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Paul Vs. John
28 April 2014
2.21pm
Expert Textpert
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So, after listening to a lot of Paul McCartney, I think I am starting to enjoy Paul's post-Beatles output more than John's. But I think I prefer John's Beatles output.

What do you think about Beatles ouptut?

Whose Beatles output was better?

  • John(50% : 6 votes)
  • Paul(50% : 6 votes)
Total Voters: 12

What about post-Beatles?

Whose post-Beatles output was better?

  • John(23% : 3 votes)
  • Paul(77% : 10 votes)
Total Voters: 13

"This Beatles talk bores me to death." --John Lennon

28 April 2014
2.27pm
Annadog40
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I thought this was gonna be a John vs Paul in a physical fight. Though I can't weigh in on solo stuff since I haven't heard all of Paul's stuff. Though for Beatles I will give it to Paul since he made my favorite Beatles song Ob-la-di ob-la-da

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28 April 2014
2.52pm
parlance
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I hate the whole Paul vs. John thing. I don't understand the purpose.

parlance

Beware of sadness. It can hit you. It can hurt you. Make you sore and what is more, that is not what you are here for. - George

Check out my fan video for Paul's song "Appreciate" at YouTube and Vimeo.

28 April 2014
2.53pm
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parlance said

I hate the whole Paul vs. John thing. I don't understand the purpose.

parlance

The purpose is to see what your preference is. If that bothers you, don't reply.

"This Beatles talk bores me to death." --John Lennon

28 April 2014
3.02pm
parlance
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You asked our opinion, and I gave it.

parlance

Beware of sadness. It can hit you. It can hurt you. Make you sore and what is more, that is not what you are here for. - George

Check out my fan video for Paul's song "Appreciate" at YouTube and Vimeo.

28 April 2014
3.03pm
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parlance said

You asked our opinion, and I gave it.

parlance

You stated your annoyance and your lack of an opinion about the topic. Perhaps you should explain why no one should compare John and Paul's music.

"This Beatles talk bores me to death." --John Lennon

28 April 2014
3.08pm
parlance
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Expert Textpert said

parlance said

You asked our opinion, and I gave it.

parlance

You stated your annoyance and your lack of an opinion about the topic.

 

No. I stated I hated the framework of the entire question. Why pose it was a battle in the first place with "vs."? Why does it have to be a matter of one being better than the other? Why not include "I like both equally" as an option? 

This is not a new question, and it always devolves into an argument about one's supposed superiority or who rewrote history. It's tiresome.

parlance

Beware of sadness. It can hit you. It can hurt you. Make you sore and what is more, that is not what you are here for. - George

Check out my fan video for Paul's song "Appreciate" at YouTube and Vimeo.

28 April 2014
3.16pm
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parlance said

Expert Textpert said

parlance said

You asked our opinion, and I gave it.

parlance

You stated your annoyance and your lack of an opinion about the topic.

 

No. I stated I hated the framework of the entire question. Why pose it was a battle in the first place with "vs."? Why does it have to be a matter of one being better than the other? Why not include "I like both equally" as an option? 

This is not a new question, and it always devolves into an argument about one's supposed superiority or who rewrote history. It's tiresome.

parlance

Who are you to dictate what should and should not be posted here? It's not a battle. It's a question about which you prefer. I think I need to take a break from the forum. I don't come here to be criticized.

"This Beatles talk bores me to death." --John Lennon

28 April 2014
3.22pm
parlance
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Expert Textpert said
Who are you to dictate what should and should not be posted here? It's not a battle. It's a question about which you prefer.

That's a really ironic question considering you just told me not to respond if I don't like your post. This is a general forum for Beatles fans, and I may not always like what is posted here, but I don't have the right to tell people when to respond, and neither do you.

parlance

Beware of sadness. It can hit you. It can hurt you. Make you sore and what is more, that is not what you are here for. - George

Check out my fan video for Paul's song "Appreciate" at YouTube and Vimeo.

28 April 2014
3.27pm
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parlance said

Expert Textpert said
Who are you to dictate what should and should not be posted here? It's not a battle. It's a question about which you prefer.

That's a really ironic question considering you just told me not to respond if I don't your post. This is a general forum for Beatles fans, and I may not always like what is posted here, but I don't have the right to tell people when to respond, and neither do you.

parlance

I'm just showing you what's polite, that's all. If you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything. I really don't think you like me.

"This Beatles talk bores me to death." --John Lennon

28 April 2014
3.28pm
parlance
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Expert Textpert said

 I really don't think you like me.

Whoa, way to take this personally. I have no opinion of you.

Edit to add: I just don't think we need yet another rehash of the Paul vs. John debate when it already exists in so many areas and resolves nothing. It's all down to personal opinion, but unfortunately it always gets ugly.

parlance

Beware of sadness. It can hit you. It can hurt you. Make you sore and what is more, that is not what you are here for. - George

Check out my fan video for Paul's song "Appreciate" at YouTube and Vimeo.

28 April 2014
3.45pm
Joe
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Can we (as a general rule) just agree to move on if a thread or poll just doesn't interest us? There are plenty that bore the pants off me, but I don't bother wading in and say BORING! every time someone starts a "Rank your favourite songs!" or "What's better? X or Y?" thread.

Also, these meta-discussions really do overshadow the intended purpose of the thread, to the extent that it becomes really difficult for people to speak up if they have an opinion on the original topic. Is this too much to ask? stay-on-topic

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28 April 2014
3.55pm
parlance
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Point taken. I usually don't say anything. This particular topic, however, just keeps coming up, and it's never been a problem to point out that it's a rehash before - and a negative one, at that. Can we also make a point of responding to existing threads on the topic rather than starting a new one?

parlance

Beware of sadness. It can hit you. It can hurt you. Make you sore and what is more, that is not what you are here for. - George

Check out my fan video for Paul's song "Appreciate" at YouTube and Vimeo.

28 April 2014
4.11pm
Joe
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I don't think the poll was framed at all negatively, unless you think the use of the word "better" is inviting anything other than a person's opinion. "Whose Beatles output do you prefer?" might have been better wording but I think the intention was good.

Secondly, I'm more than happy to merge threads if they've been done before. Use the Report button and I'll do it, if you include a link to where it might be better placed. I know you do this anyway and it's useful for keeping things orderly.

Perhaps someone needs to devise a mega-poll with every permutation of question and answer which will provide the definitive hivemind of the Beatles Bible. But even then individual people will disagree.

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28 April 2014
4.22pm
meanmistermustard
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I'm sure we have a thread covering this as i know i've posted my thoughts about Pauls catalogue v Johns. Not sure how to search to find out tho.

 

Tracked down one of my replies in this thread which also included George and Ringo's catalogues (which i've omitted as aren't part of this).

 

Consistency is the problem i have with Pauls albums. For me on most albums you get say 2/3 of the songs that are really good leaning to excellent, half of the remaining 1/3 are good and the remainder i can give or take without much fuss (i think thats 1/6 left over). Obviously there are exceptions to that, for me these would be Driving Rain, Press To Play & Memory Almost Full which are all garbage, and the previously mentioned Give My Regards To Broad Street which has only No More Lonely Nights, everything else is the absolute nadir of solo-beatle crap (should add i havent heard Chaos and Creation because of listening and detesting DR and MAF) and possibly Pipes of Peace. (Do those maths add upa-hard-days-night-ringo-12?)

To me it appears that most of Pauls eighties output has been forgotten and is largely down to the mid-section where a lot of damage was done critically and commercially. Flowers in the Dirt helped repair some of the damage and then The Beatles Anthology helped a lot too, one example being it inspired Paul to record Flaming Pie which is one of Pauls strongest albums. It appears that Paul needs someone to bounce ideas off and be inspired by, outside the beatles he had wings where altho he was the dominant presence the other members helped as did being on tour - and its no-coincidence that without either of those his creative spark fell by the wayside.

Overall i just think a lot of critics and people come to Pauls catalogue with an already preconceived idea that his entire output is schmaltzy, sappy, cute but without depth, and generally lightweight. Which is all totally untrue.

 

As for John his first two studio albums are great and the next 4 never get above average. The songs themselves are generally good but the production for me sucks it all down to mediocre with only a handful of songs being decent the way they were released (Some Time being the exception – far too political and i dont believe John really bought into any of it). Double Fantasy/Milk And Honey (both come from the same sessions – Milk and Honey being unfinished) showed that John was rusty after being out for so long but that with time it would probably improve (tho there is no way that can be 100% sure).

And looking at that i think his music is overrated based on those 7 or 8 studio albums. For me a lot of Johns reputation is based on being viewed as the THE beatle, his amazing aura in interviews, the persona Yoko has created and 2 very strong albums and a large handful of great songs. (And before people rise up over that i love John and his music (tho not everything) just not how it was produced, the outtakes are fantasic and show just how darn good he trully was. And i hate how Yoko manages his catalogue and memory)

 

I will add that i have since heard both Chaos and Creation and Electronic Arguements which are good bordering on great yet whilst getting very positive reviews do little to alter his musical repuation of being light-weight, schmaltzy, sappy, cute but without depth, and generally lightweight.

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Expert Textpert
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28 April 2014
4.24pm
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No hard feelings, @parlance. I know we all just want to enjoy and discuss The Beatles in our own way. Written communication is not always the most reliable indicator of what a person is trying to say.

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parlance

"This Beatles talk bores me to death." --John Lennon

28 April 2014
4.24pm
parlance
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Joe said
I don't think the poll was framed at all negatively, unless you think the use of the word "better" is inviting anything other than a person's opinion. "Whose Beatles output do you prefer?" might have been better wording but I think the intention was good.

Secondly, I'm more than happy to merge threads if they've been done before. Use the Report button and I'll do it, if you include a link to where it might be better placed. I know you do this anyway and it's useful for keeping things orderly.

Sounds good. To clarify, it's not about a specific poll or even the idea of it being "boring." I know you don't have time to read all the discussions, but within the context of ones that pop up in the John and Paul forums like thisthis and this where even if the topic isn't "Paul vs John" it devolves into that anyway, it certainly appeared negative. And that's just the tip of the iceberg, as even some George discussion have occasionally gone there.

parlance

Beware of sadness. It can hit you. It can hurt you. Make you sore and what is more, that is not what you are here for. - George

Check out my fan video for Paul's song "Appreciate" at YouTube and Vimeo.

28 April 2014
4.29pm
parlance
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Expert Textpert said
No hard feelings, @parlance. I know we all just want to enjoy and discuss The Beatles in our own way. Written communication is not always the most reliable indicator of what a person is trying to say.

 

None here, either. Virtually hugging it out. ;->

parlance

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Beware of sadness. It can hit you. It can hurt you. Make you sore and what is more, that is not what you are here for. - George

Check out my fan video for Paul's song "Appreciate" at YouTube and Vimeo.

28 April 2014
4.30pm
meanmistermustard
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@Parlance The first two links you have are leading to the start of the same thread (why is everyone suddenly bad-mouthing Paul).

 

As for the conversations turning negative it would help if folk didn't take folk saying Paul was not as good as John or vice-versa so personally and treating it as an attack on themself, that (n)either or the two Beatles can not withstand such a comment or two, and so therefore they must fight back on their behalf with all guns blazing. 

 

I probably prefer Johns Beatles work over Pauls but i hate to say so as Paul's is so damn strong plus they both contributed so much to each others. As for the solo work Paul has put out so much more than Johns which makes it easier to think its better as there is so much strong material to point to whilst with Johns as there is less its easier to say this sucks so wipes out that despite the very good being every bit as excellent as Paul's. 

Nothing like a withering reply.a-hard-days-night-john-5a-hard-days-night-paul-7

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28 April 2014
4.36pm
parlance
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meanmistermustard said
@Parlance The first two links you have are leading to the start of the same thread (why is everyone suddenly bad-mouthing Paul).

 

As for the conversations turning negative it would help if folk didn't take folk saying Paul was not as good as John or vice-versa so personally and treating it as an attack on themself, that (n)either or the two Beatles can not withstand such a comment or two, and so therefore they must fight back on their behalf with all guns blazing. 

 

I probably prefer Johns Beatles work over Pauls but i hate to say so as Paul's is so damn strong plus they both contributed so much to each others. As for the solo work Paul has put out so much more than Johns which makes it easier to think its better as there is so much strong material to point to whilst with Johns as there is less its easier to say this sucks so wipes out that despite the very good being every bit as excellent as Paul's. 

 

Thanks, fixed the first. And agreed on the second point.

Edit: I just saw your third paragraph, and I meant to add earlier that one of the reasons I find the question unfair is that Paul has the benefit of time that John did not. I almost feel like the only fair way to discuss the issue is look look at their output up through 1980.

parlance

Beware of sadness. It can hit you. It can hurt you. Make you sore and what is more, that is not what you are here for. - George

Check out my fan video for Paul's song "Appreciate" at YouTube and Vimeo.

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