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Paul's Granny Shit Music
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6 August 2013
10.53pm
acmac
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fabfouremily said

Paul has always been capable of visualising what he wanted to do with his set of lyrics, whereas John had some brilliant words but often no direction to take them in. So, he seeked other people's help to direct him.

Agreed. I think Paul's and John's weaknesses (with lyrics and music respectively) are interestingly similar. John didn't have much patience for arrangement or studio work, and wanted to get things done quickly. In his own words to Paul during the LIB sessions, "I just don't hear the flutes playing, or whatever." So if he didn't already have some inspiration about how the music should go, he wouldn't bother sitting down and working something out. Similarly, according to John, if Paul got stuck on the lyrics, he would "avoid the problem" due to insecurity instead of working it out. Then again, I think Paul tends to be underrated as a lyricist, but when there is a problem, that's where it comes from, IMO.

7 August 2013
12.03am
thesnazz
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Granny shit music?
I don get it?

And i hope "THE BEATLES BIBLE" doesnt become anther
second rate beatle site by letting direspectful language be
posted. Certain words should be filtered or deleted by a program
or by site moderators

A true Beatles wouldnt post a question in this manner just o get attention,
Just common sence.

Thank you
THE SNAZZ apple01

7 August 2013
12.28am
Linde
The Netherlands
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meanmistermustard said
Why would anyone turn their nose up at Octopus's Garden, its a fabulous, fun song to play? Just listen to the harmonies in the background vocals for a start and then you have George's guitar solo. Same goes for Lovely Rita and Rocky Raccoon. I hate stuffy people who fling poo at certain Beatle songs for not taking 3 days to write and how the a minor chord goes to G sharp instead of F major in the treble chord and George's triangle is unnecessary.

 

I always love how you word things.

 

Yeah I'm not a real fan either then. Because OG is even in my top10 of Beatles songs and I love all of those songs mentioned. Nothing wrong with them and why would a fan turn their nose up at any of them? They may not be lyrical and musical masterpieces but they're fun songs, and are well constructed too.

7 August 2013
1.05am
meanmistermustard
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thesnazz said
Granny shit music?
I don get it?

And i hope "THE BEATLES BIBLE" doesnt become anther
second rate beatle site by letting direspectful language be
posted. Certain words should be filtered or deleted by a program
or by site moderators

A true Beatles wouldnt post a question in this manner just o get attention,
Just common sence.

Thank you
THE SNAZZ apple01

I get what you are saying and thankfully this forum isn't filled with bad language all the time (occasionally some is uttered (including by me) but folks here are 99% clean tongued) but Granny Shit is a John term for some of Pauls tracks like Ob-La-Di... so its not about getting attention but is using a phrase attributed to a Beatle to address such topic.

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9 August 2013
11.42pm
Duke_of_Kirkcaldy
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fabfouremily said

I agree with you. Paul has always been capable of visualising what he wanted to do with his set of lyrics, whereas John had some brilliant words but often no direction to take them in. So, he seeked other people's help to direct him. This is apparent in the examples that you give. However, I don't really see how that affects the capability and talent they had as individual songwriters, but as artists, in general. Is that clear?

Yes, that's clear.  Still, the lack of variety in production and/or arrangements is why I remain frustratingly underwhelmed with a good deal of John's solo work.  ahdn_paul_01

6 July 2014
3.27am
JauntyMonty
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I really love Martha My Dear! (if it is a granny song; I'm just guessing granny poo music is a Beatles McCartney that's pretty calm and talks about random people) It's very jaunty and I love the different instrumentals to it.

"Something in the way she moves . . . attracts me like a pomegranate" - George Harrison
6 July 2014
3.43am
Ron Nasty
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Welcome @JauntyMonty!  Ooo, I see that's a name change. Have you introduced yourself across on the introduce yourself thread? Anyway...

"Granny shit music" was a description used by John in his 1970 Rolling Stone interview. He used it to describe three 1968/69 songs by McCartney. The first was Ob-La-Di..., the second and third, which Johnny really hated, were Maxwell's Silver Hammer and Teddy Boy.

"I only said we were bigger than Rod... and now there's all this!" Ron Nasty

 

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6 July 2014
4.00am
Bulldog
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a-hard-days-night-ringo-8 I actually really enjoy all three of those songs, so...I  don't agree with John on this one. :P Teddy Boy, of course, didn't make it onto a Beatles album (and mmm would say luckily so a-hard-days-night-george-10)  I prefer Teddy Boy on McCartney anyway, Linda's backing vocals are really nice.

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6 July 2014
4.01am
JauntyMonty
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Yep, I thought that rf61014 (my username for EVERYTHING) was just so boring so I changed it to JauntyMonty because I love Monty Python (I see you do too, @Ron Nasty ) and Jaunty just rhymes with Monty. And yep, that's already done!

So Granny poo music (yeah, I'm not the sweary type, even if it is quoted and online) is only limited to three songs? Well, I guess out of those three it'd have to be Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Da. Nothing pooey about jaunty raggae music!

"Something in the way she moves . . . attracts me like a pomegranate" - George Harrison
6 July 2014
4.33am
Ron Nasty
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@JauntyMonty I don't think it was limited to three songs, just that John used three songs to illustrate the type of Paul songs he had a problem with.

"I only said we were bigger than Rod... and now there's all this!" Ron Nasty

 

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6 July 2014
8.45am
SeraTheBeatle
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I adore Paul's "granny shit music". cx

I just really don't dislike that type of music.

~George Harrison is my husband. <33
6 July 2014
10.52am
Wigwam
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You know what John means…….. Bit unfair though. Paul wrote/writes all types of songs. Songs that I dislike, others will love…..Some of them will be grannies.. And…..'Your Granny should know'

 

Some of Paul's songs are considered trite and forgettable, partly because John's glib criticism has stuck. Whether John's comments were tinged with jealousy as no restaurant violinist ever hovered over the lovestruck Lennon table playing, 'I'm The walrus' we'll never know.

 

Yet John, who claimed the artistic high ground for himself owed many debts to Paul's ideas for his songs…..Think intro' to 'Strawberry fields' think 'seagulls'  for 'Tomorrow Never Knows'. John, the intellectual managed to concoct memorable songs based on 'Three Blind Mice'…….'All You Need Is Love'….'Instant Karma' as examples. But somehow when John does it…... it's OK……… It's John …..'he's being deliberately minimalist……It's very clever really.'  

I'm a John fan…….. But it's typical John to put his rival down……….He does it to himself…'It's Only Love'…(a beautiful melody) he writes off as 'complete garbage' so why not Paul and 'The Beatles' as well…...But if anyone else like Jagger has a dig at the Beatles John leaps to his mates defence.

 

If John and Paul were sometimes, 'chalk and cheese' they could also be 'cheese and cheese' and 'chalk and chalk'

They had relative strengths which set them on different paths creatively but they could both be each other at a push……There was respect and jealousy in their friendship.

Bloody lucky for all of us really. 

16 July 2014
12.47am
Oudis
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Duke_of_Kirkcaldy said

fabfouremily said

I agree with you. Paul has always been capable of visualising what he wanted to do with his set of lyrics, whereas John had some brilliant words but often no direction to take them in. So, he seeked other people's help to direct him. This is apparent in the examples that you give. However, I don't really see how that affects the capability and talent they had as individual songwriters, but as artists, in general. Is that clear?

Yes, that's clear.  Still, the lack of variety in production and/or arrangements is why I remain frustratingly underwhelmed with a good deal of John's solo work.  ahdn_paul_01

It seems to me –though I may be wrong– that Paul learned how to be a producer, maybe because of working for so many years with George Martin; John on the other hand remained a songwriter, singer and guitar player. But let’s remember that John took a long break from music, and was killed when he was forty. Who knows, maybe he would have become a bit of a producer as well if he had lived.

Forsan et haec olim meminisse juvabit” (“Perhaps one day it will be a pleasure to look back on even this”; Virgil, The Aeneid, Book 1, line 203, where Aeneas says this to his men after the shipwreck that put them on the shores of Africa)

16 July 2014
1.14am
Mimi
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I think the music that your parents play (if any) will come out in the music you produce. Take something like Til There Was You- thats the kind of thing Paul's dad would have played. In my case, I wouldn't give a damn about classical guitar, but because that's what my dad plays, it comes out in my music. I appreciate, understand it, and even enjoy listening to it, even though I play and write rockabilly. My dad didn't teach me guitar, and Paul's father didn't really teach him, but it still ends up influencing you in a big way. 

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16 July 2014
2.37am
meanmistermustard
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John was a producer. He produced Nilsson's Pussy Cats LP, Too Many Cooks by Mick Jagger and many of his own solo albums (Mind Games, Walls and Bridges, shared credit for POB, tho Spector was only there at the end) and there was probably more.

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16 July 2014
6.02am
Oudis
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I didn’t know that, Meanmrmustard –oops. I was just trying to figure out why Duke_of_Kirkcaldy wrote about John’slack of variety in production and/or arrangements”. But I confess that I know Paul’s solo career more than I know John’s (I only remember a few songs, like Starting Over, Mind Games, Instant Karma, etc.) Perhaps such lack of variety in production and arrangements is a topic open to discussion. And yes Mimi, the kind of music our parents listen to come out in the music we produce, and in some cases even the music we listen to.

Forsan et haec olim meminisse juvabit” (“Perhaps one day it will be a pleasure to look back on even this”; Virgil, The Aeneid, Book 1, line 203, where Aeneas says this to his men after the shipwreck that put them on the shores of Africa)

16 July 2014
9.57am
Funny Paper
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I'm surprised that Paul hasn't come out with an album of glossy Cole Porter and Gershwin tunes (even Rod Stewart tried that a few years ago...) -- sort of granny music on steroids, so to say.  I heard that when he entertained Obama a couple of years ago, Paul did play some Gershwin classics on the White House piano for a select audience...

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16 July 2014
1.28pm
Wigwam
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Nothing wrong with those two songwriters…...

16 July 2014
2.56pm
Ron Nasty
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Though it could be said he did that album with Kisses on the Bottom, just selected different writers.

And, remember, Rod did the American Songwriters series because he gave up songwriting, something Paul has never done.

"I only said we were bigger than Rod... and now there's all this!" Ron Nasty

 

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16 July 2014
7.24pm
S. B. Fields
New York
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American Songbook has one Cole Porter song (Ev’ry Time We Say Goodbye), but, sadly, Kisses on the Bottom has none!

It would be a true joy to hear a “duet” with Sir Paul accompanying a vintage recording of a Cole Porter song. Applying the “Free As A Bird” treatment, with building harmony and instrumental texture around the original arrangement, could turn out to be either brilliant or disastrous…depending on the producer and how many cooks are in the kitchen.

 

My choice would be 1929’s What Is This Thing Called Love (YouTube link, below) as a romantic natural for Paul’s “Granny ****“ style… or one of Porter’s more clever wordplay songs: You’re the Top, Anything Goes, Let’s Do It (Let’s Fall in Love).

 

I’m sure this will never happen, but I really can hear it in my mind’s ear…

 

The gongs (or cymbals?) in the intro even offer some air space for Ringo to wiggle a tambourine, clank a cowbell, or shake maracas:

 

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