Strawberry Fields and Penny Lane On Sgt Pepper? | Sgt Pepper | Fab forum

Please consider registering
Guest

Log In Register

Register | Lost password?
Advanced Search

— Forum Scope —

  
 

— Match —

   

— Forum Options —

   

Minimum search word length is 4 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters

Strawberry Fields and Penny Lane On Sgt Pepper?
11 August 2013
7.57am
LadyBay
Following The Sun
London Palladium
Forum Posts: 106
Member Since:
16 July 2013
Offline

I have come across two comments recently (probably not new) along the lines of "Strawberry Fields/Penny Lane should have been on Sgt Pepper rather than being released as singles" . It's an interesting thought - what would that have added to an already exceptional album? Would that have made it truly stratospheric in terms of quality and innovation? What effect would it have had on the impact of those two songs if they had been tracks on the album rather than an individual release?

And which two songs would you drop to make room for SF/PL?   

I love the album as it is but the thought of those two tracks on it is mouth-watering. 

The two I would drop (hard choice) would be Fixing A Hole and Within You Without You, the first because I think it is a weaker song and the second because I think it would be better suited to another album.

 

"Try to realise it's all within yourself - no-one else can make you change"

11 August 2013
1.26pm
SatanHimself
Hades-on-Leith
Candlestick Park
Forum Posts: 696
Member Since:
16 August 2012
Offline

I like the idea of the two songs being included as "the opening act".  Placed at the beginning of the album, and then after "Penny Lane" fades out, the audience noise very slowly grows over a minute the point of the intro to "SPLHCB".

But I personally wouldn't want to lose any of the songs or swap the running order.

E is for 'Ergent'.
11 August 2013
1.57pm
Ron Nasty
"Where have you been?" "I'm not telling you..."
Apple rooftop
Forum Posts: 3410
Member Since:
17 December 2012
Offline

It's an interesting one. The truth is they were, along with When I'm 64, the first songs recorded that was originally intended to be a reflection on their Liverpool childhoods and backgrounds. The idea was only scrapped when a single was demanded. It could have been Strawberry Fields and When I'm 64 (a song played at their last Cavern appearance in 63 when the power gave out!).
I argued over on the main site a few weeks ago, that it was a shame Capitol's MMT was included as one of the core albums, because it left a large 1967 shaped hole in the middle of Past Masters, the only year not represented. I still think the same, and it's how I have in my playlist. I don't object to the album, but the album is two singles, a double ep, and a stray a-side.

"I only said we were bigger than Rod... and now there's all this!" Ron Nasty
11 August 2013
2.16pm
Tea and Sympathy
The Jacaranda
Forum Posts: 32
Member Since:
3 August 2013
Offline

I'd like to propose a trade:  Pepper gets Strawberry Fields and in return Magical Mystery Tour gets Mr. Kite. I feel like the schizoid circus that is Mr. Kite fits more with the themes of MMT anyway.

Don't you know? It's gonna be alright. (Shoo-bee-doo-wop)
15 August 2013
6.46am
Von Bontee
A Hole In The Road
Apple rooftop
Forum Posts: 2227
Member Since:
14 December 2009
Offline

SatanHimself said

I like the idea of the two songs being included as "the opening act".  Placed at the beginning of the album, and then after "Penny Lane" fades out, the audience noise very slowly grows over a minute the point of the intro to "SPLHCB".

But I personally wouldn't want to lose any of the songs or swap the running order.

This. I spend my time fantasizing about a Beatles For Sale that included "I Feel Fine"/"She's A Woman" and Revolver with "Paperback Writer"/"Rain" added on, so no WAY am I gonna imagine SPLHCB with that single added...yet with two "replacement" tracks (my two least favourites on a fantastic album) missing! There's no reason, other than economic, that SP couldn't have been released as a 15-track album. "Penny Lane" comes right at the end off Side Two (after "Mr. Kite") and "Strawberry Fields Forever" in between two Paul numbers, "When I'm 64" and "Lovely Rita".

One day, a tape-op got a tape on backwards, he went to play it, and it was all "Neeeradno-undowarrroom" and it was "Wow! Sounds Indian!" -- Paul McCartney
15 August 2013
7.27am
LadyBay
Following The Sun
London Palladium
Forum Posts: 106
Member Since:
16 July 2013
Offline

Thanks Von Bontee, now I can't stop thinking about Revolver with Paperback Writer/Rain !

That 15-track album would have been out-of-this-world brilliant.  Economics didn't seem to be an issue when it came to recording SPLHCB so what was the reasoning behind the singles release? 

"Try to realise it's all within yourself - no-one else can make you change"

15 August 2013
7.59am
Von Bontee
A Hole In The Road
Apple rooftop
Forum Posts: 2227
Member Since:
14 December 2009
Offline

mja6758 said

I argued over on the main site a few weeks ago, that it was a shame Capitol's MMT was included as one of the core albums, because it left a large 1967 shaped hole in the middle of Past Masters, the only year not represented. I still think the same, and it's how I have in my playlist. I don't object to the album, but the album is two singles, a double ep, and a stray a-side.

Heh, I used to make the same observation about The Beatles Again. (Silly thing to worry about, but I've always had this real numbers.) Maybe Capitol/EMI/Apple or whoever could've done everyone a favour and included "Christmastime Is Here Again" to represent 1967.

One day, a tape-op got a tape on backwards, he went to play it, and it was all "Neeeradno-undowarrroom" and it was "Wow! Sounds Indian!" -- Paul McCartney
15 August 2013
8.06am
Ron Nasty
"Where have you been?" "I'm not telling you..."
Apple rooftop
Forum Posts: 3410
Member Since:
17 December 2012
Offline

The Beatles had had a UK schedule of (roughly) three singles and two albums a year. Their last new material had been released on 5 August 1966 (Revolver and Eleanor Rigby/Yellow Submarine). EMI wanted something to bridge what was a long gap for the time, and at the time of the request in mid-January there were only three tracks available, Strawberry Fields, Penny Lane and When I'm 64. And so Strawberry Fields and Penny Lane were hived off to avoid what would have become an unheard of ten-month gap between releases.

"I only said we were bigger than Rod... and now there's all this!" Ron Nasty
15 August 2013
10.10am
Linde
The Netherlands
Apple rooftop
Forum Posts: 2244
Member Since:
21 November 2012
Offline

It's almost unbelievable that they released 2 albums a year with good songs on it while artists nowadays can't be bothered for years with releasing something.

15 August 2013
1.43pm
DrBeatle
Boston
Apple rooftop
Forum Posts: 1443
Member Since:
29 November 2012
Offline
10

Linde said
It's almost unbelievable that they released 2 albums a year with good songs on it while artists nowadays can't be bothered for years with releasing something.

Not only that, but singles that were of supremely high quality (as well as B-sides) that WEREN'T EVEN ON THE ALBUMS! So in essence, 34 new songs every year (14 per album x2, plus 3x single/b-side). Ridiculous output...some of my favorite bands that have been around 20 years these days have put out 6-7 albums and tour every few years, and they bitch about it!

"I know you, you know me; one thing I can tell you is you got to be free!"

 

Please Visit My Website, The Rock and Roll Chemist

Twitter: @blackbookblur

 

15 August 2013
5.26pm
meanmistermustard
Moderator



Forum Posts: 11201
Member Since:
1 May 2011
Offline
11

Certainly up to the end of '65 they were endlessly on the go with albums, bbc shows, tours, movies etc but it was a bit more relaxed in '66 when they had a few quieter months at the beginning of the year and at the end. Admittedly The Beatles lp was a double but for '66 onwards they only released new 1 album a year (in the UK MMT was an EP and Yellow Submarine had only 4 new tracks all recorded earlier) and a collection of singles.

Their schedule in '63 and '64 especially when they were conquering the UK and then the World is amazing. Its written so often that it can be taken for granted but go and have a look at how much running around without a breather they did. Bands nowadays bitch if they do a tour without 2 days off between gigs, The Beatles were travelling from city to city overnight for the next show often miles apart as it had all been so badly planned at times fitting in press appearances.

Don’t make your love suffer insecurities, trade the baggage of self to set another one free. ('Paper Skin' - Kendall Payne)
15 August 2013
5.42pm
Ron Nasty
"Where have you been?" "I'm not telling you..."
Apple rooftop
Forum Posts: 3410
Member Since:
17 December 2012
Offline
12

Though, if you take it from when things were recorded, two albums worth - at least - were recorded and released, though not always in the same year, in every year bar 1966 up until they finished off Abbey Road (excluding some additional work on Let It Be at the beginning of 1970, which there remains disagreement about what was done).

"I only said we were bigger than Rod... and now there's all this!" Ron Nasty
16 August 2013
2.06am
Duke_of_Kirkcaldy
St. Paul, Minnesota, USA
Ed Sullivan Show
Forum Posts: 168
Member Since:
25 August 2012
Offline
13

It still frustrates me to no end that arguably the 2 best songs they recorded for Sgt. Pepper didn't even end up on the album, leading to more slight tunes such as "Fixing A Hole" and "Lovely Rita" being included instead.  ahdn_paul_01  I wish they could've stalled the single release by another month or so until they had a lesser tune like "Getting Better" finished and could've used that for the B-side (with SFF likely as the A-side) as a sort of compromise which would've then allowed "Penny Lane" to still be included on the album.

 

One thing that's always puzzled me about Sgt. Pepper: John once said in an interview that the group only had one week to write songs for the album (which is why he looked so unfavorably at most of his own contributions to the album)... yet they were working on the album for a good part of 5 months.  Is this John merely trying to save face for his own lack of inspiration during this time; if not, what could he possibly mean by it (and why say it at all)?  a-hard-days-night-john-7

16 August 2013
2.28am
meanmistermustard
Moderator



Forum Posts: 11201
Member Since:
1 May 2011
Offline
14

Could the Beatles legacy be any greater for what they put out during that period if we had some alternate history? We got one of the best ever albums and one of the best ever singles! Why change that to include a couple of other great songs (Pepper couldn't be received or acclaimed any more by including them and as a complete whole its still an amazing album and listening experience) and release a weaker single?

I really don't get the thinking behind the whole SFF and PL should have been on Pepper to make it better. I suppose its the same as saying cut the White Album down to 14 tracks, and I don't believe doing that would have made that LP any better.

Plus MMT (the album we have now) would have been far weaker with whatever tunes you want knocked off Pepper as there would be no SF and PL to up its quality (Capitol would have still shoved it out).

Don’t make your love suffer insecurities, trade the baggage of self to set another one free. ('Paper Skin' - Kendall Payne)
16 August 2013
2.56am
Duke_of_Kirkcaldy
St. Paul, Minnesota, USA
Ed Sullivan Show
Forum Posts: 168
Member Since:
25 August 2012
Offline
15

meanmistermustard said 
I really don't get the thinking behind the whole SFF and PL should have been on Pepper to make it better. I suppose its the same as saying cut the White Album down to 14 tracks, and I don't believe doing that would have made that LP any better.

Plus MMT (the album we have now) would have been far weaker with whatever tunes you want knocked off Pepper as there would be no SF and PL to up its quality (Capitol would have still shoved it out).

Uh, yes, it would have, because SFF and PL are far superior songs to the vast majority of the songs that ARE on the album.  As I've likely mentioned in this forum before, Sgt. Pepper is the only Beatles album (not including Yellow Submarine) to which Paul did not contribute at least one song that I would qualify as a bona fide 'home run.'  The title track and its reprise are doubles at best; all his other contributions are mere singles, IMO.  Your White Album comparison doesn't work, because trimming it to a single album would've robbed it of a good deal of its personality.  And MMT isn't a true album, anyway; it's half an album that was then filled out with their non-album singles from that year.  a-hard-days-night-paul-11

16 August 2013
3.24am
Ron Nasty
"Where have you been?" "I'm not telling you..."
Apple rooftop
Forum Posts: 3410
Member Since:
17 December 2012
Offline
16

a-hard-days-night-ringo-8 An interesting argument to make since most would consider Pepper was where the power-shift within the group between John and Paul that was already underway became evident. Strange to think you consider something like She's Leaving Home as a "mere single" and not a bona fide "home run" (though maybe a look at some of their singles should divest you of the idea they ever recorded "mere singles": occasionally, yes, the odd "mere b-side", but rarely can it be said that their nearest albums would not have been strengthened in some ways be their orphan a-sides and b-sides).

"I only said we were bigger than Rod... and now there's all this!" Ron Nasty
16 August 2013
3.53am
Duke_of_Kirkcaldy
St. Paul, Minnesota, USA
Ed Sullivan Show
Forum Posts: 168
Member Since:
25 August 2012
Offline
17

To my dying day I'll never get all the love for "She's Leaving Home."  It's always sounded like a more maudlin attempt at recapturing "Eleanor Rigby" to my ears.  a-hard-days-night-paul-3 As ever, it's a good song, but a great one?  Nah.

 

My list of 'home run' Beatles song written (or, at least, most predominantly written) by Paul:

Please Please Me: "I Saw Her Standing There"
With The Beatles: "All My Loving"
A Hard Day's Night
: "Can't Buy Me Love," "And I Love Her," "Things We Said Today"
Beatles for Sale
: "I'll Follow The Sun"
Help!
: "The Night Before," "I've Just Seen A Face," "Yesterday" (even though it's become rather overrated over the years)
Rubber Soul
: "Drive My Car," "You Won't See Me," "Michelle," I'm Looking Through You"
Revolver
: "Eleanor Rigby," "Here There And Everywhere," "Good Day Sunshine," "For No One," "Got To Get You Into My Life" (this was his highest batting percentage, so to speak)
Magical Mystery Tour
: "The Fool On The Hill"... and, if you count the full album, "Penny Lane"
White Album
: "Back in the U.S.S.R.," "Martha My Dear," "Blackbird," "I Will," "Birthday," "Mother Nature's Son," "Helter Skelter," "Honey Pie"
Abbey Road
: "Oh! Darling," the Medley (barring the 3 songs that were John's)
Let It Be
: "Two of Us," "Let It Be," "Get Back" (and I'm on the fence about "I've Got a Feeling")

Non-album tracks: "We Can Work It Out," "Paperback Writer," "Lady Madonna"

 

I realize most of this is fairly subjective, but it's how I feel.  ahdn_paul_02

16 August 2013
10.09am
meanmistermustard
Moderator



Forum Posts: 11201
Member Since:
1 May 2011
Offline

Duke_of_Kirkaldy said

meanmistermustard said 
I really don't get the thinking behind the whole SFF and PL should have been on Pepper to make it better. I suppose its the same as saying cut the White Album down to 14 tracks, and I don't believe doing that would have made that LP any better.

Plus MMT (the album we have now) would have been far weaker with whatever tunes you want knocked off Pepper as there would be no SF and PL to up its quality (Capitol would have still shoved it out).

Uh, yes, it would have, because SFF and PL are far superior songs to the vast majority of the songs that ARE on the album.  As I've likely mentioned in this forum before, Sgt. Pepper is the only Beatles album (not including Yellow Submarine) to which Paul did not contribute at least one song that I would qualify as a bona fide 'home run.'  The title track and its reprise are doubles at best; all his other contributions are mere singles, IMO.  Your White Album comparison doesn't work, because trimming it to a single album would've robbed it of a good deal of its personality.  And MMT isn't a true album, anyway; it's half an album that was then filled out with their non-album singles from that year.  a-hard-days-night-paul-11

 As soon as you alter the running order and add or remove tracks from any album you alter its personality, isn't that what Capitol did with a lot of the UK albums which most folk say aren't as good? Im very aware that MMT isnt a true album but it has been adopted into the core catalogue by Apple and is treated as one by many who don't know and/or care about the story behind its creation and love it. Also MMT is better for having Strawberry Fields and Penny Lane.

 

Don’t make your love suffer insecurities, trade the baggage of self to set another one free. ('Paper Skin' - Kendall Payne)
16 August 2013
4.48pm
Von Bontee
A Hole In The Road
Apple rooftop
Forum Posts: 2227
Member Since:
14 December 2009
Offline

meanmistermustard said

I really don't get the thinking behind the whole SFF and PL should have been on Pepper to make it better. I suppose its the same as saying cut the White Album down to 14 tracks, and I don't believe doing that would have made that LP any better.

Plus MMT (the album we have now) would have been far weaker with whatever tunes you want knocked off Pepper as there would be no SF and PL to up its quality (Capitol would have still shoved it out).

Yeah, who knows what Capitol would've done? Might have figured out that "Northern Song" or "All Together Now" were just lying there in the vault unused and appropriated them.

I don't think the 14-song "White Album" comparison is really 100% appropriate - "What two songs would you leave off to be replaced by 'Hey Jude'/'Revolution'?" would be more on point.

And I have no problem with people mentally altering album running-orders in their heads, because I think that aspect of an album's "personality" is pretty nebulous and largely supplied by the listeners themselves. There are certain decisions that seem like no-brainers, like having "Pepper's" and "Reprise" bookend that album, and reserving huge "grand finale" statements like "Tomorrow Never Knows" and the big medley as album closers, of course. But I think many of the other tracks are largely just jumbled together in a running order that only seems inevitable after repeated listenings. For me, I think if Rubber Soul had its tracks in a completely different order, I'd still love it as much today as I did 25+ years ago. Or maybe, possibly, I'd like it as much as 3% more; or alternately 3% less, there's many possibilities.

One day, a tape-op got a tape on backwards, he went to play it, and it was all "Neeeradno-undowarrroom" and it was "Wow! Sounds Indian!" -- Paul McCartney
16 August 2013
4.56pm
meanmistermustard
Moderator



Forum Posts: 11201
Member Since:
1 May 2011
Offline

Von Bontee said

meanmistermustard said

I really don't get the thinking behind the whole SFF and PL should have been on Pepper to make it better. I suppose its the same as saying cut the White Album down to 14 tracks, and I don't believe doing that would have made that LP any better.

Plus MMT (the album we have now) would have been far weaker with whatever tunes you want knocked off Pepper as there would be no SF and PL to up its quality (Capitol would have still shoved it out).

Yeah, who knows what Capitol would've done? Might have figured out that "Northern Song" or "All Together Now" were just lying there in the vault unused and appropriated them.

I don't think the 14-song "White Album" comparison is really 100% appropriate - "What two songs would you leave off to be replaced by 'Hey Jude'/'Revolution'?" would be more on point.

I was more thinking of the altering the album to somehow approve it but yeah I can see where you are coming from so possibly.

I do find it amusing that many hate what Capitol did with every UK album up to Pepper by adding, removing and altering them yet the first one they didn't many would like changed to include 2 other songs.

 

Don’t make your love suffer insecurities, trade the baggage of self to set another one free. ('Paper Skin' - Kendall Payne)
Forum Timezone: Europe/London

Most Users Ever Online: 597

Currently Online: vonbontee, Necko, Into the Sky with Diamonds, Ahhh Girl, trcanberra, Mr. Kite, georgiewood, Merch, GentlyWeptGuitar
54 Guest(s)

Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)

Top Posters:

meanmistermustard: 11201

mr. Sun king coming together: 6918

Ahhh Girl: 6234

parlance: 5919

Annadog40: 5478

Mr. Kite: 5119

Zig: 4875

mithveaen: 4633

Ron Nasty: 3410

fabfouremily: 2951

Member Stats:

Guest Posters: 88

Members: 2807

Moderators: 4

Admins: 2

Forum Stats:

Groups: 3

Forums: 34

Topics: 3280

Posts: 147376

Newest Members: stuartswift, helena.kelly28, curt_wells, lostdrawing, janet147

Moderators: Ahhh Girl: 6234, meanmistermustard: 11201, Zig: 4875, Joe: 3726

Administrators: Joe: 3726, Ellie: 1

Members Birthdays
Today: primadonna paul
Upcoming: None