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Paul v.s. George on Lead Guitar
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3 March 2014
7.15am
markburgle
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Does anyone know who played what on She Came In Through The Bathroom Window? Paul AND George are credited with lead, so at first I thought maybe Paul did the answering riffs in the verses and George did the other more jammy stuff. However I don't think those parts overlap at all, and they sound like they could be the same guitar track, sound wise.

Somehow, given how much Paul was dominating (especially on his own stuff), it would make me happy if those answering phrases are Georges. They really make the song

3 March 2014
7.57am
Ron Nasty
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@markburgle While not being able to be precise on who played what bit, I can help with the way it was recorded - which offers some direction as to who played what. Bathroom Window was recorded along with Polythene Pam beginning on the 25 July 1969 (the two songs being recorded as one track, rather than edited together later - so it's Polythene Pam/She Came In Through The Bathroom Window). On that day they recorded, over 39 takes, the basic track. That consisted of Paul on bass, George on lead, John on acoustic, Ringo on drums, with guide vocals from John and Paul where appropriate. The only survivors from this basic track were George's lead and John's acoustic.

There seems to have been a problem with Ringo's drumming (John complaining that it "sounds like Dave Clark!"). Before the day was out, drums, bass, and vocals would be replaced.

On the 26 July they made various overdubs, another lead vocal, acoustic and electric guitars, various bits of percussion including tambourine, and an electric and normal piano.

More vocals, percussion and guitar were added on 30 July, the day the first rough version of the medley was put together.

So, the basic lead guitar part is definitely George. Were I to guess, I would suggest that both may have overdubbed bits on 26, while Paul alone would have done the last bits he wanted on 30. That is just a guess though.

 

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3 March 2014
3.56pm
LikeASir
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If I remember correctly, wasn't George pissed off how on Taxman he spent ages trying to make the solo then Paul just came in and improvised the whole thing? Or am I just entering the realms of fantasy here? paul-mccartney

"White Album - My joint-fave Beatles album along with Revolver. They show the two sides of Beatles. Revolver's very controlled - even though it's also very innovative. The White Album's playful and almost ramshackle. It's like a scrapbook kept by a genius. Fantastic stuff."

3 March 2014
7.47pm
Inner Light
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I really don't think George would not have been able to do a guitar solo for Taxman no matter what Emmerick say's in his book.

He was pro Paul anyway. I think he was nice enough to let Paul do a little solo in one of his songs and he even said that Paul did a little Indian bit for him in Taxman

I would say that any guitar solo in a Beatles song that sounds complicated, George probably played it. That is how proficient he was on the guitar. 

 

The further one travels, the less one knows
3 March 2014
9.23pm
IveJustSeenAFaceo
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Inner Light said
I really don't think George would not have been able to do a guitar solo for Taxman no matter what Emmerick say's in his book.

He was pro Paul anyway. I think he was nice enough to let Paul do a little solo in one of his songs and he even said that Paul did a little Indian bit for him in Taxman

I would say that any guitar solo in a Beatles song that sounds complicated, George probably played it. That is how proficient he was on the guitar. 

 

I'm fairly sure Lewisohn mentions the same thing as Emerick (I'm not sure though, anyone?). And I'm fairly sure George wouldn't have let Paul take the solo on his song, unless he really really couldn't nail it.

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3 March 2014
10.12pm
vonbontee
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LikeASir said

If I remember correctly, wasn't George pissed off how on Taxman he spent ages trying to make the solo then Paul just came in and improvised the whole thing? Or am I just entering the realms of fantasy here? paul-mccartney

I don't think that solo was improvised - it sounds too nicely composed to be a one-off. In fact, I've long believed that the backwards-guitar solo in "Tomorrow Never Knows" is actually assorted snippets from Paul's (George's??) earlier attempts at a "Taxman" solo.

Indian music can't be listened to the same way you hear rock and roll. You cannot do 'Yea Yea' and 'Go Man Go' - Ravi Shankar

6 March 2014
11.05pm
markburgle
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mja6758 said
@markburgle While not being able to be precise on who played what bit, I can help with the way it was recorded - which offers some direction as to who played what. Bathroom Window was recorded along with Polythene Pam beginning on the 25 July 1969 (the two songs being recorded as one track, rather than edited together later - so it's Polythene Pam/She Came In Through The Bathroom Window). On that day they recorded, over 39 takes, the basic track. That consisted of Paul on bass, George on lead, John on acoustic, Ringo on drums, with guide vocals from John and Paul where appropriate. The only survivors from this basic track were George's lead and John's acoustic.

There seems to have been a problem with Ringo's drumming (John complaining that it "sounds like Dave Clark!"). Before the day was out, drums, bass, and vocals would be replaced.

On the 26 July they made various overdubs, another lead vocal, acoustic and electric guitars, various bits of percussion including tambourine, and an electric and normal piano.

More vocals, percussion and guitar were added on 30 July, the day the first rough version of the medley was put together.

So, the basic lead guitar part is definitely George. Were I to guess, I would suggest that both may have overdubbed bits on 26, while Paul alone would have done the last bits he wanted on 30. That is just a guess though.

 

cheers for the input, my suspicion is that Paul did those answering riffs, they seem a bit perky/poppy for George at that point

7 March 2014
2.05am
Musketeer Gripweed
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markburgle said
Does anyone know who played what on She Came In Through The Bathroom Window? Paul AND George are credited with lead, so at first I thought maybe Paul did the answering riffs in the verses and George did the other more jammy stuff. However I don't think those parts overlap at all, and they sound like they could be the same guitar track, sound wise.

Somehow, given how much Paul was dominating (especially on his own stuff), it would make me happy if those answering phrases are Georges. They really make the song

Hey, I know on the anthology version at the end Paul is talking to someone either John or George about the guitar arrangement.  He mentions that he liked the nice bit like an oldie, one of them did. Check it out it might be the sequence you are talking about. A much slower version from the 3rd anthology believe disc 1. 

7 March 2014
2.38am
meanmistermustard
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kezron9 said

markburgle said
Does anyone know who played what on She Came In Through The Bathroom Window? Paul AND George are credited with lead, so at first I thought maybe Paul did the answering riffs in the verses and George did the other more jammy stuff. However I don't think those parts overlap at all, and they sound like they could be the same guitar track, sound wise.

Somehow, given how much Paul was dominating (especially on his own stuff), it would make me happy if those answering phrases are Georges. They really make the song

Hey, I know on the anthology version at the end Paul is talking to someone either John or George about the guitar arrangement.  He mentions that he liked the nice bit like an oldie, one of them did. Check it out it might be the sequence you are talking about. A much slower version from the 3rd anthology believe disc 1. 

Disc 2. Disc 1 ends on Julia.

Don’t make your love suffer insecurities, trade the baggage of self to set another one free. ('Paper Skin' - Kendall Payne)
8 March 2014
2.53am
acmac
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Inner Light said
I agree with the commercial aspect of McCartney's songs. He definitely wrote songs that would fit that genre. Harrison and Lennon wrote songs they wanted to write and weren't focused on whether or not they would become hits or not. An artist needs to express their thoughts and feelings when writing compositions. I know in the beginning, they had a formula they used which turned out a lot of hits but as time progressed, the songs became more sophisticated and everything changed on how they wrote. They wrote for themselves and not just trying to pump out a hit song. McCartney has always been the showman of the Beatles and of course Ringo has become more of a showman over the years also. A talent is in the eyes of the beholder. Personally, I will take an artist that writes and speaks from their heart over anyone who just writes songs to sell it and play the game of commercialism.

I think it's pretty harsh to say Paul doesn't write from his heart and just tries to pump out hits and play the game of commercialism.

I'll agree that George's music was more consistent, and much more tightly centered around the things most important to him -- and I totally get why many people would find that more appealing in an artist! But Paul has surely written just as many, just as meaningful, songs from the heart. Songs that resonate deeply with the hearts of his fans. Those hearts may be a different shape than yours, but that doesn't mean they ain't there.

The main difference I think is that Paul doesn't use music to express "important" things exclusively. He uses music for everything. It's his escape, his distraction, his addiction, medicine, pet, anchor, toy, teacher, friend, and hairbrush. A very necessary channel for his excess energy. Appetizer, entree, and dessert. I don't think he can help himself. I don't think he would if he could. He is probably a little bit crazy. One day he may snap and start walking around speaking in song. Sometimes he walks a fine line with that, as it is. He is frequently awkward and embarrassing. That doesn't cancel out his genius -- nor do his failures cancel out his triumphs. Breadth and depth are not mutually exclusive. 

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JPM-Fangirl
8 March 2014
3.09am
acmac
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IveJustSeenAFaceo said
I'm fairly sure Lewisohn mentions the same thing as Emerick (I'm not sure though, anyone?). And I'm fairly sure George wouldn't have let Paul take the solo on his song, unless he really really couldn't nail it.

I imagine it was more a bout of writer's block (guitarist's block?) than finger failure or whatever. Like, he was too deep into it to work out the last piece of the puzzle to his own satisfaction. It's a pretty common creative phenomenon, isn't it; everything's there except the title, or the refrain, or the character's name. Decision fatigue probably has something to do with it. So that's when an objective third party can really come in handy.

8 March 2014
3.23am
Wigwam
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I like George's stuff……….. But over the years I've discovered that some of the best things I thought he did…….he didn't!!

8 March 2014
3.35am
IveJustSeenAFaceo
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acmac said

IveJustSeenAFaceo said
I'm fairly sure Lewisohn mentions the same thing as Emerick (I'm not sure though, anyone?). And I'm fairly sure George wouldn't have let Paul take the solo on his song, unless he really really couldn't nail it.

I imagine it was more a bout of writer's block (guitarist's block?) than finger failure or whatever. Like, he was too deep into it to work out the last piece of the puzzle to his own satisfaction. It's a pretty common creative phenomenon, isn't it; everything's there except the title, or the refrain, or the character's name. Decision fatigue probably has something to do with it. So that's when an objective third party can really come in handy.

Funny you mention that, I worked out a song a few weeks ago, but I just could not figure out a chorus that worked. Then I discovered I'd accidentally pilfered the main riff from a One Direction song, and that was the end of that.

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acmac

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23 March 2014
5.18pm
acmac
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IveJustSeenAFaceo said
Funny you mention that, I worked out a song a few weeks ago, but I just could not figure out a chorus that worked. Then I discovered I'd accidentally pilfered the main riff from a One Direction song, and that was the end of that.

LOL! That's awesomely hilarious.a-hard-days-night-paul-10

23 March 2014
9.32pm
Musketeer Gripweed
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That is funny. Yeah I am actually having trouble with the chorus of a song I was working on. Then it popped into my head when I was watching a movie at a friends, left to rush home and finish. Love working on music think I am going to leave it as an acoustic ballad and a solo song. Maybe it can be my yesterday lol. Just played a side set at SXSW with band, and did a two week west coast tour. 

18 January 2015
8.40pm
SirHuddlestonFuddleston
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I'd like to resurrect this topic with an observation: we have recorded evidence of John. George, and Paul playing lead guitar, all at the same time -- The End. They take two bars each, Paul, then George, then John, the cycle repeats once. It's very obvious who is playing which two bars from their styles: Paul is jagged and driving, George is melodic with jumps, and John is grungy, rhythm-style.

I've read that the solos were improvised on the spot, that this the one time in the studio where John told Yoko to stay in the control room ("won't be a minute, luv"), and it's the last time, John, Paul, George, and Ringo were all in the studio playing instruments together.

I think it is true, that there were many times where George couldn't manage a solo for technical reasons, and he was practically humiliated when Paul just tore one off which was better than what he struggled with. I think George and John were excellent musicians, but Paul was a natural talent which appears very seldom. Paul was also the only real piano player in the group (though I wouldn't put him at Billy Preston level -- his drumming is just horrible however.) I'm not talking about the dudes as songwriters or singers, just their technical ability on their instruments. 

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Wigwam
19 January 2015
12.46am
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Mostly agree Sir Hudd except I think his drumming's pretty good too…….As is his Recorder playing. He can get a tune out of anything Paul.

Whether Paul and George saw 'The End' as a competition I don't know……….But I have to give it to John……..He just gives a belligerent statement.

Love them all.

19 January 2015
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ewe2
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Interesting ideas in this thread. I think the "problem" if there was one with George's solos is the very idea that there had to be a solo in every song at all. You've got a guy having trouble getting a word in for his songs and then he has to come up with some solo for a song he doesn't care about, and half his ideas get shot down anyway. They started changing who played what instrument around which helped a bit but they were still married to the idea that there has to be a solo at this point. The best example of this weakness surely is All You Need Is Love where the solo is just pointless. That fact was very effectively mocked by the Rutles song Love Life. So fine, if Paul can hear a solo, let him do it, why bother George with it, its just a chore to him at that point. Why else get Clapto to solo in While My Guitar Gently Weeps? Now that's a solo. Essentially its a songwriting problem, not an instrumentalist problem. Another example is the idiocy with the solos in Let It Be. Now I prefer the single version but the confusion with a bunch of other solos indicates the mindset stuck with the idea of a solo but not knowing which one actually works.

In conclusion, I don't think George had the kind of issue with it that some may think, he would have been happier if he just got more time for his songs. That was more of a challenge to him than a solo.

20 January 2015
10.54am
Sun King
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Anyone who knows anything about the guitar (not saying any of you don't) will know that George was more advanced than Paul. Yes, Paul had a cool style and may have been the flashier player, but George's knowledge of chords went beyond what anybody else in the band knew. He was adept at playing in different styles, and he was the absolute best at making sure that everything was about the song. I once read (can't remember where, sorry), that although Clapton, for example, had a more powerful sound say on Cream's interpretation of Crossroads, many of George's solos were harmonically superior and more technical than his.

Think of it this way. Look at the songs that George added too with his guitar parts, no matter how subtle they may be, and how a lot of them wouldn't nearly be as recognisable if not for what he had put in. There are numerous. I feel like this is a conversation only because of what Emerick put in his book, where he failed to realise that a lot of George's greatness in his solos was due to his meticulous nature, no matter how slow he could be with developing them. He wanted to make it exactly right for that particular song. We wouldn't have had one of the greatest solos of all time in Something if it wasn't for that. 

This isn't an attack on Paul. I adore his guitar playing, as I do for John as well, and all three are a big influence. 

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