emotions had it not been for the comfort that the others gave him. There's a part in the book Memories of John Lennon, or something like that, where Klaus writes about their time in Hamburg and the pills that they were on. One time after a show, he and John were at a restaurant chatting all excitedly when suddenly John just collapsed face first into his soup or something. After a few seconds, he woke up and began chatting feverishly again as if nothing had happened. Klaus drew a picture of it and it's in the book, it's pretty funny. There definitely needs to be more interviews with Klaus out there because he has a unique perspective in the Beatles story.

I sat on a rug, biding my time, drinking her wine
3 December 2010
9.25pm
mr. Sun king coming together
Nowhere Land
Apple rooftop
Forum Posts: 6916
Member Since:
19 September 2010
Offline
53

GniknuS said: There definitely needs to be more interviews with Klaus out there because he has a unique perspective in the Beatles story.

I Think all of his story is out and while his story is interesting, it is a footnote in the annals of Beatles History.


I tried to think of something powerful and moving… and failed.  "You were given a choice between war and dishonor - you chose dishonor, and you shall have war" - Winston Churchill
4 December 2010
12.24am
GniknuS
Rain? I don't mind
Apple rooftop
Forum Posts: 1353
Member Since:
1 May 2010
Offline
54

mr. Sun king coming together said:

GniknuS said: There definitely needs to be more interviews with Klaus out there because he has a unique perspective in the Beatles story.

I Think all of his story is out and while his story is interesting, it is a footnote in the annals of Beatles History.



I'm not talking about his life story or whatever, but he was around the Beatles in Hamburg and this seems to be the least known about time in Beatles history, so clearly he could offer some perspective on what really did and did not happen. It's more than a "footnote" because he was a friend and could offer a real viewpoint, rather than some biographer that wasn't there and is just basing his information on second hand accounts.
I sat on a rug, biding my time, drinking her wine
4 December 2010
4.05am
mithveaen
Sitarday's room
Apple rooftop
Forum Posts: 4651
Member Since:
1 May 2010
Offline
55

Zig said:

My reason for bringing it up in this thread is the fact that there are nice articles about John, Paul and Klaus Voorman and each article talks about (among other things) the breakup. I particularly liked the article about KV becuase I know so little about him and he talked about the end of the Beatles from his point of view. He said that as far back as 1966 John had confided in him many times about how unhappy he was being a Beatle. He really resented all of the attention and hated the fact that he could not go out on his own without being mobbed. Klaus said when Yoko came along, she showed John how to use that to his advantage instead of being suffocated by it.


Now this is the first time I hear something positive about Yoko that truly makes sense to me!!

 

Thanks for sharing this Zig! I might ask them to my Santa in Barnes and Noble... a-hard-days-night-ringo-8

Here comes the sun….. Scoobie-doobie…… Something in the way she moves…..attracts me like a cauliflower… Bop. Bop, cat bop. Go, Johnny, Go. Beware of Darkness…  I believe in SH...
4 December 2010
4.37pm
Zig
The Toppermost of the Poppermost
Moderator



Forum Posts: 4290
Member Since:
14 April 2010
Offline

GniknuS said:

There definitely needs to be more interviews with Klaus out there because he has a unique perspective in the Beatles story.

I'm not talking about his life story or whatever, but he was around the Beatles in Hamburg and this seems to be the least known about time in Beatles history, so clearly he could offer some perspective on what really did and did not happen. It's more than a "footnote" because he was a friend and could offer a real viewpoint, rather than some biographer that wasn't there and is just basing his information on second hand accounts.

mithveaen said:
Now this is the first time I hear something positive about Yoko that truly makes sense to me!! 
Thanks for sharing this Zig! I might ask them to my Santa in Barnes and Noble…

 


I'm with you, Gnik – the article in the magazine left me wanting to know so much more about the Hamburg days.

Yeah, mith it was positive. The fact that Yoko helped free John from certain demons is one of the reasons why my attitude towards her has warmed of late.

To the fountain of perpetual mirth, Let it roll for all its worth.

Every Little Thing you buy from Amazon or iTunes will help the Beatles Bible if you use these links: Amazon | iTunes

4 December 2010
5.05pm
GniknuS
Rain? I don't mind
Apple rooftop
Forum Posts: 1353
Member Since:
1 May 2010
Offline
57

Zig said:

GniknuS said:

There definitely needs to be more interviews with Klaus out there because he has a unique perspective in the Beatles story.

I'm not talking about his life story or whatever, but he was around the Beatles in Hamburg and this seems to be the least known about time in Beatles history, so clearly he could offer some perspective on what really did and did not happen. It's more than a "footnote" because he was a friend and could offer a real viewpoint, rather than some biographer that wasn't there and is just basing his information on second hand accounts.

mithveaen said:
Now this is the first time I hear something positive about Yoko that truly makes sense to me!! 

Thanks for sharing this Zig! I might ask them to my Santa in Barnes and Noble…
 

  


I'm with you, Gnik – the article in the magazine left me wanting to know so much more about the Hamburg days.
 

Yeah, mith it was positive. The fact that Yoko helped free John from certain demons is one of the reasons why my attitude towards her has warmed of late.


There are just too many unanswered questions from the Hamburg days. What really happened with John, Pete and that sailor? What did they really do on stage? You could argue that Hamburg was the most important phase of the Beatles career, after all it supposedly takes 10,000 hours of practice before you're a genius, so, like John said, they just couldn't help improving because they were playing so much. So they crafted their great sound in Liverpool, then sort of cleaned it up with the help of Brian when they got back to Liverpool. We just need more information, I think a whole book should come out just from the Hamburg days!
I sat on a rug, biding my time, drinking her wine
18 June 2011
5.50am
peregrine9
California
Royal Command Performance
Forum Posts: 125
Member Since:
11 May 2011
Offline

Spinner
June 17, 2011
Paul McCartney Places Beatles Breakup Squarely on John Lennon

While Morrissey has come out swinging against the Queen of England, calling her the "ultimate dictator," Sir Paul McCartney has a different issue to take up with her Royal Highness — he thinks his fellow bandmate in the Beatles, Ringo Starr, should be knighted. While all four Beatles enjoy MBE status (Member of the Order of the British Empire), only McCartney was knighted in a ceremony that took place in 1997. Speaking to Geoff Lloyd on Absolute Radio this week, McCartney joked that he would like to poke his head in the Queen's quarters and suggest that the only other living Beatle receive the same honor. Perhaps more significantly, NME reports that during the same interview, McCartney placed the blame for the Beatles' breakup squarely on John Lennon. "Basically me, George [Harrison] and Ringo said, 'Does this have to be final? Could we do a couple of gigs or can we think about this tomorrow?' But John was off with Yoko [Ono] and he was saying 'No, no, it's great — I feel a release,' and all that. So that was kind of final."

http://www.spinner.com/2011/06/17/paul-mccartney-says-john-lennon-broke-up-beatles/

Note by Ahhh Girl 31 May 2014: this post originally began a new thread titled "Paul McCartney Places Beatles Breakup Squarely on John". That thread also included posts 59 and 60.

Life is what happens when your busy making other plans.  John Lennon
18 June 2011
11.59am
mr. Sun king coming together
Nowhere Land
Apple rooftop
Forum Posts: 6916
Member Since:
19 September 2010
Offline
59

That's a great way to spin an article for money. What McCartney is saying is that the final decision was John's. They knew it couldn't last, but this was the last nail. In NO way is this saying, "If John had done x instead of y, we'd still have recorded. Nice spin from spinner.

I tried to think of something powerful and moving… and failed.  "You were given a choice between war and dishonor - you chose dishonor, and you shall have war" - Winston Churchill
20 June 2011
12.44am
RedLennon
Whitewater WI
Ed Sullivan Show
Forum Posts: 197
Member Since:
5 July 2010
Offline
60

I do agree that Ringo should be knighted however.

Forum Timezone: Europe/London

Most Users Ever Online: 597

Currently Online: bewareofchairs, Oudis
47 Guest(s)

Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)

Top Posters:

meanmistermustard: 10050

mr. Sun king coming together: 6916

parlance: 5327

Ahhh Girl: 5314

mithveaen: 4651

Annadog40: 4463

Zig: 4290

Mr. Kite: 3967

Ron Nasty: 3150

fabfouremily: 2947

Member Stats:

Guest Posters: 88

Members: 2653

Moderators: 4

Admins: 2

Forum Stats:

Groups: 3

Forums: 34

Topics: 3152

Posts: 137538

Newest Members: Anna555, BigSparklyEyes, nina555, mshearn3198, Phil74501

Moderators: Ahhh Girl: 5314, meanmistermustard: 10050, Zig: 4290, Joe: 3482

Administrators: Joe: 3482, Ellie: 1

Members Birthdays
Today: None
Upcoming: davedrum