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Miscellaneous questions about the Beatles
12 July 2013
5.02pm
mccartneyalarm
Carnegie Hall
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Who really broke up the Beatles? John? Yoko? Paul? All of them? Brian Epstein's death (my vote)…just curious.

"And in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make."

12 July 2013
5.04pm
Ben Ramon
Candlestick Park
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No one person.

SHUT UP - Paulie's talkin'
12 July 2013
5.24pm
SatanHimself
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From "Buffy The Vampire Slayer":

Spike "My point is the Beatles were a very powerful group. It's not a stretch to say that they pretty much ruled the world. When the group broke up, everybody blamed poor Yoko. The truth is, the group broke itself up. She just happened to be there."

 

 

Try spending a decade as one part of a group of three other personalities, under an endless cultural microscope.  I'm actually quite surprised that they lasted as long as they did, given the circumstances and enormous pressure put upon them.

To to echo Spike:  The Beatles broke themselves up.

E is for 'Ergent'.
12 July 2013
7.24pm
Zig
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SatanHimself said
I'm actually quite surprised that they lasted as long as they did, given the circumstances and enormous pressure put upon them.

I've always thought that if they were not such great friends, they would have split years sooner.

To the fountain of perpetual mirth, Let it roll for all its worth.

Every Little Thing you buy from Amazon or iTunes will help the Beatles Bible if you use these links: Amazon | iTunes

12 July 2013
9.22pm
LongHairedLady
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I agree, it wasn't one single event or person.  

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Beatleva

"Please don't bring your banjo back, I know where it's been..  I wasn't hardly gone a day, when it became the scene..  Banjos!  Banjos!  All the time, I can't forget that tune..  and if I ever see another banjo, I'm going out and buy a big balloon!"

 

12 July 2013
10.09pm
SatanHimself
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And as for 'The Yoko Factor', an argument could be made that she was a positive influence on the Beatles.  She did help John discover his true artistic side and she made him very happy, which was reflected in his musical output from '67-70.  Cynthia (as good a person as she was) didn't make John happy beginning around 1965.  Who knows what his musical output would have been like had he stayed with her…?

E is for 'Ergent'.
12 July 2013
11.21pm
meanmistermustard
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Nobody and no one event split the Beatles. If anything did it was time as they grew older and apart – getting married, having kids, different interests. If you wanted to go back far enough then '66 and the end of touring as it was then that the separation really began (eg Ringo and George not being as involved in Pepper as much as John and Paul were).

SH, i've always loved the Yoko Factor episode of Buffy. Its one of the few I remember.

"Well, probably we'll sell less records, less people'll go to see the film, we'll write less songs, and we'll all die of failure" (John Lennon 8/64)
12 July 2013
11.48pm
Ben Ramon
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SatanHimself said
And as for 'The Yoko Factor', an argument could be made that she was a positive influence on the Beatles.  She did help John discover his true artistic side and she made him very happy, which was reflected in his musical output from '67-70.  Cynthia (as good a person as she was) didn't make John happy beginning around 1965.  Who knows what his musical output would have been like had he stayed with her…?

I'd say John was still very depressed even when he was with Yoko – except now, he had a kindred spirit to latch onto, a person to unite with against the rest of the world. It seems to me that he was writing his most nihilistic and bitter music in the first few years he was with her.

SHUT UP - Paulie's talkin'
13 July 2013
4.57pm
mccartneyalarm
Carnegie Hall
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I agree that no single person or event broke them up. I often wonder if and when they would have broken up when they did had Brian Epstein not died when he did. His death put the Beatles into a temporarily chaotic situation (the result…Magican Mystery Tour…Paul's conception). I think each was feeling the "urge" to quit. But, Paul went into a 2-year tailspin in Scotland after the breakup. John poured himself into Yoko who annoyed the heck out of the other three. I'm not sure she was such a blessing for John as she led him into heroin and such. George had his Marharishi. Ringo just partied. Brian was very nervous before he died that his contract (such that it was) wouldn't be renewed by the boys. Interesting to ponder what would have happened had he lived. (He'd have hated Yoko!) Food for thought.

"And in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make."

13 July 2013
6.51pm
robert
Hollywood Bowl
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What broke up the Beatles?

Well, if you want to put it down to one thing – that would be heroin. John's heroin addiction broke up the Beatles. Each one of them has implied that in various ways. Of course John got heroin from Yoko – so you could blame her. Of course if Brian hadn't died, John would never have gotten addicted (I think Brian would have taken care of it somehow) so you could put it down to Brian's death.

Oh and what killed Brian? Drugs.

Oh the irony.

"She looks more like him than I do."
14 July 2013
2.15pm
fabfouremily
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I know that Brian was very good at lot's of things but I don't really see how he could've helped John getting addicted to heroin.

''We're just knocked out. We heard about the sell out. You gotta get an album out, you owe it to the people. We're so happy we can hardly count.''

14 July 2013
5.05pm
Linde
The Netherlands
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No Emily you're reading it wrong I think. Robert says he thinks Brian could've PREVENTED John from getting addicted. Which I don't agree with. John wouldn't have listened to Brian anyway and perhaps Brian himself would've gotten addicted too, who knows.

However, I agree with the Buffy quote SatanHimself posted. The group broke itself up. There were a lot of factors that made them want to broke up, but like I said, they WANTED to break up. Hadn't Yoko been there, they still would've broken up anyway.

I don't agree on Yoko having a positive influence on the Beatles. On John maybe, yes, in the way that she made him happy (not in the way she introduced him to heroin and god knows what else), but on the Beatles in general? I don't believe so. Also, I really don't know what songs written by John she inspired, but I do know she helped creating the god awful Revolution 9 and THAT, my dear friends, is not a good thing.

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Oudis
14 July 2013
5.37pm
Ron Nasty
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Seems to me Emily is saying exactly the same as you, Linde. She's saying that for all the positive impact he had on their lives, and despite John and Brian's friendship, she doubts any help Brian could have offered would have prevented John from going down the road he was on.

I understand that Yoko is disliked by many here, but I think she's taking too much blame for John's drug situation. I have little doubt John would have gotten too heavily involved in heroin with or without Yoko. That's just who he was. Remember, John would often reflect on the amount of LSD he took and its negative effects on him. John was pretty much an all or nothing man. Luckily, unlike so many others during those days, he managed to survive.

But the amount of drug casualties there were in those last years of the '60s just helps make the point that he didn't need Yoko to introduce him to heroin – it was the new "in" drug in the world he inhabited.

"I only said we were bigger than Rod... and now there's all this!" Ron Nasty
14 July 2013
6.26pm
fabfouremily
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^^ You're right. Linde, we're saying the same thing.

I agree with you, I think John would've took heroin had she been part of his life or not. He had plently of ''friends'' that took all kind of things so I don't think he would have had difficulty finding it. As mja said, it was the new thing in the late 60s.

''We're just knocked out. We heard about the sell out. You gotta get an album out, you owe it to the people. We're so happy we can hardly count.''

14 July 2013
9.37pm
SatanHimself
Hades-on-Leith
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And my defense of Yoko falls under the category of "we just don't know".  Maybe John's contributions would have been terrible without Yoko in his life.  Maybe he would have given up on the band completely.  Maybe he would have written ever better songs and been the creative driving force to keep the band going until 1974.  Who knows…?

It's just one of the endless alternate timelines to ponder.  But the one we got, where John & Yoko were together and we got the albums and solo work, satisfies me.

E is for 'Ergent'.
15 July 2013
5.09pm
mccartneyalarm
Carnegie Hall
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Does anyone think that Yoko was using John and that her love for him came from her need for his money to subsidize her art" dreams (which she shared with Tony Cox, her husband, even after she got together with John). I'm not bashing Yoko cuz it is too lalte for that and John loved her (at least he did at first, or thought he did). I'm just not buying that they had some incredible love affair that comsumed John's being. I think he was blind to a lot of things. Remember, he called her "mother" which is in itself disturbing. In the last years before his death, I think he felt deserted by her (see May Pang book and Seaman book). And there is that "lost weekend." Wanted to know what everyone thinks about all this….

"And in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make."

15 July 2013
7.34pm
robert
Hollywood Bowl
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In defense of my earlier statement – here's what I think about what might have happened had Brian not died and its impact on John (BTW – I am in no way offended by those who disagree – the respectful floating of contrary opinion is part of what's great about this site):

John gave certain people in his life tremendous amounts of influence – this is something he himself acknowledged many times – this is what he did with Yoko, Klein and Brian. The main difference is that Brian always had John's best interest at heart. Klein certainly did not John's interest at heart. And we can argue whether or not Yoko ever did, but certainly introducing John to heroin and its continued use wasn't healthy for anyone.

So, my long winded point is that while I don't think Brian would have kept John and Yoko apart (John actually met Yoko before Brian died I think) but I do believe Brian would prevented John from becoming addicted to heroin. John listened to Brian tremendously.

And I also do believe that more than anything one thing (although I acknowledge the other factors) , John's heroin addiction was the demise of the Beatles because it made John impossible to deal with – something all four of them acknowledged – and it may be the only one thing all four of them agree(d) upon about that time in their history.

 

 

"She looks more like him than I do."
15 July 2013
10.04pm
Linde
The Netherlands
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Haha oops I was tired. Seems like I was the one who was reading it wrong *blushes*

16 July 2013
3.11am
unknown
Nowhere Land
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SatanHimself said
And my defense of Yoko falls under the category of "we just don't know".  Maybe John's contributions would have been terrible without Yoko in his life.  Maybe he would have given up on the band completely.  Maybe he would have written ever better songs and been the creative driving force to keep the band going until 1974.  Who knows…?

It's just one of the endless alternate timelines to ponder.  But the one we got, where John & Yoko were together and we got the albums and solo work, satisfies me.

But does it really satisfy you? John Lennon would not have been shot without Yoko. Maybe he would have died earlier from a drug addict, but I don't believe he would have been so big about the politics and New York and like moves there and what. 

All living things must abide by the laws of the shape they inhabit
16 July 2013
12.23pm
fabfouremily
Sitting in an English garden
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I'm not the biggest Yoko fan but I think it's slightly unfair to blame his death on her. He loved NY. He might have gone to live there anyway. He always had big ideas about the world and what he thought people should do. Though he didn't start to get really vocal about them 'til he was with Yoko, we don't know if he would've done anyway (assuming that is why it happened, and not just because MC was/is insane). Conclusion: as SH said, we don't know what would've happened in any situation other than the one we got.

''We're just knocked out. We heard about the sell out. You gotta get an album out, you owe it to the people. We're so happy we can hardly count.''

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