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Ranking Paul's Studio Albums
22 March 2014
10.51pm
IveJustSeenAFaceo
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I was defending Billy, who I thought had a valid (and respectfully made) point, from a person who was calling him "stupid" and a "hater".

I don't consider it a derailment, by the way, because the conversation was about Paul's work.

Sorry to anyone I offended.

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22 March 2014
10.55pm
IveJustSeenAFaceo
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You can just call me Faceo, everyone else does. 

And we never want to see a member leave, why don't you stick around and contribute to some other discussions.

EDIT: Oh, dear.

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22 March 2014
11.02pm
Annadog40
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paulsbass said

meanmistermustard said
A note to all and everyone to remain courteous to everyone else no matter if you think they are talking so much horse shit you could start cultivating a rose garden to rival the Government Rose Garden. One of the few rules is be to be respectful of and towards others and their opinions – disagree but please don't name call.

Thank you, mmm, that one made me laugh very hard and come back once more for an apology.

Sorry I got carried away from what you quite accurately described here.

Of course I don't know this guy personally and can only ASSUME what drives him, so I should have left that one sentence out.

I still don't think what he did was ok, either, but's that's another story.

Sorry, IveJustSeenAFaceO, with a name like that, you might want to live with other people misspelling it.

Take care everyone.

apple01

 

Welcome back Paulbass apple01

 

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22 March 2014
11.14pm
Musketeer Gripweed (kezron9)
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I feel that he carved out a great body of solo work after being in the best group ever. There is nothing wrong with taking a critics opinions into account regarding your work. John did also very much so after Some Time In New York City and Mind Games. Also is there anybody in the music industry who has a musical career spanning 50 years, with this amount of success or relevance? One of the things that make Pauls career so unique is the output. I have a great time re-listening to his albums and liking songs that I over looked in the past or didn't enjoy. I find my music taste is like taste buds and change over time. He is the only artist that has so much work that it makes people take his work for granted. Also on the topic of putting out less work would have helped his career. If you control the markets demand it is easy to deliver because they are hungry. Like Double Fantasy people were so hungry for John that it was easy to re-enter the market for him. Paul might of saturated the market because he put out so many albums, but I feel that it did no affect the artistic qaulity in any manner. Generations are going to be amazed for decades at his output and body of work. I feel that he was ahead of his time  with his albums in the 70s. To try and claim that some of his albums shouldn't be considered albums is ridiculous in my opinion.  

Billy Rhythm said
"Ranking Paul's Studio Albums" is pretty cut & dry for me.  In my opinion, and yes I've heard them all, only 2 of them are even worth ranking as albums because almost all of them are comprised of mainly second-rate material ("throwaways" or "filler", whichever is your preferred coin phrase) with few bright spots scattered throughout his collections.  Had he been anybody else he would've been hard pressed to even find a recording contract after the first two to even have had the opportunity to make another crappy album like 'Wild Life' or 'Red Rose Speedway', let alone have any of them go to number one."

 

Just saying the thread was asking to rank your favorite Paul albums which everyone was doing until this comment. If the thread was saying what are your opinions on Pauls solo work I would see this as an on topic point. But when the thread is assuming you like his work and are willing to take the time to rank your FAVORITES and you throw this out there it is going to annoy some of his fans. It is even possible to hate all his work and to still rank them even if you don't like them. 

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Atlas
23 March 2014
12.35am
Billy Rhythm
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kezron9 said

Just saying the thread was asking to rank your favorite Paul albums which everyone was doing until this comment. If the thread was saying what are your opinions on Pauls solo work I would see this as an on topic point. But when the thread is assuming you like his work and are willing to take the time to rank your FAVORITES and you throw this out there it is going to annoy some of his fans. It is even possible to hate all his work and to still rank them even if you don't like them. 

 

Yeah, I didn't "rank" them all because it likely would've caused more chaos than creation, hence why I went for a more "cut & dry" approach.  This first post of mine that's being singled out should also be noted as containing the phrase "in my opinion" TWICE in it.  vonbontee commented immediately on the "strong words" to which I then reiterated that "It's just one person's opinion, for what it's worth".  I don't recall a prerequisite to posting in this thread being only "FAVOURITES", the OP asks "how" you'd rank Paul's solo albums.  I mark nearly all of them as "unranked" for the reasons that I've all ready stated, that means that there are only 2 that I consider to be worthy of serious consideration for any Top 200 albums of all-time list, the rest of them are "unranked".  If you'd really prefer a detailed analysis that I didn't provide in "BR's first post", here it is but I warn you that you may not agree or like what you are about to read, I'll say it again "It's just one person's opinion, for what it's worth":

 

1)  'NEW' – Paul's years of touring and revisiting many gems from his Beatles' days on stage had clearly had a positive effect on his writing and recording for this album, his strongest work since 'Band On The Run'.  I rate it higher than 'Band On The Run' because it contains less "filler" and is the closest thing to a concise Paul McCartney solo album that we'll likely ever get.  It may be a tad over-produced by McCartney standards, but not over the top like most music nowadays is.  4 out of 5 Stars.

2)  'Band On The Run' – Definitely contains atleast two songs ('Nineteen Hundred and Eighty-Five' & 'Let Me Roll It&#39a-hard-days-night-george-10 that stand up to just about anything that The Beatles had recorded.  I do feel that this album is a little overrated because about half of it is no better than the uneventful 'Red Rose Speedway' album that proceeded it, that album probably makes this album look better than it really is but most certainly this album, in addition to the great 'Junior's Farm'/'Sally G' single gave people reason to believe that 'Live And Let Die' was no flash in the pan and that Paul wasn't Dead.  4 out of 5 Stars.

3)  I'm gonna have to go a little "cut & dry" here on for the "unranked" albums because it's a steep drop off for me after these two albums:

     'McCartney' - Two excellent songs in 'Every Night' & 'Maybe I'm Amazed', but sadly that's about it.  2 and a half out of 5 Stars.

     'RAM' - As Ringo said at the time, "not one worthwhile tune, only a couple of interesting lines".  2 out of 5 Stars.

     'Wildlife' – I really wanna say that 'Tomorrow's a good song, but it's not in my opinion.  1 and a half out of 5 Stars.

     'Red Rose Speedway' – I know that 'My Love' was popular, but not in my household.  1 and a half out of 5 Stars.

     'Venus & Mars' - The best of the "unranked" albums listed here, 'Listen To What The Man Said' is one of his best.  3 out of 5 Stars.

     'At The Speed Of Sound' – Awful, Denny Laine's 'Time To Hide' is good but that's about it.  1 and a half Stars.

  I'm gonna quit here at 'London Town' because it just gets worse, I know some of you really dig 'Back To The Egg', 'Tug of War', 'Flaming Pie' and the likes but Paul had become a shadow of his former self when it came to making great music through here onto 'NEW', in my opinion, and I'm just gonna offend more people if I go on about songs like 'My Brave Face', my first post was truly about as polite as I could be without compromising my honest opinion…:-) 

 

 

 

 

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IveJustSeenAFaceo
23 March 2014
1.05am
Musketeer Gripweed (kezron9)
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 Basically, I was saying original post just looked like a bashing instead of contributing to thread topic. Hey at least there considered albums now! I could of phrased that favorite/ranking better. But, generally in order to rank things you have to favor something over another. Most posts were covering there top or favorite albums of his because ranking all 23 is tough. But yeah this actually shows thought instead of generally saying his solo stuff sucks, which people thought were strong words for thread. I am sure people would not of commented strong words if this had been original post. Also somebody mentioned Monkberry Moon Delight earlier. I can totally imagine John and Paul doing that track together. I do wish he would of done more weird tracks like that. 

23 March 2014
1.37am
Atlas
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Look Billy

It's important to state how you feel. Music is heard and 'viewed' through a set of very personal ears. Songs I like, you may detest and vice-a-versa. The world will keep turning. We we all fail miserably if we try to tell each other what is great and what is trite……through you can often get a common consensus about a song or an album.

However, it would be naive to expect that your strongly negative write-off of much of Paul's work, (which I think your initial post and this last one contain), would not draw some people to make an equally robust, 'opinionated' defence.

You say you've been as polite as you can possibly be about your views of the albums you don't even consider should be ranked and that it's better to stop now than go on as you'll cause even more offence.

Your view is as valid as anyone's. But I just can't understand why it is that you appeared to have loved the Beatles so much unless you were mostly skipping Paul's tracks.

And how you consider say, 'Tug of War' as an album so bad you'd be best not to comment on it when it contains (IMO) one of McCartney's most wonderful concoctions of words, music and emotion in the whole of his Beatle and solo career. 'Here Today'

 

'I guess you'd say we were poles apart'

 

 

 

 

 

 

23 March 2014
2.14am
Billy Rhythm
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Atlas said 

And how you consider say, 'Tug of War' as an album so bad you'd be best not to comment on it when it contains (IMO) one of McCartney's most wonderful concoctions of words, music and emotion in the whole of his Beatle and solo career. 'Here Today'

 

 

 
Sure, 'Here Today' is a nice tribute, but that doesn't automatically qualify it as a superior piece of songwriting like 'Yesterday', George did a "nice tribute" on the 'Somewhere in England' album too ('All Those Years Ago&#39a-hard-days-night-george-10 but does that mean 'Somewhere In England' is one of his best albums?  Many actually consider it to be his worst.  The two 'Tug of War' "hits" don't help its cause either, 'Take It Away' never did anything for me and 'Ebony & Ivory' is about as good an example of "elevator music" as I can think of that isn't an instrumental, and I enjoy a lot of Stevie Wonder's material.  'Here Today' is another case of Paul repeating himself, he often introduces the song nowadays as a "letter to John that I never got the chance to send", but what about 'Dear Friend' from 'Venus and Mars'?  Does "Dear Friend" not sound like the first words of a letter?  And we all know that it was directed towards John while he was still alive.  'Here Today', however the nice gesture that it is, shouldn't in my opinion "rank" 'Tug of War' any higher than a lot of his other forgettable albums if we're judging it on its musical merits without bias, he gets a few extra points in the lyrical department for that one, but that's about it.  'All Those Years Ago' is a much better tribute in my opinion, but it doesn't change how I feel about 'Somewhere In England' at all, it's another second-rate George Harrison Solo album…:-)

23 March 2014
3.47am
Musketeer Gripweed (kezron9)
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The only problem I have with all Those Years Ago is the way it was released as a single. It was suppose to be a single for Ringo with different lyrics then George redid because Ringo didn't have correct vocals for it. Its a little too poppy for a tribute song for me. Here Today was a much deeper song. Weird he also released When We Was Fab years later, almost like George was trying to capitalize on being a Beatle again.  

23 March 2014
6.26am
Atlas
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Billy Rhythm said

Atlas said 
And how you consider say, 'Tug of War' as an album so bad you'd be best not to comment on it when it contains (IMO) one of McCartney's most wonderful concoctions of words, music and emotion in the whole of his Beatle and solo career. 'Here Today'

 

 

 
Sure, 'Here Today' is a nice tribute, but that doesn't automatically qualify it as a superior piece of songwriting like 'Yesterday', George did a "nice tribute" on the 'Somewhere in England' album too ('All Those Years Ago&#39a-hard-days-night-george-10 but does that mean 'Somewhere In England' is one of his best albums?  Many actually consider it to be his worst.  The two 'Tug of War' "hits" don't help its cause either, 'Take It Away' never did anything for me and 'Ebony & Ivory' is about as good an example of "elevator music" as I can think of that isn't an instrumental, and I enjoy a lot of Stevie Wonder's material.  'Here Today' is another case of Paul repeating himself, he often introduces the song nowadays as a "letter to John that I never got the chance to send", but what about 'Dear Friend' from 'Venus and Mars'?  Does "Dear Friend" not sound like the first words of a letter?  And we all know that it was directed towards John while he was still alive.  'Here Today', however the nice gesture that it is, shouldn't in my opinion "rank" 'Tug of War' any higher than a lot of his other forgettable albums if we're judging it on its musical merits without bias, he gets a few extra points in the lyrical department for that one, but that's about it.  'All Those Years Ago' is a much better tribute in my opinion, but it doesn't change how I feel about 'Somewhere In England' at all, it's another second-rate George Harrison Solo album…:-)

I liked the Tug of War album very much at the time……..Although I always skipped Ballroom Dancing. If I recall correctly it was nominated for various 'Grammys' won a few 'Brits' and Ebony and Ivory was a hit all over winning The Ivor Novello Award that year. I doubt you were on the voting panel, (just as well)……George Martin was back in the saddle. Steve Gadd, Ringo, Carl Perkins, Stevie Wonder….It's a good album. It's nominations argue that case and so it's not just, 'in my opinion'.

As for 'Here Today' It's a song that only Paul can sing…..Unlike 'Yesterday' which is much an elevator song as Ebony/Ivory…..That's IF 'Ebony and Ivory' IS an elevator song.

No singer/songwriter however good can be consistently excellent over such a long period. What's Stevie done in the last 30 years?

Paul has been having a go, working, creating. Adding classic after classic to his body of work.  'The World You're coming into' as good as anything of his on 'Help'

Paul's been composing while most of his contemporaries have been decomposing.

………Even elevator music like Ebony and Ivory will be remembered long after Messieurs B Rhythm and Atlas have gone.

 

 

 

 

 

 

23 March 2014
7.24am
Billy Rhythm
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'Ebony & Ivory', as with 'Here Today' scores points on its lyrical content, the racial analogy to piano keys "living in perfect harmony" is a message that needs to be widespread.  But the song itself is something that just has a very annoying sound to it, a "synth-pop" ear-worm that isn't exactly what I'd envisioned upon first learning that these two premier artists had decided to hook up for a duet.  I prefer the two Micheal Jackson duets ('The Girl Is Mine' & 'Say, Say, Say&#39a-hard-days-night-george-10 to be honest, and that's not saying much, but I'll stop short on saying that his collaborations with Elvis Costello are better, that I'd have to think about some more.  I'm glad that you like this album so much, but it's no better to me than 'London Town' which also showcases some more annoying synth-pop sounds by a man who used to be known for employing cream of the crop session musicians to play horns, strings, etc. on his recordings instead of emulating them on keyboards that sound very much like they were purchased at K-Mart for under $100.  You all ready touched on 'Ballroom Dancing' so I won't get started on that one, to do that would incite some 'Give My Regards To Broad Street' discussion which is perhaps the greatest example of Paul "repeating himself".  'Eleanor's Dream'?!  Well, atleast he used some real strings on that one, but the damage had all ready been done by then, like you say "Ebony and Ivory will be remembered long after Messieurs B Rhythm and Atlas have gone"…:-) 

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23 March 2014
8.02am
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Can't say that I agree with very much of what you've tabled, but a well thought out review/ranking nonetheless, thanks for sharing…:-)

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IveJustSeenAFaceo
23 March 2014
8.57am
WhereArtEsteban
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I want to submit The Fireman's first release Strawberries Oceans Ships Forest into the mix on this one! 

totally rad

 

From what I can tell Rushes is incredible as well, but I haven't heard it all. 

"P. P. P. P. S- L. P. Winner."

24 March 2014
2.45am
Into the Sky with Diamonds
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Will have to check out Strawberries and Rushes. Excited to find out there's stuff of his I haven't heard.

Paulsbass, thanks for listing "Don't Let It Bring You Down" from London Town. I always liked its meditative tone, just like I like "Summer's Day Song" on McCartney 2. Also happy to see someone else like "Good Times Coming" from Press.

But the "Lovers That Never Wear" from Off the Ground with Elvis Costello lyrics is IMO one of his best.

"Into the Sky with Diamonds" (the Beatles and the Race to the Moon – a history)
24 March 2014
3.04am
IveJustSeenAFaceo
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I picked up 6 more Paul albums (including a live album) today, bringing my total (including 2 live albums) to 11 of his solo/Wings works. I don't think that's enough to rank, so I'll find some more before doing this in detail. Just off the top of my head of the ones I have (not including live albums)

1. Chaos And Creation In The Backyard

2. Venus And Mars

3. Band On The Run

4. NEW

5. Flaming Pie

6. Memory Almost Full

7. Ram

8. Run Devil Run

9. Kisses On The Bottom.

That's just a rough listing of the 9 studio albums I have, feel free to disagree.

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24 March 2014
1.12pm
Joe
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@paulsbass Hi. Nice to see you again. You're always welcome to drop by and post your thoughts about The Beatles, Paul McCartney and anything else. However, if you're still reading, I need to ask you to please be respectful of other posters. You can discuss the music all you want, but personal attacks have no place here:

Well, Einstein, maybe YOU should ask yourself why YOU did feel the need to "add" to a thread ranking Paul's albums, saying it's more or less all crap.

maybe your point was more of a failure than you're willing to admit to?

you're just a bitter, petty hater.

And you not only don't know YOUR stuff, you don't know PAUL'S stuff.

Those aren't constructive comments – they're just a variety of personal attacks. You can disagree with an idea or statement without launching an ad hominem attack on its creator. Play the ball not the man. Also:

I used to come here to have NICE conversations with what I thought were the bestest fans on earth – but the forum made me feel WORSE about being a Beatle-fan and some songs…

You could start by having NICE conversations rather than launching personal attacks on other forum members. You seem to have an unerring ability to get embroiled in the most unnecessary personal disagreements.

stay-on-topic

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24 March 2014
4.44pm
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Not commenting on anything other than that video paulsbass posted is brilliant. Love that a lot.

"Well, probably we'll sell less records, less people'll go to see the film, we'll write less songs, and we'll all die of failure" (John Lennon 8/64)
24 March 2014
4.45pm
Joe
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I got lectured already by no less than three moderators, which can be just a rough estimate, and already apologized.

Sorry, I missed your apology before. But AFAIK the only moderator who has so far commented (not lectured) on this is Zig. Other forum members also commented because they seemed to object to what you said (or the way you said it). But I can't speak for them, only me.

So, where's Billy's lecture about how it's better to write in a respectful way about the artist the thread is dedicated to, instead of launching personal attacks on him?

When will he get lectured for storming into a Paul-fan thread?

I'm not going to lecture Billy Rhythm on anything – I thought he was remarkably constrained given the circumstances. And this isn't a Paul-fan thread. It's a discussion.

McCartney can take the criticism. He's a public figure and his works (and the motives and circumstances surrounding their creation) are freely available for people to comment on. We don't have to be respectful about everything any of the Beatles ever did – that would be ridiculous and rather boring. Other forum members can mount a defence and provide an opposing view should they wish, but at no point does personal animosity need to arise.

Let me reiterate just so you're under no misapprehension: People can discuss, criticise, damn and praise Paul McCartney's work all they want. They can put forward opinions and ideas without being pilloried for doing so, but must be prepared for others to disagree. If you want to defend Paul McCartney then go ahead, but if you want to attack someone personally for holding a contrary point of view please refrain.

Anyway, I want to draw a line under this and get it back on topic. Please don't make me lock yet another thread after it descends into self-justification – we've been here too many times before. Talk about the Beatles, please, FFS.

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24 March 2014
8.32pm
IveJustSeenAFaceo
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I agree with mmm, that video rules. I'm showing that to anyone who annoys me from now on.

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24 March 2014
8.58pm
IveJustSeenAFaceo
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Deleted that. Sorry to anyone who actually saw it. 

All I'm gonna say is: really?

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