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Questions you'd ask Paul if you could interview him
14 December 2013
11.18pm
Ron Nasty
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trcanberra said

When Im 64 said
What ever made them think of the butcher cover. Not attacking them for it, but it just gets to me. 

Since it is meant to get to us, looks like it served its purpose.  From my hazy recollection it was meant to be a comment on the Vietnam War?

In the mind of the photographer, it was a comment on The Beatles fame. It was given many other retrospective meanings after it was used, depending on where it was used. An example being the "butcher cover", which was not actually it first use (that was actually a UK press ad for Paperback Writer/Rain -see below), which often portrayed the picture as The Beatles comment on what Capitol were doing to their albums.

Joe's account of the photo session in the History section is well worth a read.

http://www.beatlesbible.com/19.....o-session/

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14 December 2013
11.30pm
meanmistermustard
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Wouldn't have thought Brian would have allowed any message or comment on the Vietnam War be allowed out, he was always very concerned about the Beatles image and how everything they did and said came across to the fans, media and everyone else. He did lose a bit of control and authority over that in the 1966 US press conferences and interviews when John started saying a few things however and of course he was very worried about the Pepper cover.

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14 December 2013
11.42pm
Ron Nasty
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Actually, though Brian requested they say nothing on Vietnam, John refused, saying that if they were asked as the question, they would answer - though they were a little reserved in their responses when in America.

Here is an example from a press conference in New York on 22 August 1966 -

Q: "Would any of you care to comment on any aspect of the war in Vietnam?"

JOHN: "We don't like it."

Q: "Could you elaborate any?"

JOHN: "No. I've elaborated enough, you know. We just don't like it. We don't like war."

GEORGE: "It's, you know... It's just war is wrong, and it's obvious it's wrong. And that's all that needs to be said about it."

(applause)

PAUL: "We can elaborate in England."

"I only said we were bigger than Rod... and now there's all this!" Ron Nasty
15 December 2013
12.09am
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mja6758 said
Actually, though Brian requested they say nothing on Vietnam, John refused, saying that if they were asked as the question, they would answer - though they were a little reserved in their responses when in America.

Here is an example from a press conference in New York on 22 August 1966 -

Q: "Would any of you care to comment on any aspect of the war in Vietnam?"

JOHN: "We don't like it."

Q: "Could you elaborate any?"

JOHN: "No. I've elaborated enough, you know. We just don't like it. We don't like war."

GEORGE: "It's, you know... It's just war is wrong, and it's obvious it's wrong. And that's all that needs to be said about it."

(applause)

PAUL: "We can elaborate in England."

 

Ok, did a google search and i was wrong about it being John especially and 1966. Here's an article from Wogblog on The Beatles and what they said about Vietnam and it actually goes back to 1964. You live and learn.

Don’t make your love suffer insecurities, trade the baggage of self to set another one free. ('Paper Skin' - Kendall Payne)
15 December 2013
12.55am
trcanberra
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meanmistermustard said

mja6758 said
Actually, though Brian requested they say nothing on Vietnam, John refused, saying that if they were asked as the question, they would answer - though they were a little reserved in their responses when in America.

Here is an example from a press conference in New York on 22 August 1966 -

Q: "Would any of you care to comment on any aspect of the war in Vietnam?"

JOHN: "We don't like it."

Q: "Could you elaborate any?"

JOHN: "No. I've elaborated enough, you know. We just don't like it. We don't like war."

GEORGE: "It's, you know... It's just war is wrong, and it's obvious it's wrong. And that's all that needs to be said about it."

(applause)

PAUL: "We can elaborate in England."

 

Ok, did a google search and i was wrong about it being John especially and 1966. Here's an article from Wogblog on The Beatles and what they said about Vietnam and it actually goes back to 1964. You live and learn.

And I still recall seeing John or Paul say they had the war in mind on the cover when they were OK'ing it, even if the photographer had other ideas, could be wrong tho'.

 

15 December 2013
1.32am
Ron Nasty
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According to Alan W. Livingstone, it was Paul who pushed for its use as the cover, and said he described it as "our comment on the war". During the controversy over the cover, John was reported as having said the cover was "as relevant as Vietnam".

The point I was making, backed up by Whitaker in Joe's account of the session, is that other meanings and intentions were attached to it after it was taken. Whitaker was creating a conceptual set of photographs about the nature of fame, and The Beatles fame in particular, that he called A Somnambulant Adventure. There was no thought of Vietnam as the photos were taken, but John and Paul did later use this particular to make comments about the war.

Actually though, when you look into the full set of photographs (and I will see if I can find others from that day), Whitaker went into it with a fully thought out concept for the session, which The Beatles happily played along with. It was, alongside 1968's Mad Day Out, one of their more interesting photographic sessions.

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15 December 2013
1.36am
meanmistermustard
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Isn't John getting nailed by George from that session? I'm probably wrong.

george harrison hammer, john lennon, hammer and nails

Got that pic from here, has a load of really cool pics of George for those who are interested.

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15 December 2013
1.43am
Ron Nasty
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Nope, you're not wrong, mmm. Same session, and part of Whitaker's concept. As I said, Whitaker entered the studio that day with a clear idea of what he wanted, and what he wanted the images to say.

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15 December 2013
10.02am
meanmistermustard
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I got something right!? Surely that qualifies me to write an indepth Beatles blockbuster with tons of new information from "new" sources. Every other hack has.

 

What does hammering a nail into someone's skull say aside from "owww!" and don't let George loose with a hammer and some nails? He has an evil sadistic gleam in that picture, kind of like a madman. Never got this whole conceptual art stuff, how a blue angle with red twirls signifies the giving of life and the shortness of love on a summers day between two unknown entities walking down a Meadows lane.  

We should ask Paul (how was that in getting the thread back on tracka-hard-days-night-john-5)?

A nice colour one.

Don’t make your love suffer insecurities, trade the baggage of self to set another one free. ('Paper Skin' - Kendall Payne)
15 December 2013
2.54pm
Ahhh Girl
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That's right, mmm, we could ask him. He is a visual artist, too. He helped with the artwork for Electric Arguments. And, of course we can't overlook his part on that painting the four of them did that was about their view/vision of the concept of "woman."

22 December 2013
7.38pm
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We all remember LHL's dream from a few weeks ago a-hard-days-night-paul-7, but I was wondering if you can really enjoy women's breasts after your mom and Linda both had breast cancer?

22 December 2013
7.58pm
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Ahhh Girl said
We all remember LHL's dream from a few weeks ago a-hard-days-night-paul-7, but I was wondering if you can really enjoy women's breasts after your mom and Linda both had breast cancer?

a-hard-days-night-paul-7 

Something i hope he never ever answers, really do not need to know that detail of his life.a-hard-days-night-ringo-13 

Paul, if you decide to answer please do it thru a PM.

Don’t make your love suffer insecurities, trade the baggage of self to set another one free. ('Paper Skin' - Kendall Payne)
22 December 2013
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acmac
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Ahhh Girl said
We all remember LHL's dream from a few weeks ago a-hard-days-night-paul-7, but I was wondering if you can really enjoy women's breasts after your mom and Linda both had breast cancer?

Nancy too. He's revealed that's how they met; Nancy was in treatment at the same time as Linda in NY, and a few years ago she ran into Paul in some shop and told him she had known Linda and liked her a lot.

22 December 2013
11.46pm
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acmac said

Ahhh Girl said
We all remember LHL's dream from a few weeks ago a-hard-days-night-paul-7, but I was wondering if you can really enjoy women's breasts after your mom and Linda both had breast cancer?

Nancy too. He's revealed that's how they met; Nancy was in treatment at the same time as Linda in NY, and a few years ago she ran into Paul in some shop and told him she had known Linda and liked her a lot.

Thanks, acmac. I knew Nancy had some type of cancer. I didn't know it was breast cancer. Thanks for filling in that blank for me. Guess I've been too lazy to look it up.

Oh, what the heck. I'll come clean. It isn't out of laziness. Nancy is just so freaking beautiful, AND she snagged Paul. Plain 'ole pure jealousy hindered my will to search for the answer.

 

23 December 2013
7.23am
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meanmistermustard said 
I dont believe Nancy is playing second fiddle to Linda, its more that Paul still loves Linda and doesn't forget her yet moves on with Nancy - its not about replacing Linda or forgetting about her but accepting that part of Paul's life but moving on. One problem Heather created was that she seemed to want Paul to forget everything about Linda and be about her only, something which pissed off the kids, caused a split and made them not take to her right from the off. 

I agree MMM. I think that is a big difference between Nancy and Heather, aside from the general personality and sanity differences. I remember when Paul played Coachella a few years ago and he got choked up during "My Love" and told the audience it was because it was the anniversary of Linda's death. He was with Nancy at that point and could never have said that if he was still with Mills. She supposedly hated him even playing "My Love" and never wanted him to mention Linda during concerts. I think Nancy is very good for Paul because she allows him to grieve and still hold Linda close. He even said that once in an interview:

"She is a very powerful memory, because I was married to her for nearly 30 years. In my relationship with my new girlfriend [now fiancée], Linda is a powerful presence, and I am lucky Nancy [Shevell] recognises that and is a big admirer of her work.”
A huge figure to follow, I say, and another ghost rears up, that of McCartney’s dead marriage to Heather Mills, a name he never mentions and one that, I suspect, would lead to my swift ejection if I did. “It is a dreadfully big thing to follow, so you don’t try. I mean, that’s the trick. You are yourself, you are your own person and if you are nice, then that’s great – but you are not replacing in any way the person that is gone. Once you realise that, it becomes workable – and, in fact, rather nice.”

I think Nancy's acceptance and openness to Linda is down to two things. 1) Nancy herself was married for almost 30 years. Even though her first marriage ended voluntarily through divorce and not through death, it's still always going to be a huge part of her life and Paul in turn has to accept the role her ex-husband will always play in her life. 2) That Nancy knew Linda. Paul said they met when Nancy introduced herself in a store in Long Island because she'd been a fellow breast cancer patient at the same hospital as Linda, and they'd gotten to know each other a little bit. That is a powerful bond. 

ETA: Weird, two of us posted about Paul and Nancy meeting at the same time!

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25 December 2013
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wetsroosa said

meanmistermustard said
Personally i think Paul was very vulnerable after losing Linda and Heather was around at the right time, unfortunately she proved to be a bitch (I was going to be kind but decided its not worth it). There probably was something between them at the beginning but as time went on her true colours began to show. Love is indeed blind and it's at times easier to see someone's true character when you're not that close to them, just as its easier to see past their faults when closer to them. 
Plus Paul's kids not liking Heather could be said to be protecting Linda's memory and entirely related to their mum and the fear of her being replaced.

 

I wasn't going to say anything at first either but this is a woman who is a compulsive liar, cheated on her first husband with their ski instructor, starting bashing Paul BEHIND HIS BACK to her friends about him almost the second after they were married, didn't attempt to get along with Paul's children that I'm aware of, threatened to leak audio footage of Paul in therapy talking about Linda... shall I continue? While I don't think Heather Mills is an evil person, I do think she has bad intentions at times and unlike the rest of us, takes the next step and acts them out.

I have a theory that Heather Mills was an abuser. It's based on a few things:

  • Reports from Paul's friends that when he got with her, they couldn't reach him except at work or in the studio because she intercepted any communication to his home. 
  • Reports that she intercepted communication from his adult kids, like supposedly telling Heather her mental illness was too wearing on Paul and not to contact him and recording Stella's phone calls. Supported in a later interview with James, who didn't go into specifics but said he did have little contact with his dad and was estranged during his marriage to Mills. 
  • Reports that Mills cleaned house of several of Paul's longtime employees. Isolating him from friends, family and longtime employees is worrisome, because abusers often work on isolating a person from their support system. 
  • When they first separated, there was gossip that some of their household staff was ready to come forward with accounts of Mills being physically abusive to Paul. That gossip was hushed up right quick, I suspect by Paul.
  • Mills publicly acting out violently when she doesn't get her way. Examples: throwing water on Paul's lawyer in court, or attacking the Paralympic official who disqualified her. If she can't control herself in situations where her image depends on it, how bad is she in private? 
  • Accounts from people who knew them during their marriage who said Mills would often berate and belittle Paul in front of other people, and he would just take it. 

"And if you want to see me cry/Play Let it Be or Nevermind." -The National, "Don't Swallow the Cap"

25 December 2013
11.00am
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It certainly seems like she abused him in a verbal sense; we have plenty of evidence to suggest that, but to claim she physically abused him is quite a claim. I don't like her, though, not one little bit, and I'm not convinced there's anything she wouldn't do.

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27 December 2013
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acmac
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Holloway said

I have a theory that Heather Mills was an abuser. It's based on a few things:

  • Reports from Paul's friends that when he got with her, they couldn't reach him except at work or in the studio because she intercepted any communication to his home. 
  • Reports that she intercepted communication from his adult kids, like supposedly telling Heather her mental illness was too wearing on Paul and not to contact him and recording Stella's phone calls. Supported in a later interview with James, who didn't go into specifics but said he did have little contact with his dad and was estranged during his marriage to Mills. 
  • Reports that Mills cleaned house of several of Paul's longtime employees. Isolating him from friends, family and longtime employees is worrisome, because abusers often work on isolating a person from their support system. 
  • When they first separated, there was gossip that some of their household staff was ready to come forward with accounts of Mills being physically abusive to Paul. That gossip was hushed up right quick, I suspect by Paul.
  • Mills publicly acting out violently when she doesn't get her way. Examples: throwing water on Paul's lawyer in court, or attacking the Paralympic official who disqualified her. If she can't control herself in situations where her image depends on it, how bad is she in private?
  • Accounts from people who knew them during their marriage who said Mills would often berate and belittle Paul in front of other people, and he would just take it. 

Hmm. Sensitive issues here. That she is a very toxic person seems clear, if for no other reason that apparently nobody except her sister can endure a relationship with her (romantic or platonic) for any length of time (which makes me frightened for little Bea, frankly).

Before jumping into the fray, I want to insert a caveat about domestic violence, which society continually fails to take seriously enough. Accusations by victims are dismissed with awful regularity, and often purely on the basis of "but s/he's such a nice person, it can't be true!" That was the predominant knee-jerk reaction after Mills' accusations hit the fan; it rankled me then and it rankles me now. That attitude ignores the reality of abuse, which is that abusers are often very, very good at fooling outsiders.

That said, based on the actual evidence we have, do I think it at all likely that Mills' accusations were the unvarnished truth? Not really, major reasons being A) she has lied before, specifically about being a victim of abuse (such as in her "kidnapped by a pedophile" story, which ***actually happened to her friend, not to her***), and B) Paul has such good relationships with his kids, which would be highly, highly unlikely if he had abused their mother. However, is it possible, if unlikely, that a man as rich and powerful as Paul McCartney could get away with being secretly abusive? Maybe.

All that said, I agree that Mills' observed behavior fits the abuser profile more than Paul's does, and further seems very strange for an abuse victim (though there's no real "profile" for victims; there are some behavioral patterns, but there is no "right" or "wrong" way to respond to abuse). Just one example: it was she who deliberately violated his boundaries by trying to break into his house, after they'd separated and he'd changed the locks. As Holloway said, her verbal viciousness is well-documented, as is her track record of gettin' physical when angered. (I still can't quite wrap my head around her dumping a pitcher of water over Paul's lawyer's head... in the courtroom. That is just... wow.) Also, and this is RANK speculation, but I sure got a sinking feeling in my stomach when her claims of him cutting her arm with a broken glass came right on the heels of her allegation that Paul was such a wino that he had to get stitches in his arm after "falling on a stick" (???) while taking a drunken ramble 'round the farm. That's a pretty creepy coincidence to me.

Then again, I can easily believe Paul can be most unpleasant when mad and/or drunk, and Mills' stories may indeed contain grains of truth. He is no shrinking violet, and I don't think he ever would have tolerated abusive behavior in a mate if he hadn't been in such bad shape after Linda died. Still having crying jags every day, 18 months after losing a spouse, goes beyond normal grief, or even normal depression -- he was terribly vulnerable when they met. After a while, he may have had second thoughts, but by then it probably would have been a blow to his pride to admit he'd been wrong and get the "I told you so" treatment from everybody and their dog.

In the end, however, Heather Mills is still a human being. She had a horrendous upbringing, and while that isn't an "excuse," it should be taken into account (just like so many people fall over themselves to do re: John). Much of the mindless savaging she took from the press was absolutely cruel and unnecessary. Last but not least: her disability is entirely irrelevant and "jokes" mocking it are, to me, incredibly offensive.

***See correction in post below***

27 December 2013
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Also, and this is RANK speculation, but I sure got a sinking feeling in my stomach when her claims of him cutting her arm with a broken glass came right on the heels of her allegation that Paul was such a wino that he had to get stitches in his arm after "falling on a stick" (???) while taking a drunken ramble 'round the farm. That's a pretty creepy coincidence to me.

That is chilling and I had forgotten about that. I believe Mills from some sort of personality disorder like Narcissistic Personality Disorder or something. I do think she suffered terrible abuse at the hands of her father, who was also apparently a compulsive liar and fantasist. But with people like that, often you can only glimpse their true selves when they project it onto other people. So if they say someone cut their arm, for example, it's really because that's what they did to someone else.

What really creeps me out about Mills and makes me suspect it's a deep seated mental illness, not just gold-digging, is the way she acts when caught on her lies. The judge's ruling in their divorce was devastating with the evidence of how she would tell the judge she made X amount of money and donated X amount to charities, but couldn't produce tax returns and the charities denied ever receiving a dime.  Most people who are trying to pull one over or con someone are also smart enough to avoid situations where they might be revealed. A smart con artist would've taken Paul's initial offer and never gone to court. But Mills was so brazen she didn't seem phased at all whenever caught out.

There's that chilling part in the divorce judgment where she emailed Paul's finance manager to get money to pay the mortgage on a house she owned. The finance manager was like, "What mortgage?" She insisted that home had a mortgage on it and he insisted on getting bank numbers and paperwork before he would pay her a dime. Turns out that, of course, it was proven in court that the house in question NEVER had a mortgage on it. She was completely lying in order to get a check out of Paul's account (thank God he has smart cookies working for him). But instead of being chastised or feeling guilty, her attitude is basically, "So what?" Reminds me also of that journalist who once confronted her on using the CV of a journalist who was also named Heather Mills. This guy knew the other Heather and confronted Mills about stealing that woman's identity and her reaction was basically a blank. No remorse or comprehension she'd done anything wrong. Scary. 

The judge even called her out on in the divorce. He basically said her attitude was that everything Paul has she should just automatically get, with no comprehension that he worked for it or that his wealth came from before their marriage. The judge said frequently the only reasoning she offered as to why she should have something was basically, "Because I want it." Like she cannot comprehend why things wouldn't be given to her because she decided she wanted them and was shocked when anyone disagreed. 

What made the saddest about the divorce judgment though is that there were several points where Paul was nice about her and gave her credit for things (like being a good mother) but there was nothing at all where she praised him. She even argue that she acted as Paul's "therapist" and the judge was basically like, "Er, you mean you provided the basic support any person would give someone they claimed to love?"

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27 December 2013
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acmac
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Holloway said

Most people who are trying to pull one over or con someone are also smart enough to avoid situations where they might be revealed. A smart con artist would've taken Paul's initial offer and never gone to court. But Mills was so brazen she didn't seem phased at all whenever caught out.

Isn't that a diagnostic feature of compulsive lying -- telling lies even when they work against your interests? The identity theft and the kidnapping story are good examples of that. She even wrote about the latter in her book, which was spectacularly stupid. (After some googling I found my initial memory was inaccurate: Mills claimed both she and the friend were kidnapped for three days. The friend said she was molested by the man but never kidnapped, and hated having her identity revealed in connection to the incident. She sued Mills, quite rightly, and won a settlement.)

Even Mills' publicist quit on her and threatened to sue her for continually lying to the press; eventually her divorce attorneys quit, too (and this despite being guaranteed a fat payout, whatever happened).

I don't know; is it possible for someone to be so disturbed that they begin to actually believe their own lies and projections onto others? Some combination of compulsive lying and a delusional disorder?

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