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Our "cute Beatle" not really so cute in Vancouver.
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15 January 2013
5.10pm
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Funny Paper
America
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I prefer honesty to hypocrisy -- I don't care if the person is a celebrity or not. 

The main thing about celebrities -- doesn't matter if they are actors, musicians, film directors, writers, artists:  If they are good at their craft, then they are good at producing their product which I, as a consumer, want to enjoy enough to pay money for it.  They are my employees -- they are OUR employees.  We don't pay John Lennon to preach about his fucking delusional utopian pacifism and West-hatred (of course, if you like that drivel, you might appreciate his extra-curricular activities); we don't pay McCartney to be a "nice guy" or to protect the Animal Kingdom; we don't pay George Harrison or Carlos Santana to lecture us about New Age peace & harmony and "higher consciousness"; we don't pay comedians like John Stewart for political science analysis (or at least we shouldn't).

I just want Art from an artist.  The rest is usually crap, because they're just ordinary humps with a subjective opinion like the rest of us.

 

Faded flowers, wait in a jar, till the evening is complete... complete... complete... complete...
16 January 2013
4.16am
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Funny Paper
America
Apple rooftop
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On Paul's "control" problem, I recall a scene in the movie Let It Be where he's apparently instructing Billy Preston a tad too much, and one can tell -- at least it seemed so to me -- that Billy was beginning to get a little fed up, though he kept it rather bottled up.

 

Faded flowers, wait in a jar, till the evening is complete... complete... complete... complete...
16 January 2013
7.40am
linkjws
The Star-Club
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24 September 2012
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Will T. said
Well, linkjws said:

the Point of my complaint about the recent Macca concert is that my friend and I were treated like criminals, pushed and shoved, and told we had wasted our $500, because we were NOT entering with the camera. For Heaven's Sake, it's just a freakin' camera! How UPTIGHT does the Macca Roadshow have to be??? That was a really unpleasant experience - all on behalf of Control Freak Macca. Frankly, I think HE owes us an apology. What don't you understand about being pushed and shoved and told we were forfeiting our money, all because my friend happened to have a nice camera?

How would you feel, if it had been you?

linkjws said
I don't see the point to all of this.  I am sorry if his concert left you bitter about the man, but he is just a human.  All of The Beatles have had every aspect of their life endlessly put under the microscope, and as it turns out all of them were simply people; full of mistakes and imperfections like the rest of us.  Yes the man has an incredible talent.  Yes he was a Beatle.  But, he was just as flawed as Lennon, Harrison, or Starr. And sure he runs a tight, questionably dictator-like ship, but until I have met Paul on a personal level (which I most likely never will); I will continue to think he is just who I see him to be.  A little arrogant, a little flashy, but no doubt a good person.  

I have nothing nice to say and therefore will say nothing at all.

16 January 2013
3.41pm
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Ron Nasty
"Where have you been?" "I'm not telling you..."
Apple rooftop
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17 December 2012
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I don't think, Will, that your views were met with any lack of civility. You were met with civil disagreements over your opinion of McCartney, some agreement over some of McCartney's flaws, and questioning of what you were hoping to achieve You admit that your original post was intended to be inflammatory, to see what response you could get from us. I have already said what I think that response was. It was certainly did not consist of us setting our own hairs on fire.

Also, did you not say you received an e-mail before the concert saying "no flash cameras". If your friend's camera was as good as you make  it sound, it surely had a flash?

The biggest disappointment to me is that you, as a journalist, said in the post where you attempted to close this thread with, "I have the power. 'Made you look. Made you stare. Made you & etc.etc, Ha ha!'" You make yourself sound like the type of person who'd happily shout "Fire!" in a crowded just to see what happens. Living in a country where we have seen staggering abuses by journalists of the freedoms they perceive they have, abuses that have resulted in criminal charges, it is sad to see someone calling themself a journalist setting the bar so low for responsible comment.

However, Funny Paper, yours are by far the most objectionable comments I have found in this thread. I do not, have not, could never consider John, Paul, George and Ringo as my employees. Even were they my employees, what right would that give me over the expression of their views. Also, much of their music, together and apart, express their personal views. Revolution. Give Ireland Back to the Irish. My Sweet Lord. Happy Xmas (War Is Over). Pipes Of Peace. Give Me Love (Give Me Peace on Earth). Give Peace A Chance. Ebony and Ivory. The Concert for Bangla-Desh. The Concert for Kampuchea. The "One-to-One" concert. Et al.

At worst you could see them as independent contractors, like plumbers, or electricians. The job of the artist, especially those who write their own words, is to reflect the world as they see and understand it, without any regard for their audience. There are lots of complaints on this site about how vacuous and empty so much modern music. That is because so much modern music is made by those selling what they think the market want, rather than what they believe.

You may not want to hear John talk about peace, Paul about animal rights, or George God-consciousness, but that is what produced so much of that good music we love.

Even if we were to go down the line of their being our employees, you have to admit that few of their employers have no interest in hearing what they have to say or believe beyond music.

"I only said we were bigger than Rod... and now there's all this!" Ron Nasty

17 January 2013
9.22am
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Funny Paper
America
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mja6758 said However, Funny Paper, yours are by far the most objectionable comments I have found in this thread. I do not, have not, could never consider John, Paul, George and Ringo as my employees. Even were they my employees, what right would that give me over the expression of their views.

Well, I never said I want to enforce my views on them.  I'm just describing what they are in the relationship.  If there were no money involved, it would be different.  But artists who make millions, and in addition are granted a rare platform of fame and often adoring credibility and authority for their opinions, seem to me to be abusing the relationship they have with us.  I don't believe in trying to limit their freedom to do that.  I just wish the public would be a little more savvy about it, and sneer and mock them appriopriately for it.  For me, by the way, this isn't a partisan thing politically: if a famous musician did the same for some political position I support, I'd feel the same.  I suppose I have a peculiar point of view on the Famous Artist/Fan relationship: I think of them as our jesters, and we the common people as their kings being entertained.  The irony is that they are kings in terms of wealth, fame and influence, while we are for the most part relative paupers.

I don't believe in indulging this view quite as much as that ordinary guy did in the famous Dylan documentary "Don't Look Back" (filmed in England in 1969):  There was a scene where Dylan was in a hotel room with a bunch of hangers-on (a couple of them were famous, I think Donovan was there), and one guy who was just an ordinary bloke (and perhaps a bit inebriated) started going on a rant -- but I think he had a point -- saying to Dylan "I'm just a fucking nobody, but you're big special 'Bob Dylan', your opinion matters, mine doesn't..." etc.  The only thing I wonder is whether the words of that guy sank in to Dylan's mind; because they expose a fundamental hypocrisy about him pretending to be against hypocrisy and power, while he's indulging his status as a person given his fame by his surrounding society.  Like I said, I'm not quite as angry as that guy in that documentary; but I remain deeply unimpressed by celebrities -- and all the more so when they pretend to be "above" celebrity.

 

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