This settles the Ringo vs. Pete debate once and for all | Page 2 | Ringo Starr | Fab forum

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This settles the Ringo vs. Pete debate once and for all
1 August 2013
4.42pm
mccartneyalarm
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Thanks, Dr. Beatle. I stand corrected on name of 1960s TV show Pete appeared on. It was I've Got A Secret, not To Tell the Truth (they're all just old TV shows to me.) I'd love to meet Pete Best...but I'm not sure what I'd talk to him about. The topic of the Beatles would be out!

"And in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make."

1 August 2013
5.21pm
meanmistermustard
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In a way isn't Pete fortunate to have such a part that he can get a tidy sum of cash from yearly. It wasn't if John, Paul and George had a drummer, heard Pete, were blown away, and got him in, they were about to head to Hamburg and needed someone quickly, it didn't really matter who. To his credit he was a good drummer but there is no doubt that Ringo was the best drummer around.

The Beatles needed a drummer when they didn't have one, later The Beatles wanted Ringo when they did have a one.

 

And yes i'd be seething as well if it had been me.

Don’t make your love suffer insecurities, trade the baggage of self to set another one free. ('Paper Skin' - Kendall Payne)
1 August 2013
6.09pm
DrBeatle
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meanmistermustard said
In a way isn't Pete fortunate to have such a part that he can get a tidy sum of cash from yearly. It wasn't if John, Paul and George had a drummer, heard Pete, were blown away, and got him in, they were about to head to Hamburg and needed someone quickly, it didn't really matter who. To his credit he was a good drummer but there is no doubt that Ringo was the best drummer around.

The Beatles needed a drummer when they didn't have one, later The Beatles wanted Ringo when they did have a one.

 

And yes i'd be seething as well if it had been me.

Good point, and he did earn over a million pounds when Anthology 1 was released.

A (twitter) friend of mine, who is a radio DJ in Stoke, interviewed Pete last week. Here's the video, I really enjoyed it (my twitter friend is the interviewer):

 

"I know you, you know me; one thing I can tell you is you got to be free!"

 

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1 August 2013
9.11pm
mccartneyalarm
Carnegie Hall
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I have to admit...he's aged  pretty well.

"And in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make."

1 August 2013
9.43pm
SatanHimself
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And to be fair, the guy deserves a lot more respect than history has given him.

Who can imagine what the Beatles may have been had Pete never been in the group in the early days?  Maybe he had a bigger influence that we think.  They spent a MASSIVE amount of time together in their most formative years.  Pete Best probably did more to shape the Beatles' history for the positive than we'll ever know.

E is for 'Ergent'.
1 August 2013
11.15pm
meanmistermustard
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I don't know SH, I think im too far gone at just being pissed off at him building up his part.

Out of interest did John, Paul and George ask others before Pete? I don't ask with an evil intent, im just genuinely interested to know if they put the feelers out to see who was available or head-hunted Mr Best immediately?

Don’t make your love suffer insecurities, trade the baggage of self to set another one free. ('Paper Skin' - Kendall Payne)
1 August 2013
11.37pm
DrBeatle
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meanmistermustard said
I don't know SH, I think im too far gone at just being pissed off at him building up his part.

Out of interest did John, Paul and George ask others before Pete? I don't ask with an evil intent, im just genuinely interested to know if they put the feelers out to see who was available or head-hunted Mr Best immediately?

From all I've read, they had almost Spinal Tap luck when it came to drummers...none of the spontaneously combusted on the drum stool, but they all either left or quit or got better jobs or didn't want to play with them. Pete was literally a matter of convenience...he had a kit, he wasn't in a band, his mum had a club they could play at, and they found him 2 days before going to Hamburg. I'm 100% positive had they known Ringo in 1960 at the same time they encountered Pete, they would've asked Ringo based on his ability AND personality.

 

"I know you, you know me; one thing I can tell you is you got to be free!"

 

Please Visit My Website, The Rock and Roll Chemist

Twitter: @blackbookblur

 

2 August 2013
11.00pm
Linde
The Netherlands
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That's what I've read too. They hadn't had many though.

 

And WHAT?! OVER A MILLION POUNDS?! SAY WHUUUUT

Oh and I've only watched about 2 minutes of that interview. He DID age pretty well but I can't just listen to an interview with him for 17 minutes. 

3 August 2013
2.53am
DrBeatle
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Yep, he got royalties for every copy of Anthology 1 that sold since he played on all of the pre-fame stuff. Cleared over a million pounds from what I've read in multiple places. I don't feel sorry for him, he seems to have had a good life...he had a job, a wife he's been married to for 50 yrs, two grown daughters, and he's been gigging for a while. Good on him!

"I know you, you know me; one thing I can tell you is you got to be free!"

 

Please Visit My Website, The Rock and Roll Chemist

Twitter: @blackbookblur

 

3 August 2013
5.24am
vonbontee
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Yep, for him. And Paul, Yoko, George/Olivia and Ringo get to look like the nice caring lads they are for voluntarily withholding, like, a possible 0.1% of a potential increase in their net worths. Everybody wins! :D [apple]

I just want to play. I’d like to think I could work opposite Sinatra, B.B. King, the Beatles, or a polka band... - Jazz musician Rahsaan Roland Kirk, 1967
3 August 2013
6.14am
Ron Nasty
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I actually have some sympathy for Pete. He struggled throughout the '60s with depression, which included a suicide attempt. His best friend, Neil Aspinall, not only deserted him to stay with the group, but had an affair with his mother, that resulted in a half-brother, Vincent "Roag" Best. His mother patched up her relationship with The Beatles because of that connection, to the degree that it was her that provided the medals they wear on the cover of Sgt. Pepper.

And as for Anthology 1, with the exception of the Hamburg/Tony Sheridan tracks, none of the others he plays on could have been included without his permission - and he rightly received royalties for the 10 tracks he plays on, which at last estimate put his net worth at around £2 million. To my mind, he deserved his pay day.

"I only said we were bigger than Rod... and now there's all this!" Ron Nasty
3 August 2013
10.29am
Tea and Sympathy
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These videos are too much.  In the same vein I'd like to see a Spectorized Rubber Soul.

Don't you know? It's gonna be alright. (Shoo-bee-doo-wop)
3 August 2013
10.38am
fabfouremily
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I'm with mja. Glad you stepped in and said what I was preparing myself to say (only you can put it much better).

Pete played on all those tracks, so why shouldn't he get the royalties? Just because he was kicked out? Because of how he tries to big up his image (this, I have to admit, he does try and do a hell of a lot), because Ringo is a better drummer? If he played, he gets paid. We wouldn't expect anything less for any of the other members, would we?

''We're just knocked out. We heard about the sell out. You gotta get an album out, you owe it to the people. We're so happy we can hardly count.''

3 August 2013
1.42pm
DrBeatle
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I hope you guys aren't implying that I said he *didn't* deserve the royalties? Because I agree with you, he absolutely deserved them.

"I know you, you know me; one thing I can tell you is you got to be free!"

 

Please Visit My Website, The Rock and Roll Chemist

Twitter: @blackbookblur

 

3 August 2013
4.30pm
Ron Nasty
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DrBeatle said
I hope you guys aren't implying that I said he *didn't* deserve the royalties? Because I agree with you, he absolutely deserved them.

My comment on the royalties situation was a response to vonbontee's implication that it was the surviving Beatles and their representatives who were generous enough to "voluntarily" decide to pay Pete royalties (though he may have been being sarcastic), pointing out it was a legal obligation and not an act of largesse on their part.

 

 

"I only said we were bigger than Rod... and now there's all this!" Ron Nasty
3 August 2013
6.10pm
robert
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In regards to the Pete vs Ringo debate - in terms of musicianship and being right for the band etc, I put it this way: the creative talents that were composing, arranging and performing Love Me Do, I Want To Hold Your Hand etc., certainly had the musical acumen to know what worked for the band. 

Clearly, Lennon, McCartney and Harrison knew what they were doing.

History proves them correct.

 

"She looks more like him than I do."
3 August 2013
6.47pm
DrBeatle
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mja6758 said

DrBeatle said
I hope you guys aren't implying that I said he *didn't* deserve the royalties? Because I agree with you, he absolutely deserved them.

My comment on the royalties situation was a response to vonbontee's implication that it was the surviving Beatles and their representatives who were generous enough to "voluntarily" decide to pay Pete royalties (though he may have been being sarcastic), pointing out it was a legal obligation and not an act of largesse on their part.

 

 

Gotcha 8)

And robert, I always go back to what George said in Anthology..."Ringo was always the right person. It's just that he didn't walk into the film until that scene (summer '62)." End of debate, as far as I'm concerned.

 

 

"I know you, you know me; one thing I can tell you is you got to be free!"

 

Please Visit My Website, The Rock and Roll Chemist

Twitter: @blackbookblur

 

3 August 2013
10.23pm
vonbontee
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mja6758 said

DrBeatle said
I hope you guys aren't implying that I said he *didn't* deserve the royalties? Because I agree with you, he absolutely deserved them.

My comment on the royalties situation was a response to vonbontee's implication that it was the surviving Beatles and their representatives who were generous enough to "voluntarily" decide to pay Pete royalties (though he may have been being sarcastic), pointing out it was a legal obligation and not an act of largesse on their part.

 

 

Damn, mja, I have simply got to stop posting in the ultra-sardonic tone I've been employing lately - I seem to be inadvertently starting arguments and being misunderstood through nobody's fault by my own! (Although maybe if I had the ability to post actual apples and other smileys, my sincerity would be more apparent. :( ) Actually, I didn't know that there was a legal obligation there - I thought it was a legitimate goodwill act on everybody's part! Felt like a feel-good-all-around story to me. And now I find out it was just the result of everybody (ex-Beatles, Pete included, their widows, music-publishing execs, and of course LAWYERS) being just a bit greedy!...oh well, another illusion shattered.

I guess I was only thinking that he had no real right to claim royalties since he had no part in writing "My Bonnie" or "Cry For a Shadow" or whatever other Anthology tracks he played on, but I never accounted for record royalties as opposed to songwriting royalties. So presumably all members had a share in those Polydor-session recordings, huh? (And still Pete has to suffer the minor indignity of having his head edited out of the cover collage - now that's just ridiculously petty and blatant and silly! Just like Gandhi not making the SPLHCB cut - as if it's gonna offend somebody, for chrissakes. Couldn't they find some little blurry live photo in which his face was naturally indistinct? - it'd have been less obvious, more subtle. Really, this kind of thing just makes me do a facepalm - silly little ego-move along the lines of "McCartney-Lennon". Unless maybe they intended the blatant obviousness of it to be a kind of nasty-funny minor form of revenge? That's worth a chuckle or two, if so.)

...but yeah, of course Pete is important to the whole narrative & career! Most popular Beatle early on, so how many fewer frenzied fans would they have attracted to the Cavern without him? And subsequently how much less buzz surrounding the band, how much less likely Brian Epstein would have ever been hipped to their existence and that whole world, etc.

Yep, I rank Pete as definitely one of the Top Ten Beatles, up there with Brian and Mal and Geoff Emerick!

I just want to play. I’d like to think I could work opposite Sinatra, B.B. King, the Beatles, or a polka band... - Jazz musician Rahsaan Roland Kirk, 1967
4 August 2013
6.58am
Ron Nasty
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I haven't noticed any arguments you've started recently, vonbontee, and the worry here was DrBeatle's, that his comment had been misread.

As you say, you thought it was a voluntary arrangement reached between the parties. I would have commented on that misunderstanding whoever, and however, it had been made. As you also say, you forgot to take into account record royalties.

While Anthology 1 was complicated in that so many others appear on it, I doubt that it was something that involved too many lawyers arguing over percentages, just a lot of accountants working out the maths. A lot is made of Pete Best's payday as a result of it, and his was probably the biggest payday outside of John (Yoko), Paul, George and Ringo — because he featured on so many tracks.

However, it was also a payday for John "Duff" Lowe and Colin Hanton (the Quarrymen tracks), the estate of Stuart Sutcliffe (the home recordings), Tony Sheridan (My Bonnie), the estate of Brian Epstein (the spoken word segments), and the estates of Morecombe & Wise (sketch and Moonlight Bay).

The accountants would have looked at the album divided it into its 60 parts, and worked out the royalties from there. For instance, Colin Hanton would have received 20% of the two Quarrymen tracks, as would "Duff" Lowe, John (Yoko), Paul and George; the estate of Brian Epstein would have received 100% for his spoken interjections; Moonlight Bay and the sketch would have been divided six (possibly seven ways if the original broadcaster had a claim) ways.

Pete Best would have earned a quarter share on 9 of the 10 tracks he appeared on, 20% on the 10th, which was My Bonnieand had the other 20% going to Tony Sheridan (probably the biggest payday he ever got on the song).

Of course, they may have been able to negotiate lower rates with some of these people, and I don't know if they did or didn't, but Pete would always be different because his signature appears on the first Parlophone/EMI contract giving him an equal cut of any track they released featuring him.

"I only said we were bigger than Rod... and now there's all this!" Ron Nasty
5 August 2013
7.37am
vonbontee
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Excellent breakdown, thanks! Didn't realize Pete had played on so many tracks on the Anthology I, never owned it, just downloaded the really good stuff, listened to the rest once (or twice) and forgot.

(You didn't participate in the thread that held my most recent argument! It was the one about McCartney's comments regarding his current habit of playing "Mr. Kite" in concert, and the resulting comments in a wogblog posting. I agreed with the sentiment of the posting and said so, others didn't and also said so, etc. And, more absurdly, I made some too-vehement anti-ketchup remarks (!?) in another thread that I think may have taken Funny Paper aback. Totally accidental, I just really hate the stuff!)

I just want to play. I’d like to think I could work opposite Sinatra, B.B. King, the Beatles, or a polka band... - Jazz musician Rahsaan Roland Kirk, 1967
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