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Are we a dying breed?
15 September 2012
7.53am
Jackson
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SatanHimself said
I like to think that in a few generations The Beatles will be canonized like classical music masters.  At some point the copyrights will expire and their music will become part of the world entire. 

Agreed, Beethoven died 185 years ago but we all still know who he is. I'm sure The Beatles will be no different.

15 September 2012
11.24am
Wildcat
The Cavern Club
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As a First-Time poster who only found this site tonight, I'd like to introduce myself: 52 years old, an avid but not overly-scholarly Beatles fanatic since hearing 'Rubber Soul' (US vers) in the summer of 1966 and active admirer/student/historian/collector since; true, bigoted hater of all recently-invented electronic entities such as computers, cell phones, Blackberrys, cell phones, iPads, Kindle, cell phones, Twitter, Facebook, text messaging on cell phones, x-box, gameboy and iTunes. I don't care much for cell phones, either. But I absolutely love finding a new Beatles site, Because I'm Looking Through You and Tomorrow Never Knows if I Will look forward to Every Little Thing this Magical Mystery Tour may have in store For No One but me.

[I also Bold The Beatles whenever I type it, and really enjoy incorporating Beatle song titles into silly sentences. And I'll use italics and underlines for any reason I can think of.]

But the first thing that bought my eye was the 'Fab Forum' Header with this Topic underneath, which inspired me to register for the sheer pleasure of spouting off my Beatles rhetoric ad infinitum to the point where all other commenters will cringe at the sight of my space-wasting posts and I won't care because I don't see you and I can't hear you lalalalalalalalaaaaaaaaah to infinity...

To Reply to this Topic forthwith:

Yes, people- from the youngest toddlers, who are only now aurally ingesting their daddy or mum's 'Rubber Soul' remastered mono 5.7 sound CD emanating from a home stereo system or lucious, bass-thumping surround-sound automotive player; barely adolescent white boys who 'kinda like 'em' from what they've overheard on a grocery store loudspeaker tuned to an oldies radio station; college-bound, cusp-of-adulthood asian, middle-eastern, european guys and girls who speak English better than we do, who can engage in conversation with anyone when talking about The Beatles, like my friend Jym Kwhan, 7 years younger than I and residing in his mother's womb when she saw them at their disastrous visit to the Philipines; a couple of my co-workers: a lovely black lady named Denise who walks the halls repetitiously singing the line "Eight Days A Week" when she's stressed, and John, a 55-year-old black man who loves telling me about the women he impressed through his life by reciting the German version of "Sie Lieb Dicht." On up and through my beautiful, amazing Mother, who died at 72 years old and managed to get me every major Beatles item-of-the-moment for every Christmas I can remember.

We are all, every one of us, a "dying breed." But, like the earth's environment, it will still take decades before our near-extinction.

Meanmrmustard helps to put the argument into clearer perspective for me with the "Weren't The Beatles the best selling artist of the 2000's?" rhetorical in that regard:

What young female 'bobbysoxer' thought Sinatra's or Bing Crosby's music, their 'dreamy' looks and 'swell' personality, would ever become passe' in those ultra-modern and hip days of the 30's and 40's? Crosby's "White Christmas" held the record for most -- records ever sold worldwide, even during The Beatles' entire career. But that record did eventually change - after millions more LPs and singles produced, from more artists and more record companies to advertise and manufacture that vinyl, to more teenagers with disposable income to buy those records to play, on phonographs that became more affordable at the very height of American teenage hysteria for Rock And Roll Music that coincided with The Beatles' initial invasion, just a few crucial years after Elvis recorded the best music he would ever make. Sam Phillips sold Elvis to RCA Records for less than $20,000 - no one could have foreseen a phenomenon like The Beatles at that time, who almost single-handedly revolutionized the record industry, among other things.

So as for the term "best selling," that alone cannot be relied on as the definitive measure of an artist's staying power; however, The Beatles re-defined virtually every artistic concept, along with pre-conceived notions of long-established approaches to marketing, advertising, distribution, etc. which makes referring to them as simply "best selling" seem almost insulting in comparison. 

Then there are Ben Ramon's excellent observations regarding The Beatles' YouTube popularity; the "100+ comments" on most of their vids is no exaggeration, and the "often perpetuated by morons" statement is being too kind!

One could go on and on about how every subsequent music collection, video, CD and vinyl reissue of The Beatles,from the 70's Blue and Red LP sets to 'Magical Mystery Tour's upcoming 'special edition' package next month, has demonstrated The Beatles' enduring appeal, but these sentences from earlier are probably the best answer we're going to get to this Topic question:

SatanHimself said
I like to think that in a few generations The Beatles will be canonized like classical music masters.  At some point the copyrights will expire and their music will become part of the world entire. 

Agreed, Beethoven died 185 years ago but we all still know who he is. I'm sure The Beatles will be no different.

As for myself, I see The Beatles as one of the major highlights of my lifetime, in terms of joyous memories, magical moments, and neverending, consistently entertaining, enlightening and unique from any other experience in our human history. I love the fact that I knew and loved The Beatles when they existed, literally growing up with them and never losing my interest or enthusiasm for them at any stage of my life.

And I love the fact - the fact - I lived long enough to tell any and everyone who cares to listen, without hesitation or need for embellishment, that The Beatles were, are, and will always be known as, THE most popular artists/group/musical entertainers and singular positive entity of the 20th Century.

Every one of you reading this has lived long enough to say that, also. We may be part of a "dying breed," but we're a goddamn cool species.

15 September 2012
12.26pm
Long John Silver
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The most epic introduction I ever saw on this forum.

Living is easy with eyes closed, misunderstanding all you see.
15 September 2012
12.53pm
mr. Sun king coming together
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If future generations lose the Beatles, or they become like Sinatra or Martin (loved by and known to a select few teens), well, I won't be rolling over in my grave. Why should we be concerned with issues of longevity? Why should whether or not people around you like them or know who they are matter? If they stop being popular, I won't shed a tear. You know why? I derive no pleasure from being a fan of the Beatles. I derive the pleasure from their music. If you enjoy the music, why should you care if your friends or acquaintances know them? I think this thread is misguided. It shouldn't matter if they're still popular amongst my generation - if you like the music, then anyone else liking is useless information. Or it should be.

I tried to think of something powerful and moving… and failed.  "You were given a choice between war and dishonor - you chose dishonor, and you shall have war" - Winston Churchill
15 September 2012
1.27pm
SatanHimself
Hades-on-Leith
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Long John Silver said
The most epic introduction I ever saw on this forum.

I concur.  Welcome, Wildcat!

 

I like your scholarly and thoughtful approach.  Please spend some time with us.

E is for 'Ergent'.
15 September 2012
7.02pm
meanmistermustard
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I dont see them becoming old hat or less relevant or however it can be put but who knows what will happen in 10/20 years. The beatles kids will begin to take over the handling of their music and how it is marketed inand to society which will hopefully provide new and exciting ideas (Dhani being the driving force of Rockband). 

He told us not to get overwhelmed by grief and whatever thoughts we have... to keep them happy, because any thoughts we have of him will travel to him wherever he is. (John Lennon - 27/8/67)
15 September 2012
7.35pm
SatanHimself
Hades-on-Leith
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meanmistermustard said
I dont see them becoming old hat or less relevant or however it can be put but who knows what will happen in 10/20 years. The beatles kids will begin to take over the handling of their music and how it is marketed inand to society which will hopefully provide new and exciting ideas (Dhani being the driving force of Rockband). 

And Giles Martin did great work on 'Love', as well.  He really has a profound understanding of his Father's production.

E is for 'Ergent'.
15 September 2012
7.42pm
meanmistermustard
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SatanHimself said

meanmistermustard said
I dont see them becoming old hat or less relevant or however it can be put but who knows what will happen in 10/20 years. The beatles kids will begin to take over the handling of their music and how it is marketed inand to society which will hopefully provide new and exciting ideas (Dhani being the driving force of Rockband). 

And Giles Martin did great work on 'Love', as well.  He really has a profound understanding of his Father's production.

Forgot all about that and Giles is said to be working on some top secret project which is meant to be incredibly exciting. Will do the Beatles image the world of good with young blood bringing a fresh approach to their music and its great that Paul, Ringo, Yoko and Olivia recognise that.

He told us not to get overwhelmed by grief and whatever thoughts we have... to keep them happy, because any thoughts we have of him will travel to him wherever he is. (John Lennon - 27/8/67)
23 September 2012
5.42am
mr. Sun king coming together
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After seeing tonight's SNL, I can guarantee you it's a no. You had 4 lads in London at a bar for one's (Host Joseph Gordon Levitt's character) bachelor party. A Beatles cover band played "You've Got To Hide Your Love Away". With Jason Sudeikis, Bill Hader and Keenan Thompson, the 4 lads shared their Beatles stories, and sang the chorus with everyone in the bar.
I put this here because the media loves the Beatles; the constant media attention will keep the young'uns coming till the end.

I tried to think of something powerful and moving… and failed.  "You were given a choice between war and dishonor - you chose dishonor, and you shall have war" - Winston Churchill
23 September 2012
7.29am
annab93
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a-hard-days-night-ringo-8 that's really cool! I hope that things like that will encourage young people to get into the Beatles' music (like "Across The Universe" did for me).

You make your own dream.
23 September 2012
8.58am
The Walrus
Working for the national health
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mr. Sun king coming together said
 I derive no pleasure from being a fan of the Beatles. I derive the pleasure from their music. If you enjoy the music, why should you care if your friends or acquaintances know them? I think this thread is misguided. It shouldn't matter if they're still popular amongst my generation - if you like the music, then anyone else liking is useless information. Or it should be.

Why do you post here if not for the fun you get from speaking to other people who share your passion?

Humans are a social animal and we derive immense pleasure from conversation. I think the world would be a better place (not in a "Give Peace A Chance" way) if I could talk to my friends about rock music, or science fiction, or politics, or football, or whatever else it is that I am interested in. If suddenly the whole world stopped wanting to talk about rock... :shudder:

And I neeeeeeeeed her all the time
23 September 2012
11.18pm
Wildcat
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To The Walrus: I emphatically agree with every word you wrote, and must say I'm a bit disappointed in mr. sun king coming together's viewpoint, since I enjoy reading his replies and have a great respect for his knowledge.

Although I personally am not a very social person at all, I certainly "derive immense pleasure from (internet) conversation." I don't know if the world is a better place now or not, but this form of communicating with other people who share my passion for The Beatles has opened up a wealth of "immense pleasure" and well-spent time reading some brilliant commentary and analysis, while being able to share my thoughts and the 45-plus years of wonderful Beatles' memories that take up most of me gulliver space.

It's no coincidence that, of all the websites devoted to a variety of different subjects I regularly visit, Beatles fans are amongst the most interesting, articulate and friendly people I've had the pleasure of 'conversing' with. Sometimes I like to think I'm some highly-knowledgable scholar of The Beatles' history and music, simply because I've had a lot more years to research and revisit their original albums many more times over than most. Repetition, in other words, is how I've learned as much as I have.

But I couldn't retain any amount of knowledge in a subject I didn't absolutely love. When I read comments on threads like this, they can be simple or complex, knowledgable or inquisitive, silly or serious. Some of the Topics on this forum allow people to express themselves in whatever fashion they like, and reading something like a description of their favorite album or song, even if it's a one-sentence contribution to a discussion, is a pleasure for me. One commenter on a thread I was just looking at wrote about how one of their favorite Beatle "song fragments" was the middle-eight part of 'No Reply', when John and Paul come together at "If I were you.."

Hey, I love that part, too! I get that 'giddy' feeling when they crescendo at the "rea-lise that I.." part, and I love it that they want to share that with the rest of us! This person could be completely clueless about them otherwise, not even being able to name all four members, but what difference does it make?

I can write a lot of sappy, crappy things, drag on and on, and take up an entire screen with my ramblings. But when it comes to The Beatles, I don't care. I just don't care. Because I am enjoying every minute of every thought that I'm typing out my memories and thoughts and observations- Every Little Thing, For No One or Nowhere, Man, even if It's All Too Much, and I would Love You To try and stop me!

So when The Walrus asks: "Why do you post here if not for the fun you get from speaking to other people who share your passion?", I really have to wonder the same thing myself.

Either way, whether it's Hello Goodbye or No Reply, I'll Be Back. I'm Happy Just To Dance With You, The End.heart

23 September 2012
11.37pm
meanmistermustard
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Wildcat, we must be quite similar as i also am not a social person but really enjoy being here (and a few other discussion forums).

He told us not to get overwhelmed by grief and whatever thoughts we have... to keep them happy, because any thoughts we have of him will travel to him wherever he is. (John Lennon - 27/8/67)
24 September 2012
12.22am
mr. Sun king coming together
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I most certainly did not mean to imply I derive no enjoyment from this forum, and frankly I have no idea why I said that. I did not mean to say or imply that I don't love talking or discussing the Beatles. That post was driven by pure annoyance, not the truth. I'm sorry if I implied or said otherwise.

I tried to think of something powerful and moving… and failed.  "You were given a choice between war and dishonor - you chose dishonor, and you shall have war" - Winston Churchill
24 September 2012
1.31am
annab93
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meanmistermustard said
Wildcat, we must be quite similar as i also am not a social person but really enjoy being here (and a few other discussion forums).

I'm in your boat as well. Definitely not as social in person. It's easier for me to sit here and type than it is to formulate spoken sentences. 

Going along (kinda) with the topic, my friend gave me an Abbey Road zip-up hoodie yesterday. I was so happy that she thought of me when she saw it!

You make your own dream.
24 September 2012
9.20pm
Wildcat
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mr. Sun king coming together

Uh-oh, you sound a lot like me, gettin' in bad moods and whatnot. I'm usually pretty good at keeping it hidden, but family and (true) friends understand when I'm pitching some bitching & Let It Be. It was just your turn, Sun king, and nothing to get hung about.

annab93, did I see comments from you over at the 'Deep Beatles' column that Kit O'Toole does? If anyone here reads that, I just found it myself a few weeks ago, and love it! I don't think Kit likes me much, though - I wrote one of my novel-length comments about her latest post, making a case for the song 'Mr. Moonlight', and tried submitting but it never went through!

Anyway, seems like you, me and meanmistermustard share something in common besides The Beatles - we're just better than most people. Not really much we can do about that, is there? It all goes back to that "most interesting, articulate and friendly people" thing I was writing earlier. That's really what was behind the bad mood mr. Sun king coming together was in - that "pure annoyance" he mentioned was, in fact, an 'outside agitator' who distracted him from the important people like us who hang out here once in awhile.

Sorry to be sounding so upbeat on a Monday, I know that's ridiculous, but I just got the best news this morning that has put me in Stupidly Happy Land - a really, reeaallyy crappy job assignment I've had for the past six months is OVER! Over, over, OVER!!!

When I use bold, underline AND italics all at once, you KNOW that can't be bad!! But I don't have time to bore everyone with the details right now, so just look for the extra-long post I'll be writing later & be sure to avoid it, I won't be offended.

Carry on, friends, and [insert hilarious Beatles' song title reference of your choice]

7 November 2012
6.14pm
bikelock28
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I'm 16 and among all the other teenagers I know (which is a lot), pretty much everyone has heard of the Beatles but about 40%couldn't name you a song. There's a lot of people I know who claim they "don't know any Beatles songs" but when you mention Yesterday, Let It Be, Hey Jude, AYNIL, A Hard Day's Night, Here Comes The Sun, With A Little Help, Yellow Submarine, In My Life...."Oh, I've heard that! Is that really the Beatles?". I know around 20 keen fans (I'm classifying keen as knowing which order the albums are in, having heard nearly all of them and having some sort of thought-out opinion about which is the best song or album or year or Beatle) and about 3 other hardcore Beatlemaniacs.

 

Anyway, maybe that was all a bit irrelevant becuase what I was really going to say was that last night- while I was staying up waiting to hear the results of the US election- I came up with a little theory as to why Beatle fans may be a "dying breed" nowadays. So here goes (I'm classifying a  _0s kid as anyone old enough to remember the decade; I was born the 90s but I don't remember a great deal of it:

  • 50s/60s kids were/are obviously the original trailblazers cos they experienced the whole wonderful thing as it happened
  • 70s kids would be aware of the Beatles because the break-up stuff was still going on and of course there were the solo careers to follow- the Beatles were still important in music and culture
  • 80s kids could also follow the solo careers, and of course John's murder re-ignited enthusiasm for the Beatles
  • 90s kids had the release of the Anthology and sub-Beatle-y britpop
  • 2000s/2010s kids- there hasn't been any big Beatle-y thing which gets the whole population excited about the Beatles, which is perhaps why Beatle fans are a "dying breed"

As I say its just a generalised theory (there are obviously exceptions, including myself and the other younger members here), it might only apply in the UK and it may well be totally wrong anyway. But I just thought I'd share it.a-hard-days-night-john-1

"I don't think we were actually swimming, as it were, with shirts on, 'cos we always wear overcoats when we're swimming,"-

George Harrison, Australia, June 1964

7 November 2012
8.45pm
unknown
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I thought the remasters, Rock Band, and then them going onto iTunes were all pretty big, and many clothes stores for younger people will have Beatles shirts. I would say they're still pretty big.

All living things must abide by the laws of the shape they inhabit
7 November 2012
9.27pm
meanmistermustard
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Something will explode in the next few years IF Apple get the 50 year anniversaries right and not give us mundane compilations and half hearted releases.

And without trying to offend, when Paul is no longer with us there is going to be a colossal level of tributes, grief and praise that will last for a time. His solo and Beatles music will be everywhere along with everything else he has done. Not meaning to be callous but that will create new fans, its the same when most successful musicians die.

He told us not to get overwhelmed by grief and whatever thoughts we have... to keep them happy, because any thoughts we have of him will travel to him wherever he is. (John Lennon - 27/8/67)
8 November 2012
2.58pm
parlance
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bikelock28 said

As I say its just a generalised theory (there are obviously exceptions, including myself and the other younger members here), it might only apply in the UK and it may well be totally wrong anyway. But I just thought I'd share it.a-hard-days-night-john-1

 

I grew up in Chicago in the 70s/80s (discovered them through the American cartoon) and your observations are very astute.

 

parlance

Beware of sadness. It can hit you. It can hurt you. Make you sore and what is more, that is not what you are here for. - George

Check out my fan video for Paul's song "Appreciate" at YouTube and Vimeo.

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