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Ocean's Kingdom - Paul McCartney's ballet score
25 September 2011
1.22am
mr. Sun king coming together
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There really appears to be no middle ground with McCartney fans. They either love him or despise him. And frankly, he hasn't had many "fantastic" albums recently, since, IMO, 1973. He's had good/great albums, but nothing fantastic since BOTR.

I tried to think of something powerful and moving… and failed.  "You were given a choice between war and dishonor - you chose dishonor, and you shall have war" - Winston Churchill
25 September 2011
1.33am
kedame
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I don't understand you, sun king. I said nothing about him having fantastic albums or whatever. I said people seem to think he is a no talent hack. Besides, who cares if they are fantastic albums? I said he still has creativity and drive. Whether they are groundbreaking or not, I still enjoy them.

Lordy, I said I was going to stop defending my love of all of his music, but it appears I can't. I really don't care if all of it isn't the quality of BOTR or Ram or Sgt. Pepper's.

All I meant was why can't the man just put on a good fucking show without someone crawling out of the woodwork to take a stab at him? It's a new ballet, for God's sake. It isn't going to be as good as Swan Lake or The Nutcracker, but it can still be enjoyable.

9

"You can manicure a cat but can you caticure a man?" John Lennon- Skywriting by Word of Mouth
25 September 2011
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Into the Sky with Diamonds
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"I guess those days are just over for him because people seem to have written him off as a no-talent hack after the 70s (or when John died)"

Kedame, it's worse than that: people wrote him off as soon as the Beatles broke up. Some of his hits were seen as saccharine and a sign of him gone lame (or missing John's influence)....

"Into the Sky with Diamonds" (the Beatles and the Race to the Moon – a history)
25 September 2011
1.41am
mr. Sun king coming together
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And all I said was that there was no "middle ground" with Paul. Look, I get it, you love Paul. But stop diluting my words. He has every right to do what he wants, but critics should use the same standard for Paul as they use for Blooby McBlooberson. So, I'd really rather not having you attack me for making a point. It doesn't make your point more right, but it sure pisses me of me.

I tried to think of something powerful and moving… and failed.  "You were given a choice between war and dishonor - you chose dishonor, and you shall have war" - Winston Churchill
25 September 2011
1.51am
kedame
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I didn't attack you, but I wanted to. Oh, how I wanted to. All I did was clarify my points. The problem with the criticism of McCartney is that he is not treated like anyone else. If he makes a ballet, suddenly he should revolutionize the whole art? Umm…no. All he wanted was to put on a good show, and from what I can see, it looks like a pretty good show.

For God's sake, sometimes I don't even know why I post here. You are so rude most of the time that I just angrier every time I come on here. Do you intentionally piss people off, or is it just a natural side of your personality? I can't really tell. I think maybe I should just take a break from all Beatles boards. It would make my pulse lower significantly.

And I don't even know what you mean by diluting your points. Where did I do that?

"You can manicure a cat but can you caticure a man?" John Lennon- Skywriting by Word of Mouth
25 September 2011
2.02am
mr. Sun king coming together
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I don't want you to stop posting. And I think people who expected him to revolutionise ballet are far out of line. Why would I want to piss someone off? You are wrong there. I haven't a clue if it's a good show, but if it is good, then great. And frankly, I'd love to have huge expectations. He has the high expectations because he has done great things. I really don't want you mad at me, but honestly, I really feel I try to avoid confrontation. I don't want it. I don't. Please, just, accept my apology.

I tried to think of something powerful and moving… and failed.  "You were given a choice between war and dishonor - you chose dishonor, and you shall have war" - Winston Churchill
25 September 2011
2.09am
kedame
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apple01 Truce. Sorry for ranting at you. Maybe I am a little touchy lately because I am under a lot of stress. I have a biochem test and vascular plant test on the same day next week, and I have to finish my med school application and worry over whether I'll get it done in time...whether I'll get in and whether I really want to or not. It's a strange time for me, and I have felt like shit all day.

I need to go memorize some amino acid structures, now.

"You can manicure a cat but can you caticure a man?" John Lennon- Skywriting by Word of Mouth
25 September 2011
2.32am
mithveaen
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Well one thing is for sure, Ballet critics are not going to embrace Paul's ballet that easily. So, they're not going to give rave reviews to Ocean's Kingdom even if it's this century's Nutcracker version. Look at U2's Spiderman, I have heard the album, it's not like wow but it's not the s**t the critics claim it is.

Here comes the sun….. Scoobie-doobie…… Something in the way she moves…..attracts me like a cauliflower… Bop. Bop, cat bop. Go, Johnny, Go. Beware of Darkness…  I believe in SH...
25 September 2011
2.48am
kedame
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That's a good point, mith. I guess the only thing that should matter to me is whether or not I'll like it when I see it. I don't know why I wanted it to get good reviews, like it has any bearing on me. I should have known better. (punintended)

"You can manicure a cat but can you caticure a man?" John Lennon- Skywriting by Word of Mouth
25 September 2011
5.41am
mithveaen
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The thing is that Broadaway theatre is though. They don't respect "outsiders" and they're quite harsh on them. Many Hollywood actors find it hard to succeed in Broadway, unless they have a theatre background, like Al Pacino or Sir Ian McKellen (in England).

Here comes the sun….. Scoobie-doobie…… Something in the way she moves…..attracts me like a cauliflower… Bop. Bop, cat bop. Go, Johnny, Go. Beware of Darkness…  I believe in SH...
25 September 2011
3.41pm
Joe
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Having listened to the album three times now (unlike a pop/rock album, you can't really dip in and out of a 56-minute classical recording with four movements) I think part of the problem – if you see it as such – is McCartney's lack of familiarity with writing classical music, so he adapts what he knows to fit. So you get little musical motifs that come and go, that in another guise he might have turned into a verse or a chorus of a pop song, but they don't really get expanded upon or turned into a recurring motif.

The whole thing is nice but quite forgettable. Ocean's Kingdom doesn't seem to have much in the way of memorable hooks and melodies, the way the great classical works do, and where there's countermelody or modulation it feels like he's done it because he's learnt somewhere along the line that that's what a classical piece should contain. McCartney's orchestral works seem to have none of the flair of someone who's lived with this sort of music all their life and is compelled to find a way to express it – it's more of an ersatz emulation of how he feels it should be.

Being a millionaire with enough commercial clout to get other people interested, he's able to indulge himself with these projects on a whim ("Today, Nancy, I think I'll write a ballet. Then next week I'll become a painter. After that I'll probably try my hand at directing a film…"), but they don't feel particularly authentic to me. He obeys the rules, competent and safe but low on thrills, and there's no breaking of convention or pushing of boundaries. Interestingly, in the 1960s the Beatles were rule-breakers because they didn't understand why something shouldn't be done their way, but the willingness to step outside of classical convention doesn't seem to have occurred to him. It's a shame, because I reckon his newness to the field could have been a strength.

That said, this is the soundtrack to a ballet, so it probably shouldn't be judged out of context. Although if the soundtrack is sold on its own presumably it's intended to stand on its own merits. Oh well, what do I know?

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25 September 2011
3.45pm
mr. Sun king coming together
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Joe said:

Oh well, what do I know?

Hell of a lot more then I we ever will.a-hard-days-night-george-10

I tried to think of something powerful and moving… and failed.  "You were given a choice between war and dishonor - you chose dishonor, and you shall have war" - Winston Churchill
25 September 2011
3.52pm
Joe
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Hmm. Looking back on that post, I think the criticism might seem unfair: that I'm asking for him to follow conventions and simultaneously step away from them. I guess what I'd like more is for exciting music, however it's constructed. Playing it safe shouldn't really please anyone, least of all McCartney.

Please don't spoil my day; I'm miles away

Can buy me love! Please consider using these links to support the Beatles Bible: Amazon | iTunes

25 September 2011
8.21pm
meanmistermustard
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Im not into ballet or classical music, never have been, and Macca's move into that area with the ballet isnt going to chance that. However i wasnt expecting anything too incredulous simply because he is new to the ballet scene. Im also not at all suprised that the critics have been out because for Paul they always have been. He could have created a wonderful piece of music and it would still have generated a response along the lines of 'what does he know about ballet'  from the so-called experts

 

Up until the beatles anthology in 1995/6 Paul had been criticised for nearly everything he did. The Sun newspaper printed a review of Flowers in the Dirt that ended by asking for Paul to quit. His stock has risen steadily as he has aged (wow good old Paul he hasnt retired, is still singing and can hold his guitar!!), the publics enduring love of the Beatles, and because of how Heather ended the marriage and her background.  

As for the safety aspect i've read a lot recently of bands and artists who have been complemented on keeping their sound the same, not moving on into a different approach. Seems to be where everything is just now. Maybe its down to the instability within society, keep everything ticking along nicely, dont rock the boat too much.   

Don’t make your love suffer insecurities, trade the baggage of self to set another one free. ('Paper Skin' - Kendall Payne)
25 September 2011
10.19pm
Into the Sky with Diamonds
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Joe,

Sight unseen, I'm sure you're right. That's how i felt about his previous ventures into "unchartered waters" (pardon the pun).

[Kedame, if you have U.S. med school questions, you can email me separately at ron@intotheskywithdiamonds.com]

"Into the Sky with Diamonds" (the Beatles and the Race to the Moon – a history)
26 January 2012
3.50am
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Actually went to the ballet last night - a pleasant surprise.

The music sounds better when it's the background to a ballet - not a surprise there, I suppose.

Prior to the start of the ballet, the conductor explained the music. He would make a point, and the orchestra would play a portion of the score to illustrate that point. (I felt I should be taking notes for the exam that would come at the end.)

That was rather original.

I had no problems with the costumes (Stella McC got slammed in the papers).

As Joe says, here and there were neat little mini-tunes.

And the ending was great.

"Into the Sky with Diamonds" (the Beatles and the Race to the Moon – a history)
26 January 2012
5.54am
Mrs.McCarrison
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I hate to interrupt your actually meaningful, on topic conversation, but I have I say the only reason I clicked on this thread was because I thought it was going to be about Paul's score (as in points) on a ballet routine he did called oceans kingdom. Now don't tell me that wouldent be interesting! I am litteraly laughin out loud just imaging a 69 year old man doing ballet.
After reading though the topc though, I am sad that my choir is going on a trip to NYC in march. Why not augest?!

I liked The Beatles before it was cool. (as in, I like all their music before 1965. I mean, I still like their later stuff but am very picky about what songs I like, while their older stuff I love it all. I am just not a fan of drugged out Beatles. Drugs scare me.) [  ] Single [  ] Taken [X] Mentally dating Paul McCartney George fell off the bandwagon! (inside joke)
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