An allegory of the Lennon/McCartney symbiosis & synergy -- and of their "break-up" | Yesterday... and today | Fab forum

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An allegory of the Lennon/McCartney symbiosis & synergy -- and of their "break-up"
15 November 2012
6.10am
Funny Paper
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I couldn't post this topic in the Lennon section, or in the McCartney section, since I'm referring to a certain level on which the two of them were fused in artistic synergy, during those "golden years".

 

The allegory my title refers to may make some of you chuckle with amusement.  There was an old Star Trek episode (from the original series) where Captain Kirk gets split into two Kirks -- a good Kirk, and a bad Kirk.  The problem with the good Kirk, however, was that although he had qualities of kindness and intelligence, he was too wimpy and passive and could not take charge when the ship needed him.

 

The problem with the bad Kirk was that although he was quite capable of being aggressive and taking command, he was also arrogant, rude and sometimes hot tempered.

 

I think you guys know where I'm going with this...

 

At the end of the episode (if memory serves me) the two Kirks confront each other, and they realize that neither one of them alone is any good, and that they need to "fuse" again into one.

 

Of course, the post-Beatles McCartney is the "good Kirk", and the post-Beatles Lennon is the "bad Kirk".a-hard-days-night-paul-10

 

As for George, I think he would have made a good Spock.a-hard-days-night-george-4

 

(I'm sorry I have no place for Ringo on board the Enterprise -- unless "Scotty" the engineer would do:  We all live in a Yellow Star Ship, a Yellow Star Ship, a Yellow Star Ship...)a-hard-days-night-ringo-14

 

Okay, I'm going now.

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15 November 2012
4.59pm
kedame
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I think most people who have worked with Paul would probably argue that he has lots of the "bad Kirk" qualities, such as bossiness (ask George), controlling tendencies (again, ask George), and ego (according to George M.).

While interesting, I feel this scenario plays right into the old trope that Paul was the soft, good guy, while John was the badass, edgy guy. They could both be both, I think.

I watched the 2009 Star Trek movie around the time I started listening to The Beatles, and I always saw Paul as Kirk and John as Spock.

"You can manicure a cat but can you caticure a man?" John Lennon- Skywriting by Word of Mouth
15 November 2012
7.22pm
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kedame said
I think most people who have worked with Paul would probably argue that he has lots of the "bad Kirk" qualities, such as bossiness (ask George), controlling tendencies (again, ask George), and ego (according to George M.).

While interesting, I feel this scenario plays right into the old trope that Paul was the soft, good guy, while John was the badass, edgy guy. They could both be both, I think.

I watched the 2009 Star Trek movie around the time I started listening to The Beatles, and I always saw Paul as Kirk and John as Spock.

Yes, but my point is that Paul was that way because he was "with John" in the Beatles context.  The post-Beatles context is where their imperfect selves began to flounder, because each one was "less than whole" without the other.

 

That's the theory, anyway.  I realize it's exaggerating things, but I think on a certain level they were kind of that way.  It's a way certain lovers feel -- they are so close they feel as though one.  John probably felt that way about Yoko, Paul about Linda -- but on a certain unique level, perhaps no one in the universe could have supplied for Paul what John did, and vice versa, during those golden years of music-making.

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15 November 2012
7.31pm
meanmistermustard
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You cant put John into this category and Paul into this as thats not how people are.

Paul was very capable of taking command and to be in the beatles you couldnt be passive. You cant call Paul passive when he stood up to the other 3 beatles when he believed, correctly they were being screwed by Klein; his refusal to sign caused a huge division between the 4. It would have been easier to bend and give in. 

And John had a very tender, loving side to his character.

He told us not to get overwhelmed by grief and whatever thoughts we have... to keep them happy, because any thoughts we have of him will travel to him wherever he is. (John Lennon - 27/8/67)
15 November 2012
7.37pm
Funny Paper
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meanmistermustard said
You cant put John into this category and Paul into this as thats not how people are.

Paul was very capable of taking command and to be in the beatles you couldnt be passive. You cant call Paul passive when he stood up to the other 3 beatles when he believed, correctly they were being screwed by Klein; his refusal to sign caused a huge division between the 4. It would have been easier to bend and give in. 

And John had a very tender, loving side to his character.

That's what I said in my reply to kedame above.  I'm not saying Paul -- during part of the Beatles time -- was wimpy and passive; that's because he was "fused" with John.  Obviously, I don't mean that literally, and I've already expressed all the caveats I could possibly express, yet people will still misinterpret.  Oh well.

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15 November 2012
11.23pm
meanmistermustard
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Paul was very controlling over most things Wings related and that caused issues between himself and other members leading to some quitting plus he has built up a very prolific business empire worth hundred of millions. Plus you could say John was very passive with all things related to Yoko thru-out the 70's.

Again even if its outside of the beatles era you cant put people in a bracket and say this is them, no person works to a forumula. Undoubtedly John and Paul had different personalities, fitted beautifully together as a friendship and partnership, and offered different aspects to the beatles but you cant say that they didnt have the other qualiities after the split. Paul could be a bigger ass than John and talk down to people outside of the beatles; he was a manipulator in being able to make people agree with him and get his way. 

 

I remember reading a story that the guy who played the solo in My Love, cant remember his name, wanted to do it differently every night when Wings played it live. Paul stubbornly refused and insisted that the solo must match the record, the guy got pissed off but played it straight however it added to the flames and eventually he quit. And Paul didnt bend to the public and not add Linda to Wings.

He told us not to get overwhelmed by grief and whatever thoughts we have... to keep them happy, because any thoughts we have of him will travel to him wherever he is. (John Lennon - 27/8/67)
27 June 2014
2.35am
parlance
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This is the closest I could find to a thread about the Lennon/McCartney relationship, so, x-posting from the news thread:

A new article on the Lennon/McCartney relationship at The Atlantic.

And @Ahhh Girl smartly pointed out that the article was written by this BBF poster.

parlance

Beware of sadness. It can hit you. It can hurt you. Make you sore and what is more, that is not what you are here for. - George

Check out my fan video for Paul's song "Appreciate" at YouTube and Vimeo.

27 June 2014
2.49am
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"This is the closest I could find to a thread about the Lennon/McCartney relationship"

wow, that's odd that this forum has had no other threads on that!

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27 June 2014
2.53am
Ahhh Girl
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Do you think we create one or re-title your thread @Funny Paper?

27 June 2014
4.41am
parlance
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Funny Paper said
"This is the closest I could find to a thread about the Lennon/McCartney relationship"

wow, that's odd that this forum has had no other threads on that!

Yeah, that really surprised me as well.

parlance

Beware of sadness. It can hit you. It can hurt you. Make you sore and what is more, that is not what you are here for. - George

Check out my fan video for Paul's song "Appreciate" at YouTube and Vimeo.

27 June 2014
11.14am
Joe
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parlance said

This is the closest I could find to a thread about the Lennon/McCartney relationship, so, x-posting from the news thread:

A new article on the Lennon/McCartney relationship at The Atlantic.

And @Ahhh Girl smartly pointed out that the article was written by this BBF poster.

parlance

I'm glad to see this finally published. I've exchanged emails with Josh over the years, helping him with contacts and facts for his book (of which this is just a part). It's a good article. I also loved the unintentionally hilariously pompous first comment beneath.

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27 June 2014
2.10pm
parlance
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Joe said
 

I also loved the unintentionally hilariously pompous first comment beneath.

Yes! I was so tempted to say "You are, of course, bloviating," but bit my tongue. So I'm saying it here. ;-)

It's a terrific article. I'm glad to see someone bust the myth of Paul and John hating each other. Even the person who got me back into the Beatles was of that opinion, and it kind of shocks me every time I hear that since I didn't grow up with that opinion.

parlance

Beware of sadness. It can hit you. It can hurt you. Make you sore and what is more, that is not what you are here for. - George

Check out my fan video for Paul's song "Appreciate" at YouTube and Vimeo.

27 June 2014
5.20pm
parlance
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Something felt familiar about the article, and then a poster at another forum pointed out that he is the same author of the three part series on John and Paul's relationship at Slate, which starts here.

parlance

Beware of sadness. It can hit you. It can hurt you. Make you sore and what is more, that is not what you are here for. - George

Check out my fan video for Paul's song "Appreciate" at YouTube and Vimeo.

28 June 2014
7.16pm
Linde
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It is surprising that there aren't a lot of threads about their relationship, as there are threads about George's relationship with John and Paul and probably some of Ringo too.

Anyway, thanks for posting the articles. I've always found this an interesting subject, so will definitely read them!

The following people thank Linde for this post:

parlance
28 June 2014
7.26pm
Annadog40
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ahdn_paul_06 I think it is cause the John and Paul relationship is everywhere and the other relationships are under explored.

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16 August 2014
3.15pm
parlance
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Hey Dullblog has a series on the Joshua Shenk article and John and Paul's relationship: 1 2 3

parlance

Beware of sadness. It can hit you. It can hurt you. Make you sore and what is more, that is not what you are here for. - George

Check out my fan video for Paul's song "Appreciate" at YouTube and Vimeo.

25 August 2014
7.10pm
StrawberryFieldsForever
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Don't think this belongs here but here I go: I was wondering as to why Paul included Linda in the Wings and wiki tells me that Paul wanted Linda to be always around him which resulted in Linda joining the band. So, while the other three had a problem with Ono being in the studios during the recording (which I understand would have been, and was, very stifling) Paul did the same thing when asking Linda to join him. Which just makes me realize that John and Paul were, in short, the two sides of the same coin. 

Nothing against Paul. On the contrary I just wanted to highlight how brotherly they were all throughout and I now sort of understand the 'brotherly competition' they both had. And how difficult it must have been for Paul to realize what hit him when John left. Probably much more than Ono.a-hard-days-night-paul-7

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