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Can we all agree … or not?
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31 May 2014
2.58pm
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Annadog40
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ahdn_paul_06 It could also depend on the people voting cause if their were ten of me voting then Piggies would be in the top ten.

Never say never cause it's never 'never'

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31 May 2014
5.18pm
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vonbontee
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Into the Sky with Diamonds said

@vonbontee [regarding the "Michelle" discussion above]

"Actually, I'd suspect the Grammys had more integrity in the mid-'60s! My chief complaint with them is that, for as long as I've been aware of them, they seem to regard huge record sales as the chief mark of greatness. How else to explain such timeless "Record of the Year" winners as Toto IV, Natalie Cole's Unforgettable, orThe Bodyguard soundtrack?"

Well doesn't that bolster the value of "Michelle"? It wasn't even released as a single, so it had zero record sales (except as part of Rubber Soul of course). If Grammy voters generally go with the big sales, they had to be REALLY be impressed with "Michelle" to vote it Song of the Year.

Again, this is not to say that the song deserves to be in our Top 10 or that our tastes have to mesh with Grammy voters of 50 years ago, but I'm surprised that such a classic has not even made it to the top half of our list. That's either a result of our small sample size or a sign that the song has not stood the test of time.

lol okay, fair enough, you've got me! You've turned me completely around…Call "Michelle's" nomination the exception that proves the rule! :D

I probably should have engaged your comments rather than just reacting instantly at the citation of the Grammy Awards. I think "Michelle" is mostly just great and would happily put it in the top, uhhh, 40. And in this case, I do appreciate the nomination under the terms you propose, in the same way I appreciate the enshrinement of "Yesterday" as a standard, and Frank Sinatra's famous endorsement of "Something". (Both of which are also Top 40 in my book.) Because all the appreciation from these "legitimate" tastemakers just illustrate this band's multifaceted greatness all the more.

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Into the Sky with Diamonds

I remember George saying 'Blimey, he's always talking about “Yesterday”, you'd think he was Beethoven or somebody' - Paul McCartney

31 May 2014
5.43pm
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Annadog40
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13 June 2014
10.06pm
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Bulldog
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I just now checked the results that were in the results thread. Wow, some of it kind of offends me. Yes It Is, What You're Doing, One After 909, Matchbox, and Piggies are all much lower than I would have put them. They should at least be above... well, I don't know, but I think they all should have beaten Bad Boy. That song is pretty unremarkable in my opinion (the vocals are good, but... eh), and am I the only one that likes Slow Downa-hard-days-night-john-7 Probably.

Then again, when it comes to Beatles songs, almost any cut is difficult. At least Old Brown Shoe and I'm Down aren't out yet. a-hard-days-night-paul-5a-hard-days-night-george-3(Although they obviously won't either be in the Top 5, that's what I expect anyway.)

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14 June 2014
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Linde
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21 February 2015
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meanmistermustard
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Here

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vonbontee
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22 February 2015
12.32am
Wigwam
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Ron Nasty said

IveJustSeenAFaceo said

mja6758 said
There is no way
Free As A Bird or Real Love can be considered a part of the canon. Every other Beatles recording released, including the BBC stuff, the Star Club recordings, the Tony Sheridan recordings, the Decca audition, and the archive Anthology material would come above those.

There is one simple reason, whatever anybody's personal feelings about them may be - negative or positive, they do not feature, and could not feature, the active participation of John. If this is to be done, it should be solely restricted to the core canon as settled in 1987 with the initial CD releases.

Above? I'd put them at least equal with them.

Above. John was not present, had no input, and no say on Free as a Bird or Real Love. I'm the Greatest or All Those Years Ago have more claim to being considered part of the canon. I'm sorry, the canon is what the group released while they were an ACTIVE band. Paul, George and Ringo overdubbing John demos was not The Beatles, whatever name you put it out under.

 

 

 I was listening to them recently and was staggered to discover, (after your assertion that John Lennon had 'no input' in these songs), that John had a hand in both of them….. it actually turns out that he wrote them and sang lead vocals……….

Mind you, if you don't think……overdubbing a lead vocal was something the Beatles routinely did in their recording career then that could explain your misconception of a word like 'input'.

The circumstances dictate that we cannot treat these two songs as normal Beatle recordings…..But it is the Beatles and I would argue John's creative input here is greater than many of the Beatle covers that he sang on.

 

You're entitled to your opinion of course ………..and I'm entitled to contest it.

22 February 2015
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meanmistermustard
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Lack of input to me means John could not at any point say if he wanted to change, adapt, remove, suggest, add etc any part of either 'Real Love' or 'Free As A Bird'. They were unfinished demo's, who knows what John had in mind for them as studio recordings - if anything. We have no idea if John would have said "fine, go with that as i don't want to be involved but do what you want with these two tracks Yoko thinks would work" or if he would have refused any part of a reunion or if he would have been fully involved. One of the biggest most important agreements the four Beatles had thru-out the 60's was that all four had to agree or at the very least not object to a release, if one didn't like it it didn't happen - a fundamental part of Paul's legal argument to split the Beatles up after Klein came in and became his manager (and Pul won). And on these John didnt and for all the want in the world Yoko is not John (and yes she is in control of John's estate as assigned by John before he died). Its not enough to say three Beatles + a demo of John's from 20 years ago = a full Beatles recording. Overdubbing onto a demo of someone's who is since dead is not even close to being the same thing as overdubbing a lead vocal whilst alive because if you are alive you have (more than likely) agreed to it.

I don't see how you can say @Wigwam that you "would argue John's creative input here is greater than many of the Beatle covers that he sang on" as its not as, again, on those covers John agreed to record them and actively made suggestions on the musicianship and put his name to them, on these two reunion tracks he didn't as he couldn't. At least with 'Real Love' John worked on it frequently, with 'FAAB' he forget about it pretty quickly.

I am completely against these two songs being part of the same canon as all the songs released on the 12 UK albums from 'Please Please Me' thru to 'Let It Be', the US 'MMT' and the 1988 compilation 'Past Masters'.

On the same level as all the studio outakes and exclusive tracks performed for the BBC? I doubt it as once again on all of those John could contribute to what those tracks were they performed/recorded and their arrangements.  

I have no idea how you can say @Wigwam that you "would argue John's creative input here is greater than many of the Beatle covers that he sang on" as its clealy not.

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