Do You Want To Know A Secret? | The songs | Fab forum

Please consider registering
Guest

Log In Register

Register | Lost password?
Advanced Search

— Forum Scope —

  

— Match —

   

— Forum Options —

   

Wildcard usage:
*  matches any number of characters    %  matches exactly one character

Minimum search word length is 4 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters

Do You Want To Know A Secret?
13 October 2012
3.53pm
Fab4Fan
San Francisco, California, U.S.A.
A Beginning
Forum Posts: 5
Member Since:
6 October 2012
Offline

First, this is an amazing site! Thanks to those who helped on my first question posted just 8 days ago. I only created my account late last week and it feels great to be surrounded by kindred spirits. Almost more importantly, I'm so grateful to be in touch with those who are actually bigger fans of THE BEATLES than I am and can answer some of my Fab Four questions.

Now, my next questions. While taking back to back "Magical Mystery Tours" on consecutive days in Liverpool during the summer of 2000, the tour guides claimed that John Lennon wrote "Do You Want To Know A Secret?" based on a line that Cynthia Lennon used to him to broach the subject of Brian Epstein's homosexuality. "Listen, Do You Want To Know A Secret?"

I know that John says that he based the song on "Wishing Well" from "Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs". He also wrote the song while living in Brian's "secret" apartment that had been previously used for homosexual liaisons.

It's not really possible that John didn't know that Brian was gay by late 1962 or early 1963.

Therefore, is it believable that Cynthia didn't realize that John knew about Brian's homosexuality when they first got married and moved into Brian's apartment? Maybe she just didn't know about the prior purpose of where she was currently living.

Were my "Magical Mystery Tour" guides embellishing the truth?

Could John and Cynthia living in Brian's "secret" apartment sparked the writing of the song – the secret being the apartment itself and not Brian's sexual orientation? Or the fact that the rest of the world didn't know about Brian?

How plausible is it that John gave the song to George Harrison to sing since he may have wanted to divert any more attention from Brian than he was already getting? (I know that this is a stretch and they wanted to give George a song for "Please Please Me", but now I'm beginning to wonder.)

OK, leave it to the new "Beatles Bible" member from San Francisco to ask such questions, but if I was led astray by my Liverpool tour guides, I'd like to know.

Thanks in advance for your help!

My ALL TIME FAVORITE fortune found in a cookie after dining out at a Chinese restaurant: "And in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make."
13 October 2012
4.56pm
linkjws
The Star-Club
Forum Posts: 68
Member Since:
25 September 2012
Offline

I am new as well, and really enjoy this site and forum.  I had been reading the site for about a year before I made my account and its a great place.  Also love any questions because we get to see what people who have been die-hard Beatle fans for longer then I have been alive, and well I get to put my two cents in so its nice. 

 

I think it sounds like embellishment, but thats just my take on it all.  John may have been inspired by all of those factors but unfortunately we will never know beyond what has already been said =/   

13 October 2012
6.25pm
meanmistermustard
Moderator



Forum Posts: 9305
Member Since:
1 May 2011
Offline

I think its pure fabrication personally and have no reason to doubt John's account of being inspired by his mother singing the line when younger. John was candid about most things throughout the 70's so why not that. There is nothing more to George singing DYWTKAS than John giving him a song to sing, i dont think John felt he could sing it himself anyway, tho neither did George  when looking back on it.

All the beatles knew Brian was gay early on in their time together but were more intrigued than anything, it certainly wasnt an issue.

 

Welcome to the site by the way both of you. Feel free to ask anything and post like mad.

"Well, probably we'll sell less records, less people'll go to see the film, we'll write less songs, and we'll all die of failure" (John Lennon 8/64)
15 October 2012
9.49am
Joe
Pepperland
Admin
Forum Posts: 3409
Member Since:
31 March 2008
Offline

Hi Fab4Fan. I've never heard that story before, and (for all it's worth) I've read as many quotes and interviews by The Beatles about their songs as I can get my hands on. However, in Liverpool there's a strong tradition of folklore, and stories you won't hear anywhere else get passed around, so it *may* be true. Alternatively (and I mean this quite affectionately), the Scousers can bullshit like the best of them, so I'd be tempted to put it in the fabrication category.

Please don't spoil my day; I'm miles away

Can buy me love! Please consider using these links to support the Beatles Bible: Amazon | iTunes

16 October 2012
4.01pm
Sitting on a cornflake
as above, in an Italian garden
Carnegie Hall
Forum Posts: 203
Member Since:
13 April 2011
Offline

Hi – yes I've heard this story before too, and the subject of possible BE/JL gay relationship it comes up quite a lot in the latest JL biography, and indeed that the song title at least is about this.

Let's not forget the two went off on holiday togtether just after Julian was born, leaving poor Cynth at home with the new-born!

a-hard-days-night-ringo-6

16 October 2012
4.13pm
fabfouremily
Sitting in an English garden
Apple rooftop
Forum Posts: 2927
Member Since:
3 May 2012
Offline

I don't think there was anything to that though. John and Brian were good friends, as well as colleagues of sort. Nobody says anything when anybody else goes on holiday with their friend/s, so why is this any different?

The only thing that I have heard from a reliable source (or something close) is that John was inspired by the start of the Disney song, and that's the only thing I'm likely to believe.

''We're just knocked out. We heard about the sell out. You gotta get an album out, you owe it to the people. We're so happy we can hardly count.''

16 October 2012
4.16pm
Sitting on a cornflake
as above, in an Italian garden
Carnegie Hall
Forum Posts: 203
Member Since:
13 April 2011
Offline

Well song title/inspiration there are all sorts of stories really … even the fact that BE kileld himself is that his love for JL was unrequited, or even that he pushed and promoted them so hard at the beginning becuase he was so 'in love' with them.

a-hard-days-night-paul-10

16 October 2012
4.25pm
fabfouremily
Sitting in an English garden
Apple rooftop
Forum Posts: 2927
Member Since:
3 May 2012
Offline

Sitting on a cornflake said
Well song title/inspiration there are all sorts of stories really … even the fact that BE kileld himself is that his love for JL was unrequited, or even that he pushed and promoted them so hard at the beginning becuase he was so 'in love' with them.

a-hard-days-night-paul-10

Yeah I've heard all kinds of things – it's really quite amusing reading them all.

And I'm sure that Brian did push them a lot. I would say that it was because he could see a good buisness oportunity in them though.

''We're just knocked out. We heard about the sell out. You gotta get an album out, you owe it to the people. We're so happy we can hardly count.''

16 October 2012
4.27pm
Sitting on a cornflake
as above, in an Italian garden
Carnegie Hall
Forum Posts: 203
Member Since:
13 April 2011
Offline

Well he certainly had a "flair" and good taste for young men!

God rest his soul … 

mal-evans

16 October 2012
4.53pm
meanmistermustard
Moderator



Forum Posts: 9305
Member Since:
1 May 2011
Offline
10

Sorry but stories about a possible requited love relationship experience between John and Brian are complete and utter garbage. The stories have been going for years based on little more than rumour, titilation and selling power, at least since when Bob Wooler made insinuations to a drunk John at a birthday party in 1963 and John battered him senseless.

If something had of happened the beatles would have known and it would have come out at some point, probably during the Anthology, or John would have said something – and all that John said was that Brian was in love with him. In the Anthology book John is quoted as saying that on all that happened on holiday was that John and Brian would sit in cafes and John would say "does he turn you on?" (not a direct quote) and that whilst it was an intense relationship it was never consumated.

I actually think its quite insulting the idea that something had to happen because they went on holiday together. That 2 men, one gay the other not, cannot go on holiday together without them having sex. 

 

The idea that Brian topped himself due to being helplessly in love with John. What next? People believing Paul died and was replaced by a lookalike? Oh. Erm. Maybe there are clues in the songs; one of those authors should spend their nights and days finding out – would save rubbish being printed.

"Well, probably we'll sell less records, less people'll go to see the film, we'll write less songs, and we'll all die of failure" (John Lennon 8/64)
17 October 2012
6.51am
Duke_of_Kirkcaldy
St. Paul, Minnesota, USA
Paris Olympia
Forum Posts: 148
Member Since:
25 August 2012
Offline
11

Sitting on a cornflake said
Hi – yes I've heard this story before too, and the subject of possible BE/JL gay relationship it comes up quite a lot in the latest JL biography, and indeed that the song title at least is about this.

Let's not forget the two went off on holiday togtether just after Julian was born, leaving poor Cynth at home with the new-born!

 

And, months later at Pau's 21st birthday party, John beat the shit out of some guy who implied that said holiday was some sort of clandestine homosexual affair.  ahdn_george_01  As for leaving Cynthia alone with Julian, I'm still inclined to believe they never would have married had John not knocked her up.  Ironically, shortly before that, Paul had been in the same situation with his then-girlfriend Dot Rhone, but ultimately called off the engagement once she had a miscarriage.

 

And what's this about Brian killing himself?  I always thought his overdose was ruled as accidental, a la Heath Ledger's.  ahdn_george_01

17 October 2012
1.33pm
Joe
Pepperland
Admin
Forum Posts: 3409
Member Since:
31 March 2008
Offline
12

He had at least one suicide attempt before then. There was a note, to his mother I think.

Please don't spoil my day; I'm miles away

Can buy me love! Please consider using these links to support the Beatles Bible: Amazon | iTunes

Forum Timezone: Europe/London

Most Users Ever Online: 597

Currently Online: Beatleva
47 Guest(s)

Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)

Top Posters:

meanmistermustard: 9305

mr. Sun king coming together: 6916

parlance: 4934

mithveaen: 4651

Ahhh Girl: 4566

Zig: 3739

Annadog40: 3705

Mr. Kite: 3320

Ron Nasty: 2975

fabfouremily: 2927

Member Stats:

Guest Posters: 87

Members: 2524

Moderators: 4

Admins: 2

Forum Stats:

Groups: 3

Forums: 34

Topics: 3172

Posts: 130101

Newest Members: SaxonMothersSon, HAWAIIBEATLESFAN, all8daysaweek, batbear, mal evans

Moderators: Ahhh Girl (4566), meanmistermustard (9305), Zig (3739), Joe (3409)

Administrators: Joe (3409), Ellie (1)

Members Birthdays
Today: None
Upcoming: Filipe