Odd time signatures | Page 2 | Recording and musicology | Fab forum

A A A

Please consider registering
guest

Log In Register

Register | Lost password?
Advanced Search

— Forum Scope —

  

— Match —

   

— Forum Options —

   

Wildcard usage:
*  matches any number of characters    %  matches exactly one character

Minimum search word length is 4 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters

Topic RSS
Odd time signatures
5 June 2010
8.35pm
Joe
Pepperland
Admin
Forum Posts: 3220
Member Since:
31 March 2008
Offline

Are you serious? Bars with 17 demisemiquavers, and 49 hemidemisemiquavers? Where?

I know they were musical geniuses, but that would surely take them into the realm of titans and superhumans a-hard-days-night-ringo-9

Please don't spoil my day; I'm miles away

Can buy me love! Please consider using these links to support the Beatles Bible: Amazon | iTunes

5 June 2010
10.03pm
Brother_Mustard
Newfoundland, Canada
A Beginning
Forum Posts: 7
Member Since:
30 May 2010
Offline
22

Joe said:

 

Brother_Mustard (hi, welcome, glad you decided to post rather than lurk!) – Amazon.co.uk lists the author as Tim Cain. No Olafs or Svens mentioned!


 

Haha, thanks Joe a-hard-days-night-george-8

Aww, that's a little dissapointing. When I pictured Olaf and Sven, they had funny accents. Tim Cain isn't nearly as fun…a-hard-days-night-ringo-12

5 June 2010
11.56pm
Marcelo
Shea Stadium
Forum Posts: 491
Member Since:
27 February 2010
Offline
23

Joe said:

Are you serious? Bars with 17 demisemiquavers, and 49 hemidemisemiquavers? Where?

I know they were musical geniuses, but that would surely take them into the realm of titans and superhumans a-hard-days-night-ringo-9


 

There's a point where you have just call it "ad lib.", for mankind's sake…

I'd like to say "thank you" on behalf of the group and ourselves and I hope we passed the audition. John Lennon
6 June 2010
3.33pm
BlueBoule
Here, There And Everywhere
Casbah Coffee Club
Forum Posts: 19
Member Since:
15 May 2010
Offline
24

mjb said:

PeterWeatherby said:

Incidentally, do any of you other musician-types own that gigantic book of Beatles' music called The Complete Scores?  


I bought it when it first came out – cost an absolute fortune a-hard-days-night-ringo-14 I think it was about £45…………around 16 years ago???? Anyway, it is good if you want to tinker along……..but I haven't got round to guitar picking to Revolution 9…..YET :-)


 

I got it last christmas, and the transcription is by… wait! Tetsuya Fujita, Yuji Hagino, Hajime Kubo and Goro Sato. lol

And hey! There are also time signature changes in Revolution 9! From 3/4 to 4/4 and back… but honestly, does anyone even hear a beat? I don't…a-hard-days-night-ringo-6

Isn't it musique concrète? Or what exactly is the difference?

 

 

Listen to the colour of your dreams…
6 June 2010
6.19pm
MrBig
Rapture, Atlantic Ocean
Apple rooftop
Forum Posts: 1115
Member Since:
4 April 2010
Offline
25

Joe said:

Are you serious? Bars with 17 demisemiquavers, and 49 hemidemisemiquavers? Where?

I know they were musical geniuses, but that would surely take them into the realm of titans and superhumans a-hard-days-night-ringo-9


About 6 and a half minutes in.
"The best band? The Beatles. The most overrated band? The Beatles."
5 September 2010
2.18am
Dear Prudence
Coming down fast but miles above you.
Apple rooftop
Forum Posts: 1191
Member Since:
7 August 2010
Offline
26

I cant read music.

Dear Prudence Giving you quality -Facepalms- , since August 7, 2010.
4 October 2010
9.53pm
Decca
Forum Posts: 92
Member Since:
29 September 2010
Offline
27

PeterWeatherby said:

I finally looked it up because it was driving me crazy: the bridge from "Here Comes The Sun" alternates between 3/8, 5/8, and 4/4.  It's messy.  But it sounds GREAT!

Incidentally, do any of you other musician-types own that gigantic book of Beatles' music called The Complete Scores?  It has musical notation for all of the instrumentation, guitars, bass, drums, horns, strings, whatever.  It's a decent book, even if it does have a few misprints (in both the lyrics and the music); it's hilarious to me to read the "score" for Revolution 9.  Oh to have been a fly on the wall for that transcribing session … ("Seriously, Olaf, do we have to include this?  I mean, it's not even really a song, is it?"  "Hush, Sven, I'm trying to decide if this ambulance siren should be notated in the key of E-flat, or in F-sharp with accidentals.")


*laughs!*  I thought the same thing: who drew the short straw to transcribe that beast!  You know, one of those "Who's out of the room?  Let's give it to them…."blue-meanie
4 October 2010
9.57pm
Decca
Forum Posts: 92
Member Since:
29 September 2010
Offline
28

Also--on the Anthology, you can hear John gamely try to play an early version of I'll Be Back in 3/4 time…..*laughs!*

a-hard-days-night-john-1
4 October 2010
10.00pm
Decca
Forum Posts: 92
Member Since:
29 September 2010
Offline
29

Dear Prudence said:

I cant read music.


From most accounts I read, the Beatles couldn't read music very well--if at all--either, so you're in good company. *smiles!*  Plus, The Beatles Scores have the guitar parts in tablature (no notes, but instead indications of what string/fret to press down on) so you can at least noodle around with them on guitar….
4 October 2010
10.04pm
Dear Prudence
Coming down fast but miles above you.
Apple rooftop
Forum Posts: 1191
Member Since:
7 August 2010
Offline
30

EyesofBlue said:

Dear Prudence said:

I cant read music.


From most accounts I read, the Beatles couldn't read music very well--if at all--either, so you're in good company. *smiles!*  Plus, The Beatles Scores have the guitar parts in tablature (no notes, but instead indications of what string/fret to press down on) so you can at least noodle around with them on guitar….

I think like the way they write music.
Dear Prudence Giving you quality -Facepalms- , since August 7, 2010.
17 March 2011
11.42pm
deboraht
Casbah Coffee Club
Forum Posts: 22
Member Since:
4 February 2011
Offline
31

McLerristarr said:

All You Need Is Love has time signatures of 7/4, 4/4 and 6/4.  Apparently it was the first (and one of only two) songs with a 7/4 time signature to reach the top 20 in the USA.

I thought it was 7/8 I have never heard of 7/4

23 March 2011
12.19pm
Joe
Pepperland
Admin
Forum Posts: 3220
Member Since:
31 March 2008
Offline
32

In simple terms, the 4 refers to crotchets, the 8 to quavers. So, 7/4 would be seven crotchets in a bar, 7/8 would be seven quavers in a bar. In the case of AYNIL, 7/4 is correct.

Please don't spoil my day; I'm miles away

Can buy me love! Please consider using these links to support the Beatles Bible: Amazon | iTunes

24 July 2011
7.40pm
McLennonSon
In the middle of the roundabout
Rishikesh
Forum Posts: 850
Member Since:
10 May 2011
Offline
33

Joe said:

I was flying back to the UK from Berlin last night and began singing Two Of Us to myself ("We're on our way home, we're going home"), and started thinking about the unusual time signature changes in the song. Most of it's in 4/4, but with the odd bar of 2/4 and 3/4 dropped in. For example:

  • when they sing "someone's", "arriving", "letters", "latches" etc, it's a bar of 2/4.
  • The "We're on our way home" section is mostly in 3/4, but has a 2/4 bar for "we're going home".

I've had the same problem… I thought it was 4/4 all along…

My Music Blog. One and one don't make two One and one make one.
28 October 2011
2.10am
Into the Sky with Diamonds
New York
Apple rooftop
Forum Posts: 1177
Member Since:
10 August 2011
Offline
34

In the "Living in the Material World" documentary, Ringo talks about the  "7 beats" or something to that effect in "Here Comes The Sun."

I wish I had a fuller understanding of these things (thanks Joe for the explanations) to fully appreciate.

Do you think the Beatles were conscious of the time changes?

"Into the Sky with Diamonds" (the Beatles and the Race to the Moon – a history)
28 October 2011
2.28am
CranberrySauce
Sitting on a Corn Flake
Shea Stadium
Forum Posts: 408
Member Since:
4 November 2010
Offline
35

Well, 'Norwegian Wood' taught me what waltz time was (3/4). That's a pretty famous example, though. 

I'm like Dear Prudence, I can't read music!

Because the wind is high, it blows my mind.
29 October 2011
8.58pm
Joe
Pepperland
Admin
Forum Posts: 3220
Member Since:
31 March 2008
Offline
36

I think George was certainly conscious of the changes, as he'd studied Indian music with Ravi Shankar. That's why Here Comes The Sun is so interesting in its rhythms. I'd imagine McCartney was also aware of the rules and how to break them, but Lennon less so.

Please don't spoil my day; I'm miles away

Can buy me love! Please consider using these links to support the Beatles Bible: Amazon | iTunes

9 May 2012
7.07pm
Ben Ramon
Candlestick Park
Forum Posts: 622
Member Since:
26 March 2012
Offline
37

I remember reading somewhere that George made so much of the "sun, sun, sun here it comes" bit in the middle of Here Comes The Sun because he was aware of the complexity of the timing and how good it sounded, might have been a speculation by Alan Pollack in his musicology notes on the Beatles' songs.

paulsbass said
 But I see how some people find that interesting, so if anyone feels up to it or/and owns the score, bring up the HIAWG time changes!

Happiness Is A Warm Gun starts in a simple 4/4, then cuts itself off half a bar early to drop into the EVIL RIFF and "I need a fix" bit which is in 3/4. Then the "mother superior jumped the gun" would appear to be in 3/4, but every other instance of the repeated line the last bar comprises 4 beats. If you count along to it, it goes 1-2-3-1-2-3-1-2-3 on the first, third and fifth times but then alternates to 1-2-3-1-2-3-1-2-3-4 on the second, fourth and sixth times. Then the doo-wop bit is in 4/4 but shifts to 3/4 on the "when I hold you" to marvelous musical effect in my opinion. Ringo, however, seems to stay in 4/4 which adds a very strange staggered feel to the rhythm. It moves back to 4/4 again for the last bit of the song but ends somehow on the first beat of the bar? Always been confused by this bit to be honest… but that's what I hear.

SHUT UP - Paulie's talkin'
9 May 2012
7.47pm
Joe
Pepperland
Admin
Forum Posts: 3220
Member Since:
31 March 2008
Offline
38

I mentioned Happiness and Good Morning in the very first post.

Someone posted this in the comments section of the HIAWG song page. I've not checked it but presume it's about right.

 She's not a girl who misses much… (0:00-0:14):
o 4 bars of 4/4.
* She's well acquainted with the velvet touch… (0:14-0:45):
o 1 bar of 4/4
o 1 bar of 2/4
o 5 bars of 4/4
o 1 bar of 5/4
o 1 bar of 4/4.
* I need a fix cos I'm goin' down… (0:45-1:13):
o twice through a 3 bars/4 bars/4 bars series of 3/8 (i.e. 22 bars of 3/8).
* Mother superior, jump the gun… (1:13-1:35):
o thrice through a bar each of 9/8 and 10/8.
* Happiness Is A Warm Gun… (1:35-2:43):
o 4 bars of 4/4
o 3 bars of 12/8 (with the drums doing 4 bars of 4/4 and 1 bar of 2/4!)
o 5 bars of 4/4 (the final bar entering free time)
o 1 bar of 2/4 (in free time)
o 5 bars of 4/4

Please don't spoil my day; I'm miles away

Can buy me love! Please consider using these links to support the Beatles Bible: Amazon | iTunes

6 June 2012
1.21pm
Artie Fisk
A Beginning
Forum Posts: 8
Member Since:
6 June 2012
Offline
39

Well, there are odd time signatures and ODD time signatures.  Really, counting 7/4 isn't hard, because you don't count sevens.  You count a four and a three.  In All You Need Is Love, during the verses, you just count alternating fours and threes, with the fours first.  The weird thing about time signatures is when they change, at least for me.  AYNIL changes in the last part of the verse, and then again at the end of the chorus.  Those are the tricky bits, more than the 7/4 part. As in She Said, She Said, it's the transition that's hard, especially in a band situation.  Used to try to play that one with my old band, and it wasn't ever easy. 

 

In Good Morning, Good Morning, it's another story. The time changes from measure to measure in the verse, so that you can't really EVER count it, or at least I can't. I'm metrically deficient. Always have been.  I was a Music Theory and Comp major in college, before I switched to English, and was pretty good at analyzing harmony, but HOPELESS at meter and rhythm. I used to have to enlist my drummer to help me.   With GMGM, I just have to feel it, and hope I'm feeling it right.  I can't possibly ever count while I'm singing, and counting while I play only works in practice.  I used to work with a guy who'd been a percussionist with orchestras, and was a "time signature geek," as he used to put it. He, of course, said that GMGM was "Easy.  Interesting, actually.  But easy.  Be great for a marching band." After I got done shooting dirty looks at him, he explained it to me, and counted it, no sweat, the first time he heard it.  I still can't hear it properly, to be honest.  Wish I could.  Are there any percussionists or time signature geeks in here who can count it?

"There's nowhere you can be that isn't where you're meant to be. It's easy: All You Need Is Love"
7 June 2012
2.08am
Into the Sky with Diamonds
New York
Apple rooftop
Forum Posts: 1177
Member Since:
10 August 2011
Offline
40

Good questions, but as an amateur guitarist, I could never figure out how people figure out whether a song is in this or that meter (and why it matters).

"Into the Sky with Diamonds" (the Beatles and the Race to the Moon – a history)
Forum Timezone: UTC 0

Most Users Ever Online: 597

Currently Online: Mr. Kite, cra, buick6
70 Guest(s)

Currently Browsing this Page:
2 Guest(s)

Members Birthdays
Today None
Upcoming Joe, Bungalow Bob

Top Posters:

meanmistermustard: 7237

mr. Sun king coming together: 6972

mithveaen: 4678

parlance: 3712

MeanMrsMustard: 2803

Ron Nasty: 2548

skye: 2295

IveJustSeenAFaceo: 2056

LongHairedLady: 1891

Von Bontee: 1855

Member Stats:

Guest Posters: 87

Members: 2337

Moderators: 5

Admins: 1

Forum Stats:

Groups: 3

Forums: 33

Topics: 3069

Posts: 110812

Newest Members: BeatleZak, Mast Paster, Stephen Merrick, happyfeetgroove, captaindiggity

Moderators: Ahhh Girl (3415), fabfouremily (2941), Zig (3315), Joe (3220), Ellie (1)

Administrators: Joe (3220)