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This settles the Ringo vs. Pete debate once and for all
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1 August 2013
6.09pm
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DrBeatle
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3 August 2013
2.53am
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DrBeatle
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Yep, he got royalties for every copy of Anthology 1 that sold since he played on all of the pre-fame stuff. Cleared over a million pounds from what I've read in multiple places. I don't feel sorry for him, he seems to have had a good life...he had a job, a wife he's been married to for 50 yrs, two grown daughters, and he's been gigging for a while. Good on him!

"I know you, you know me; one thing I can tell you is you got to be free!"

 

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3 August 2013
6.14am
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Ron Nasty
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I actually have some sympathy for Pete. He struggled throughout the '60s with depression, which included a suicide attempt. His best friend, Neil Aspinall, not only deserted him to stay with the group, but had an affair with his mother, that resulted in a half-brother, Vincent "Roag" Best. His mother patched up her relationship with The Beatles because of that connection, to the degree that it was her that provided the medals they wear on the cover of Sgt. Pepper.

And as for Anthology 1, with the exception of the Hamburg/Tony Sheridan tracks, none of the others he plays on could have been included without his permission - and he rightly received royalties for the 10 tracks he plays on, which at last estimate put his net worth at around £2 million. To my mind, he deserved his pay day.

"I only said we were bigger than Rod... and now there's all this!" Ron Nasty

3 August 2013
10.29am
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Tea and Sympathy
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3 August 2013
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These videos are too much.  In the same vein I'd like to see a Spectorized Rubber Soul.

Don't you know? It's gonna be alright. (Shoo-bee-doo-wop)
3 August 2013
10.38am
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fabfouremily
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I'm with mja. Glad you stepped in and said what I was preparing myself to say (only you can put it much better).

Pete played on all those tracks, so why shouldn't he get the royalties? Just because he was kicked out? Because of how he tries to big up his image (this, I have to admit, he does try and do a hell of a lot), because Ringo is a better drummer? If he played, he gets paid. We wouldn't expect anything less for any of the other members, would we?

Moving along in our God given ways, safety is sat by the fire/Sanctuary from these feverish smiles, left with a mark on the door.

(Passover - I. Curtis)

3 August 2013
1.42pm
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DrBeatle
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I hope you guys aren't implying that I said he *didn't* deserve the royalties? Because I agree with you, he absolutely deserved them.

"I know you, you know me; one thing I can tell you is you got to be free!"

 

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3 August 2013
4.30pm
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Ron Nasty
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DrBeatle said
I hope you guys aren't implying that I said he *didn't* deserve the royalties?
Because I agree with you, he absolutely deserved them.

My comment on the royalties situation was a response to vonbontee's implication that it was the surviving Beatles and their representatives who were generous enough to "voluntarily" decide to pay Pete royalties (though he may have been being sarcastic), pointing out it was a legal obligation and not an act of largesse on their part.

 

 

"I only said we were bigger than Rod... and now there's all this!" Ron Nasty

3 August 2013
6.10pm
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robert
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In regards to the Pete vs Ringo debate - in terms of musicianship and being right for the band etc, I put it this way: the creative talents that were composing, arranging and performing Love Me Do, I Want To Hold Your Hand etc., certainly had the musical acumen to know what worked for the band. 

Clearly, Lennon, McCartney and Harrison knew what they were doing.

History proves them correct.

 

"She looks more like him than I do."
3 August 2013
6.47pm
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DrBeatle
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mja6758 said

DrBeatle said
I hope you guys aren't implying that I said he *didn't* deserve the royalties?
Because I agree with you, he absolutely deserved them.

My comment on the royalties situation was a response to vonbontee's implication that it was the surviving Beatles and their representatives who were generous enough to "voluntarily" decide to pay Pete royalties (though he may have been being sarcastic), pointing out it was a legal obligation and not an act of largesse on their part.

 

 

Gotcha 8)

And robert, I always go back to what George said in Anthology..."Ringo was always the right person. It's just that he didn't walk into the film until that scene (summer '62)." End of debate, as far as I'm concerned.

 

 

"I know you, you know me; one thing I can tell you is you got to be free!"

 

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3 August 2013
10.23pm
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vonbontee
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mja6758 said

DrBeatle said
I hope you guys aren't implying that I said he *didn't* deserve the royalties?
Because I agree with you, he absolutely deserved them.

My comment on the royalties situation was a response to vonbontee's implication that it was the surviving Beatles and their representatives who were generous enough to "voluntarily" decide to pay Pete royalties (though he may have been being sarcastic), pointing out it was a legal obligation and not an act of largesse on their part.

 

 

Damn, mja, I have simply got to stop posting in the ultra-sardonic tone I've been employing lately - I seem to be inadvertently starting arguments and being misunderstood through nobody's fault by my own! (Although maybe if I had the ability to post actual apples and other smileys, my sincerity would be more apparent. :( ) Actually, I didn't know that there was a legal obligation there - I thought it was a legitimate goodwill act on everybody's part! Felt like a feel-good-all-around story to me. And now I find out it was just the result of everybody (ex-Beatles, Pete included, their widows, music-publishing execs, and of course LAWYERS) being just a bit greedy!...oh well, another illusion shattered.

I guess I was only thinking that he had no real right to claim royalties since he had no part in writing "My Bonnie" or "Cry For a Shadow" or whatever other Anthology tracks he played on, but I never accounted for record royalties as opposed to songwriting royalties. So presumably all members had a share in those Polydor-session recordings, huh? (And still Pete has to suffer the minor indignity of having his head edited out of the cover collage - now that's just ridiculously petty and blatant and silly! Just like Gandhi not making the SPLHCB cut - as if it's gonna offend somebody, for chrissakes. Couldn't they find some little blurry live photo in which his face was naturally indistinct? - it'd have been less obvious, more subtle. Really, this kind of thing just makes me do a facepalm - silly little ego-move along the lines of "McCartney-Lennon". Unless maybe they intended the blatant obviousness of it to be a kind of nasty-funny minor form of revenge? That's worth a chuckle or two, if so.)

...but yeah, of course Pete is important to the whole narrative & career! Most popular Beatle early on, so how many fewer frenzied fans would they have attracted to the Cavern without him? And subsequently how much less buzz surrounding the band, how much less likely Brian Epstein would have ever been hipped to their existence and that whole world, etc.

Yep, I rank Pete as definitely one of the Top Ten Beatles, up there with Brian and Mal and Geoff Emerick!

I remember George saying 'Blimey, he's always talking about “Yesterday”, you'd think he was Beethoven or somebody' - Paul McCartney

4 August 2013
6.58am
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Ron Nasty
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I haven't noticed any arguments you've started recently, vonbontee, and the worry here was DrBeatle's, that his comment had been misread.

As you say, you thought it was a voluntary arrangement reached between the parties. I would have commented on that misunderstanding whoever, and however, it had been made. As you also say, you forgot to take into account record royalties.

While Anthology 1 was complicated in that so many others appear on it, I doubt that it was something that involved too many lawyers arguing over percentages, just a lot of accountants working out the maths. A lot is made of Pete Best's payday as a result of it, and his was probably the biggest payday outside of John (Yoko), Paul, George and Ringo — because he featured on so many tracks.

However, it was also a payday for John "Duff" Lowe and Colin Hanton (the Quarrymen tracks), the estate of Stuart Sutcliffe (the home recordings), Tony Sheridan (My Bonnie), the estate of Brian Epstein (the spoken word segments), and the estates of Morecombe & Wise (sketch and Moonlight Bay).

The accountants would have looked at the album divided it into its 60 parts, and worked out the royalties from there. For instance, Colin Hanton would have received 20% of the two Quarrymen tracks, as would "Duff" Lowe, John (Yoko), Paul and George; the estate of Brian Epstein would have received 100% for his spoken interjections; Moonlight Bay and the sketch would have been divided six (possibly seven ways if the original broadcaster had a claim) ways.

Pete Best would have earned a quarter share on 9 of the 10 tracks he appeared on, 20% on the 10th, which was My Bonnieand had the other 20% going to Tony Sheridan (probably the biggest payday he ever got on the song).

Of course, they may have been able to negotiate lower rates with some of these people, and I don't know if they did or didn't, but Pete would always be different because his signature appears on the first Parlophone/EMI contract giving him an equal cut of any track they released featuring him.

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Von Bontee

"I only said we were bigger than Rod... and now there's all this!" Ron Nasty

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