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11.41pm
5 November 2011
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Paulsbass, I'm not nine, I'm in ninth grade, fourteen years old.
11.45pm
12 March 2010
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unknown said:
Paulsbass, I'm not nine, I'm in ninth grade, fourteen years old.
Ah, misunderstood "in my ninth year". My bad and apologies!
12.06am
16 February 2011
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I misunderstood you wrong, too! I'm so sorry 
I guess you're not the youngest one here, after all
12.15am
19 September 2010
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To me, the thing that makes a great song is an uniqueness about the song. For some songs, it's the bassline from Paul (Come Together, Paperback Writer, Rain), the melodic piano (A Day In The Life, While My Guitar Gently Weeps, Hey Jude), great drums (Rain, Day In the Life, Helter Skelter), or an added touch (the Indian instruments on Pepper tracks, like the Tamburas on Lucy). Or just great guitar (Taxman, Something, Revolution). If there was a tried and true formula, that would mean the Beatles could be copied. Now, tell me again if that's happened?
12.55am
1 May 2011
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Thank you for your intriguing reply Anderson. 4 points that answered nothing.
1.18am
23 January 2011
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Wow…this has to be the silliest post I've ever read. To dismiss Paul and George's songwriting outright is to dismiss the entire band. Half of the songs are Paul's, and he helped write some of John's best (A Day in the Life, the added bit at the end of Cry Baby Cry) and helped musically with some of the best (Come Together…how can you believe the swampy piano and bass line on that song are crap? The only thing that would make that song even better is Paul's voice singing harmony with John's). George's songs are also great! Here Comes the Sun is simply too beautiful for words. Never has such a happy song made me feel such sadness, which says something about it's beauty. While My Guitar Gently Weeps is pure poetry. How can you just dismiss it so easily? How can you dismiss the cleverness and wit of Taxman, or the pure joy of It's All too Much, or the spiritually glorious beauty of Long, Long, Long.
Also, Paul's songs are popular for a reason. People like them. Their musicality is often brilliant, and he can write lyrics just as inspiring as John and George, even if you don't understand their meaning sometimes. Just because you don't get it doesn't mean no one else does. He inspires millions of people around the world with his music, and you deem to dismiss it entirely???? That's insane and seriously stupid. He's different than John, but not better or worse. He's brilliant in his own right.
And Wings doesn't suck. Have you ever actually listened to Wings or just read reviews from people like Jann Wenner and Robert Cristgau? I hate to sound like a constant Paul-defending harpy, but seriously, go listen to Little Lamb Dragonfly and Some People Never Know. Go listen to the entire Band on the Run and Venus and Mars albums. Listen to Beware My Love, and tell me it isn't as good (better, even) than anything any 70s rock band did! He wouldn't have lasted as long as he has without writing good songs.
You can't love a BAND and dismiss 66% of their songs. You can like some better than others, sure, but you can't outright say they suck and still enjoy them, surely.
1.36am
5 November 2011
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GniknuS,
I gave serious consideration to "Cry Baby Cry". I can't quite put my finger on what it is I don't like about this one. The bass is very good, so: check. Lennon vamp: check. I would say that it has both solid McCartney bass and solid Lennon vamp, but just not enough of both to propel it into my "first-rank".
paulsbass,
You request that I "prove you wrong" on your bare assertions. But I feel no need to do so. None of your positions are supported with any sort of reasons or arguments. I don't mind bare assertions if they are in the context of an overall argumentative framework where I can understand their context and work out the reasons you would give for your position on my own. But in the case of your post, the only thing even resembling a reason for any of your assertions is your application of the predicate "blistering" to Ringo's drums and "heaviest" to the guitar in Helter Skelter. There is just nothing of substance to which I could respond. A large portion of your post just seems to be insults and threats.
I will, however, comment on your incredulity regarding my "dismissal" of the bass line in "Come Together". The "bass slide" trick is the laziest move in the game. It's what you do when you can't come up with something actually creative. All of the notes he hits are utterly obvious. Where is moody bi-polar Paul? This song is perfectly set up for a classic "restless Paul" bass line, but he never deviates from the safe and mundane. If I had to use one word to sum up his bass line in "Come Together," it really would have to be "lazy". It's obvious he didn't put much thought or effort into it.
1.41am
5 November 2011
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kedame
But of course, I didn't "dismiss" all of the songs from Paul and George, nor did I say that they all "suck". I merely said that none of them are in the "first-rank". My position is not that Paul and George didn't write "good songs"; in fact, I quite clearly state that some of Paul's are very close to being in the "first-rank". This thread is about what makes for a truly great Beatles song.
2.12am
23 January 2011
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I'd say Penny Lane, Hey Jude, Yesterday, Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band, Let it Be, Get Back, Got to Get You Into My Life, Can't Buy Me Love, Eleanor Rigby, Here, There, and Everywhere, For No One, Blackbird, Paperback Writer, Helter Skelter, I Will, I Want to Hold Your Hand, She Loves You (both of which are JP collaborations), I'm Down, All My Loving, And I Love Her, Lady Madonna, Something, Here Comes the Sun, While My Guitar Gently Weeps, the whole Abbey Road side two, and all of the songs John and Paul collaborated on are first-rate Beatles songs. Believe what you want, I guess, but it seems stupid to me to declare every song Paul and George wrote were not first rate songs. Many of the songs Paul wrote are the songs people identify the Beatles with. Hardly anyone's first thought when they think of the Beatles is of I am the Walrus or Cry Baby Cry (maybe Come Together or In My Life). More often than not, it's one of the songs I mentioned above. Say what you want about "substance" being more important than popularity, but popularity is important. It means people from all walks of life feel connected to that song. Isn't that what makes good music? Can't you just imagine the powerful feeling of 50,000 people singing Hey Jude together? It's amazing, and Paul did that. That's first rate.
I've said it before, but I'll say it again. I think John had a unique ability to make songs that touch people on a broad level…a sort of universal oneness. But Paul has the ability to touch people on a personal level, and that is just as important, especially if it reaches so many millions of people. You can't deny the power his songs have over people. It's just silly to try.
2.17am
19 September 2010
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Kedame – I love your point about Hey Jude. There is nothing like having Paul McCartney lead 20000 people in the coda. I sometimes day the coda would work shorter on the record, but live, well – nothing tops that.
2.21am
1 May 2010
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Ok I don't want to join the discussion. If someone can't see the brilliance of Paul and George's work by itself, I don't think anybody can do it for them. I'm not saying this is bad, I'm just saying there are some Lennonistas and some MacCartneistas very fierce. My boss is a Lennonista, so I know what you mean Anderson.
And by Lennonista I'm not saying anything wrong. That's all. Just keep it civil guys.
And I have to say it : Paulsbass and SunKing agreeing in something? (I mean, something, not Something). 
2.23am
23 January 2011
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Thanks, SunKing. It's on all the concert cds, and it's just so powerful to hear. I was listening to it on my laptop one time, and my sister commented on how amazing it sounded with everyone singing together. It's almost enough to bring a person to tears. I love that fucking coda. It can get a little long on the official recording, but it sounds so perfect live. I feel the same about Mull of Kintyre live, when the bagpipes come in, and you can hear everyone cheering and singing along. Just beautiful.
2.24am
1 May 2010
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And if I make a mistake in grammar or spelling in my post, sorry. I'm worn out.
2.27am
19 September 2010
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Paulsbass isn't a stupid guy. He knows his stuff well. I might not always agree with him, but it's never because of something really stupid he says (because he doesn't say stupid things). You know what (and I would like to think he agrees with me), I would agree with him if he's right about something in a heartbeat. And typically when he calls me out, it's my fault. I don't think there's any bad blood, right?
2.30am
5 November 2011
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kedame
Of course, I'm not trying to "deny the power [Paul's] songs have over people". I'm denying that this is a sensible barometer for measuring a work of art.
Consider the following thought experiment: imagine that the Beatles had played all of those years in Aunt Mimi's garage. They wrote all of the same songs, and made all of the same recordings, but no one ever heard them except for the Beatles themselves. Would it follow that none of the Beatles songs were "first-rate"? After all, they would have touched the lives of no one. No one would have sang along with Hey Jude. No one would have felt "connected" to them. Does this mean that they have no artistic value?
You declare that what makes for good music is to make "people from all walks of life feel connected to that song". Again, it would follow from this that if the Beatles had played their whole career in a garage, that their music would not have been good. Are you prepared to stand by this conclusion? If not, then you will need to change your argument a bit.
What makes for "good music"? I offer you a more plausible standard: "good music" comes about when a talented, creative, and interesting artist achieves an excellent work of self-expression. Now, doesn't that seem more sensible?
2.31am
23 January 2011
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mithveaen said:
And if I make a mistake in grammar or spelling in my post, sorry. I'm worn out.
Don't worry about it, mith. Your spelling and grammar are just fine. I respect what you said about keeping it civil. There really is no point to this discussion, is there? It's clear Anderson will never change his mind about George and Paul. I'm just glad I can enjoy the entire catalog and not just say it's only a first-rate song if my personal favorite wrote it. I love John's bass on Helter Skelter. I love his writing and singing in songs like Come Together, I Am the Walrus, If I Fell, In My Life, etc. I love George's writing. I love his singing. I love his guitar and his sitar and everything in between. I love Ringo's drumming and his fun, unique voice. I love everything about Paul…even his so-called "granny" music. I love the whole fucking band, and it just gets my goat when a Beatles fan can dismiss the others so much as to say they haven't written any first-rate songs. It's just bullshit.
2.38am
23 January 2011
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Anderson said:
kedame
What makes for "good music"? I offer you a more plausible standard: "good music" comes about when a talented, creative, and interesting artist achieves an excellent work of self-expression. Now, doesn't that seem more sensible?
And Paul and George aren't and didn't do those things? I get it. They aren't serious or brooding enough for you…not tortured enough. Whatever. I'll never change your mind. People's reactions to art matter. They weren't just a garage band. There is no objective reason for your assertion that George and Paul's songs aren't great…only subjective, biased ones. This is going nowhere.
And I'm with paulsbass on this one…anyone who denies the beauty of that bassline in Come Together should not be taken seriously. It is rightly regarded as one of the best Beatles bass lines, in a whole catalog full of brilliant bass lines. It's one of the least lazy sounding bass lines I've ever heard, and just because you say it's lazy doesn't mean it's true.
2.42am
1 May 2011
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Anderson said
…To defend my view, it's necessary for me to hold that McCartney and Harrison didn't write great songs. McCartney and Harrison were good at writing hits, but this is not the same thing as writing great songs. …
As ni-on everyone including myself has said you cannot possibly conclude that Paul and George did not write great songs. Outside the beatles Bob Dylan wrote with George, something he wouldnt do if George couldnt and hadnt wrote some fantastic songs. Forget the Beatles when George was inspired and had to write good enough material to get a song onto an album, listen to albums like Cloud Nine or Brainwashed or Living In The Material World and tell me there are not great songs in there. And Paul would not be able to last 4 decades if he couldnt write great music (listen to albums like Flowers In The Dirt, Flaming Pie; songs like Here Today, Waterfalls, Letting Go, No More Lonely Nights). Eventually he would have been found out.
But that probably doesnt matter because it wasnt within the beatle years.
John very openly stated that Here, there and everywhere was one of his favourite beatles songs ever. And he would be one of the first to defend Paul and George's writing skills.
3.06am
1 May 2010
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Ok, it doesn't need to be everyone versus Anderson, I don't think that was his intention. For example, Come Together certainly is a cool bass line, but outside of the riff it really isn't spectacular. It just isn't, he plays a single note during the guitar solo, one note over and over, that's it. Yes, that is lazy playing, it works, but technically it is lazy, but that doesn't take away from the cool riff. With a Little Help from My Friends is an example of an amazingly complex line with all of these different and unique sections, innovative little riffs, but no one really talks about it because it's not quite as cool as something like Come Together.
Let's try to keep some things in perspective, I don't believe he's trashing Paul or George by sharing his opinion.
3.16am
23 January 2011
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If everyone disagrees with Anderson, then it should be everyone versus Anderson. No one has to be the voice of reason if they don't want to. I happen to think his opinion sucks, so I'm going to share that. Apparently, so does the majority of this board. He opened himself up to criticism by making a spectacularly broad claim that he should admittedly know would be controversial. If people don't agree with it, it is our prerogative to say so.
Implying that Paul and George aren't great or real artists, as he did in his last post, is as good as bashing, unless I am wrong that that was what he was implying. If I was, I'm sorry. But I won't apologize for arguing against him. That's what a thread like this is for.
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