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John and George Relationship Post-Beatles
7 August 2013
5.39pm
DrBeatle
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^Well, Sean and Yoko still peddle the myth that John was an absolute saint who was the perfect embodiment of humanity, so I wouldn't put it past them.

"I know you, you know me; one thing I can tell you is you got to be free!"

 

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7 August 2013
6.46pm
acmac
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robert said

And remember, even if you run of out of money, you're still an ex-Beatle – it's not like you can fly coach. I mean you just can't.

Absolutely. Once that level of fame is reached, it's vital to retain a certain amount of wealth just to stay safe and have some privacy.

Inner Light said 

For the record, Olivia never said that her husband cheated on her. She said that George loved women and women loved George and that he could say something to you and have a profound effect. She did say it was hard but never commented that he cheated on her. I think a lot of people are reading to much into this. I like to think that if he cheated on her, Dhani would not have come out with some comments about his dad, one saying he was a great man. Of course, this is just my opinion.

Plenty of people still have love and respect for their unfaithful parents. It's quite clear to me that Olivia was confirming the rumors of multiple infidelities on George's part, albeit in the classiest manner possible, and taking care to emphasize what mattered most to her: that they loved each other, stuck it out, and found "rewards" on the other side of their problems. If that wasn't what she meant, surely she would have made a statement to clarify the issue after many reviews of the documentary concluded the same thing.

Scorcese obviously wanted to acknowledge that "carnal" side of George, though why he included that awkward "red-blooded man" bit from Paul is beyond me, lol.

 

7 August 2013
11.01pm
meanmistermustard
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Wasn't one reason behind George's financial problems that led to the Anthology Handmade Films and getting stiffed by Denis O'Brien, all the money he had was tied up and therefore unavailable for how long who knows at the time.

Sean and Yoko have to continue the myth of Saint John as they have invested too much in creating it and it will make them an absolute packet. Im eternally pissed off that they hawk Johns legacy and library for every penny possible whilst telling us its to protect him from being forgotten and he wouldn't mind, which is complete and utter bullshit – but that's another rant.

"Well, probably we'll sell less records, less people'll go to see the film, we'll write less songs, and we'll all die of failure" (John Lennon 8/64)
8 August 2013
1.24am
DrBeatle
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Yes, O'Brien bilked George out of his money, although he made some questionable investments in terms of the films Handmade was making…Shanghai Surprise? a-hard-days-night-ringo-14a-hard-days-night-ringo-6

"I know you, you know me; one thing I can tell you is you got to be free!"

 

Please Visit My Website, The Rock and Roll Chemist

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8 August 2013
8.18am
LadyBay
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Just catching up with all this after being away for a few days – you people are amazing!!

ALL of the above points are well made and backed up. Complex doesn't even begin to describe these boys and their relationships. George, in particular, was such a contradictory personality. There's no doubt he could be an ornery old bugger but he was so much loved by so many people in his life. You see it in LITMW with guys as diverse as, say, Jim Keltner and Jackie Stewart who talk about his death as being one of the hardest things they have ever had to deal with, and Ray Cooper breaking down in tears during his interview and having to take some time to compose himself, even all these years after George's death. Not to mention Olivia and Dhani's obvious deep and enduring love (I agree, they both acknowledge George's failings – they just see past them). The guy really had something.

DrBeatle said
Yes, O'Brien bilked George out of his money, although he made some questionable investments in terms of the films Handmade was making…Shanghai Surprise? a-hard-days-night-ringo-14a-hard-days-night-ringo-6

I read somewhere that while this film was being made, there was a 'fling' with Madonna?? Please say it ain't so!

"Try to realise it's all within yourself - no-one else can make you change"

8 August 2013
9.33am
LadyBay
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Just to add to that……..while commenting on Isn't It A Pity on another thread it occurred to me…….this is a man who had the insight to write profound lyrics such as that and yet when it came to his John and Paul relationships, failed so often to put them into practice!

"Try to realise it's all within yourself - no-one else can make you change"

8 August 2013
2.47pm
meanmistermustard
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Never heard of George and Madonna, considering he found her to be humourless and a pain to work with I would doubt it. 

"Well, probably we'll sell less records, less people'll go to see the film, we'll write less songs, and we'll all die of failure" (John Lennon 8/64)
8 August 2013
10.21pm
Linde
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I've read that rumour too. I doubt it's true. Paparazzi like to exaggerate and make a lot of stuff up. 

Though you never know.

8 August 2013
10.52pm
meanmistermustard
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A Daily Mail article on George and affairs includes the following about a possible affair with Madonn, is more rumour and hearsay than any fact (tho considering the source is that a surprise)

Rather extraordinarily, more than one source  suspects that he had a heavy flirtation with Madonna on the set of the 1986 film Shanghai Surprise, despite the presence of her first husband Sean  Penn.

Certainly, Madonna was at the time deeply  unhappy with Penn, and said she found Harrison, who was executive producer of  the film, ‘very understanding and sympathetic’.

He came to see them filming in Macau, and  also met her several times in London before and after the production. It was obvious that they got on well, even though the movie turned out to be such a disaster that it was dubbed ‘Flop  Suey’.

Madonna’s brother, Christopher Ciccone, noted that, although Harrison felt moved to ‘read the riot act’ to Penn over his  hostile and aggressive attitude during filming and gave the actor a stern  ticking-off, he treated Madonna with ‘kid gloves’. During a press conference a few weeks after  filming finished, he surprised everyone present by going on the attack over  allegations that Madonna had been impossible to work with, passionately  denouncing the assembled journalists as ‘animals’. It all seemed rather unlike the ‘quiet  Beatle’.

 

"Well, probably we'll sell less records, less people'll go to see the film, we'll write less songs, and we'll all die of failure" (John Lennon 8/64)
10 August 2013
3.31pm
Hannah
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Please god no George!!!!!!

 

10 August 2013
9.14pm
meanmistermustard
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An interview with John and George from December 1974.

"Well, probably we'll sell less records, less people'll go to see the film, we'll write less songs, and we'll all die of failure" (John Lennon 8/64)
11 August 2013
3.28am
DrBeatle
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Hannah said
Please god no George!!!!!!

 

Well, there's a pretty unsavory passage in a book by some "professional" groupie (can't remember the title) where George merrily strummed away on his ukelele while getting "serviced" by 2 ladies sometime in the late 70s/80s. So the Madonna fling…I'd buy it if it turned out it was true, doesn't seem like it'd be out of the realm of possibility for George!

 

"I know you, you know me; one thing I can tell you is you got to be free!"

 

Please Visit My Website, The Rock and Roll Chemist

Twitter: @blackbookblur

 

11 August 2013
7.10am
LadyBay
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Oooh…ick. But I think I'd rather that were true than the Madonna rumour

"Try to realise it's all within yourself - no-one else can make you change"

11 August 2013
1.19pm
Hannah
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LadyBay said
Oooh…ick. But I think I'd rather that were true than the Madonna rumour

Me too! I can't stand Madonna. George was right, she is humourless. 

11 August 2013
7.09pm
Von Bontee
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Didn't used to always be so…people used to ADORE her back in 1984-85 when she seemed so fresh and kooky and life-loving and didn't try to present herself as especially deep. And hey, did you know that the popularization of the term "wannabe" is largely traceable to Madonna and her loving young fans who wanted to be just like her – "Madonna wanna-bes", the media called them; and the rest was history!

So in conclusion, Madonna was the hottest thing around in 1985, when the movie would've been made, and she was even worthy of much of that attention. So the George-Madonna "thing", if it really happened, is actually a pretty cool thing (as far as celebrity extramarital flings can be, especially those by spiritual pop music heroes who would be expected to be above these things, maybe) is actually a pretty cool thing! Certainly less tawdry than that ukulele thing, anyways. (Huge buckets of ew there.)

One day, a tape-op got a tape on backwards, he went to play it, and it was all "Neeeradno-undowarrroom" and it was "Wow! Sounds Indian!" -- Paul McCartney
12 August 2013
12.41am
meanmistermustard
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Shame she went into making dreadful movies, unlistenable music and exposing every millimetre of her body (I think to shock people but just ended up boring them instead). Another artist who has become a pastiche (is that the right word?) of herself.

"Well, probably we'll sell less records, less people'll go to see the film, we'll write less songs, and we'll all die of failure" (John Lennon 8/64)
12 August 2013
1.24pm
Linde
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I looked up what it exactly meant, and when used as imitation it says: ''the term denotes a literary technique employing a generally light-hearted tongue-in-cheek imitation of another's style; although jocular, it is usually respectful.''

I'm not sure if you could use the word ''pastiche'' in the context you did, but then again, I'm not a native English speaker so I don't know a lot of things. But maybe you meant to say ''parody''?

12 August 2013
2.01pm
meanmistermustard
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I have no idea what word I was looking for, pastiche was the one that popped in my head so typed it went.

I liked some of Madonna's earlier music (love Dear Jessie) up to Vogue (was that before the dreadful Dick Tracy film with the excruciating Hanky Panky), but going from what I've heard from Frozen onwards its so banal (the thought of her cover of American Pie is painful and that dreadful Bond song).

I think I might be slightly off topic track. stay-on-topica-hard-days-night-ringo-14

"Well, probably we'll sell less records, less people'll go to see the film, we'll write less songs, and we'll all die of failure" (John Lennon 8/64)
12 August 2013
3.58pm
parlance
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DrBeatle said

Well, there's a pretty unsavory passage in a book by some "professional" groupie (can't remember the title) where George merrily strummed away on his ukelele while getting "serviced" by 2 ladies sometime in the late 70s/80s. So the Madonna fling…I'd buy it if it turned out it was true, doesn't seem like it'd be out of the realm of possibility for George!

 

The book is You'll Never Make Love in This Town Again. It was just one woman, and she wasn't a groupie but a call girl. This article mentions the George bit. Funny, I'd forgotten there was a George chapter and I'd gotten rid of the book a couple of years ago during a spring cleaning.

parlance

 

Beware of sadness. It can hit you. It can hurt you. Make you sore and what is more, that is not what you are here for. - George

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12 August 2013
4.59pm
DrBeatle
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meanmistermustard said
I have no idea what word I was looking for, pastiche was the one that popped in my head so typed it went.

I liked some of Madonna's earlier music (love Dear Jessie) up to Vogue (was that before the dreadful Dick Tracy film with the excruciating Hanky Panky), but going from what I've heard from Frozen onwards its so banal (the thought of her cover of American Pie is painful and that dreadful Bond song).

I think I might be slightly off topic track. stay-on-topica-hard-days-night-ringo-14

I think you meant she's a parody of herself. Which is certainly true!

 

"I know you, you know me; one thing I can tell you is you got to be free!"

 

Please Visit My Website, The Rock and Roll Chemist

Twitter: @blackbookblur

 

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