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Hey Dullblog article: Plea to Paul: Let it be when it comes to claiming credit
30 July 2013
7.16pm
vonbontee
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Let's even take a basic exampe: the avant garde leanings of John and Paul in '66-'68. *WE* all know, as hardcore fans, and this is FACT, that Paul, being the only one living in London, was the first to experiment with tape loops, sound collages, and avant garde pieces. He was the driving force behind Carnival Of Light and many other sonic experiments both alone and with the band during that period. John (and Yoko) do Revolution 9, What's The New Mary Jane, and those atrocious albums in 1968-1970, and the historical record is pretty much set as "John was the avant garde/experimental one, Paul wrote soppy ballads."

 

Paul's faced not just with people thinking he wrote this and John wrote that, etc, but that HIS ENTIRE BEING and all of his talent was reduced to being a pinup who wrote sickly sweet ballads for teenage girls, while John was the "real" rock star and genius.

 

But even if it's only hardcore fans who know all that minutiae, why should he really care so much? He's filling a stadium of people who love him unconditionally. How many of them really know if he used to buy Albert Ayler records - maybe 5%? And what percentage of that percentage would even care? Why should it matter to him? And, more to my point, why doesn't he realize that there ARE folks like us, the hardcore, who already know that Paul was "the avant-garde guy"; and we know what Paul contributed to "Mr. Kite" because we've read it quoted in "Many Years From Now"! A whole book devoted to setting the record straight. And still he has to shoe-horn the fact of his co-authorship into a throwaway remark in an interview, therefore enlightening maybe 500 people that, yes, he contributed some words to that song too - 400 of whose reaction will be "(shrug)". And the rest of them will either be "Oh, yeah, I'd forgotten that" or "Hm, that's interesting" or (like me!) "We. Get. It." I think Paul's accomplishments speak for themselves, or should. Paul does not. And his refusal/inability to recognize that fact just makes him look insecure. How can such a rich man be so needy?

I just want to play. I’d like to think I could work opposite Sinatra, B.B. King, the Beatles, or a polka band... - Jazz musician Rahsaan Roland Kirk, 1967
31 July 2013
4.42am
parlance
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vonbontee said

But even if it's only hardcore fans who know all that minutiae, why should he really care so much? He's filling a stadium of people who love him unconditionally. How many of them really know if he used to buy Albert Ayler records - maybe 5%? And what percentage of that percentage would even care? Why should it matter to him?

I think you're missing the larger point that Dr. Beatle made very well. It's not the minutae that matters, it's the overall perception of his being a lightweight that's the issue, one that has dogged him his entire post-Beatles career. That would bother anyone, you don't have to be a needy person for that to be frustrating.

 

And, more to my point, why doesn't he realize that there ARE folks like us, the hardcore, who already know that Paul was "the avant-garde guy"; and we know what Paul contributed to "Mr. Kite" because we've read it quoted in "Many Years From Now"!

Why are you supposing that he doesn't realize that there are folks like us? Of course he knows. But as you just pointed out, that's a small percentage of the general fan/casual music listener population.

How can such a rich man be so needy?

Because he's human? How does being rich eliminate that? Kind of an odd juxtaposition. And if the worst thing Paul's done in the name of neediness is try to set the record straight, I think he's okay.

Anyway, it's clear we part ways on basic perception of his actions: you see the statement as "passive-aggressive credit hoarding." I see it was matter-of-factly. You see his actions as needy. I see them as forward-thinking and smart. So I think we'll have to agree to disagree. It's just not a big deal to me.

parlance

Beware of sadness. It can hit you. It can hurt you. Make you sore and what is more, that is not what you are here for. - George

Check out my fan video for Paul's song "Appreciate" at YouTube and Vimeo.

31 July 2013
6.58pm
vonbontee
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I think the "overall perception of him being a lightweight" is a view held by a minority who won't be convinced otherwise no matter how much scorekeeping Paul does. And yes, that would indeed be bothersome; but, y'know, deal with it! Haters gonna hate, etc.

Why are you supposing that he doesn't realize that there are folks like us? Of course he knows.

My mistake - the sentence got too long and convoluted and I didn't finish the thought properly! I meant to say folks like us who are aware of the fact AND are irritated by the constant reminders of it. (Which admittedly aren't intended for us.)

How does being rich eliminate that?

How does being rich AND loved and respected by a billion fans not eliminate that? It's like the guy has a billion fans and is wondering "Why not 1.1 billion?" Or alternately "How come they only love me 95%, why not 100%?" The idea of a person needing that much attention is an alien concept to me, and it rankles.

Anyways, I agree on the agree-to-disagree! :D Peace & love etc.

I just want to play. I’d like to think I could work opposite Sinatra, B.B. King, the Beatles, or a polka band... - Jazz musician Rahsaan Roland Kirk, 1967
1 August 2013
6.24pm
acmac
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vonbontee said
How does being rich AND loved and respected by a billion fans not eliminate that? It's like the guy has a billion fans and is wondering "Why not 1.1 billion?" Or alternately "How come they only love me 95%, why not 100%?" The idea of a person needing that much attention is an alien concept to me, and it rankles.

Well, first of all I think you're conflating two separate issues. There's public popularity, and then there's the accuracy of the historical record. Paul is concerned with both, and he has a right to be.

But my answer to the question of how Paul can possibly be insecure at this point is simply that Paul is messed up. He lives with the irrational fear that everything he has could be snatched away from him at any moment -- he has literally said that there's always a worry at the back of his mind that someday he will lose it all and end up a bum on the street. It seems INSANE but it makes perfect psychological sense, considering his childhood, personal life, and the extreme fame he has experienced. All the evidence we have suggests fame does not equal happiness or security, and Paul has experienced fame to greater extremes and for a longer period than anyone else I can think of. Being called a god one day and being told you don't deserve to live by the Village Voice the next does not do wonders for one's mental health.

There seems to be a strange reluctance in Beatle fandom/scholarship at large to put Paul into proper psychological perspective, especially in contradistinction to John. John was an abusive dick? Well, his mom died! Paul is defensive about his artistic legacy? Yeah, he just sucks like that!

That Paul is as functional and productive and as happy in his relationships as he is -- that is probably his most astonishing achievement. 

1 August 2013
6.44pm
parlance
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^^ All really well said. Welcome to the forum.

parlance

Beware of sadness. It can hit you. It can hurt you. Make you sore and what is more, that is not what you are here for. - George

Check out my fan video for Paul's song "Appreciate" at YouTube and Vimeo.

1 August 2013
7.36pm
acmac
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Thanks, parlance!

I hasten to add that it grates on my nerves too when Paul gets overly defensive; I wish he wouldn't, I wish he could just chill. But I do sympathize with him. Many people* are quick to dismiss Paul's nerve-grating qualities (of which there are not a few) as pure selfish, attention-hungry egotism, but I don't see that at all. I've known people like that; Paul doesn't fit the profile.

*Not you, vonbontree! In fact most of what I've said is not directed at your opinions specifically, though we may disagree here and there. Also your icon is tres rad. ^_^

1 August 2013
7.42pm
vonbontee
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acmac said

vonbontee said
How does being rich AND loved and respected by a billion fans not eliminate that? It's like the guy has a billion fans and is wondering "Why not 1.1 billion?" Or alternately "How come they only love me 95%, why not 100%?" The idea of a person needing that much attention is an alien concept to me, and it rankles.

.

But my answer to the question of how Paul can possibly be insecure at this point is simply that Paul is messed up. He lives with the irrational fear that everything he has could be snatched away from him at any moment -- he has literally said that there's always a worry at the back of his mind that someday he will lose it all and end up a bum on the street

Interesting stuff! That certainly adds a new dimension to the man's psychological makeup.

I just want to play. I’d like to think I could work opposite Sinatra, B.B. King, the Beatles, or a polka band... - Jazz musician Rahsaan Roland Kirk, 1967
7 August 2013
11.23pm
Matte H
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And now, when Paul has clearified the credits for Mr. Kite, it's time for If I Fell... Paul McCartney, Q Magazine, May 2013:

I was a big fan of the preamble in my early days, which you find in lots of '50s songs. A first verse that goes: 'I was living in Kentucky when I diddiddid and I dud-dud-dud, and then I said...' [breathes in deeply]... then you break into the bit of the song you want everyone to know. One song I wrote a little after Please Please Me was my best attempt at a preamble: If I Fell. [Sings] 'If I fell in love with you, would you promise to be truuue...' Then after the line, 'just holding hands', the song properly gets going. [Raises voice] That's it, everyone!

So Paul did not merely co-write this one with John, as he stated in in Many Years From Now, apparently he was the SOLE composer of it.  Seriously, what's this guys problem? By the time Macca dies, he will have convinced himself that he wrote every single Beatles song all by himself. a-hard-days-night-paul-10

8 August 2013
1.49am
meanmistermustard
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Matte H said
And now, when Paul has clearified the credits for Mr. Kite, it's time for If I Fell... Paul McCartney, Q Magazine, May 2013:

I was a big fan of the preamble in my early days, which you find in lots of '50s songs. A first verse that goes: 'I was living in Kentucky when I diddiddid and I dud-dud-dud, and then I said...' [breathes in deeply]... then you break into the bit of the song you want everyone to know. One song I wrote a little after Please Please Me was my best attempt at a preamble: If I Fell. [Sings] 'If I fell in love with you, would you promise to be truuue...' Then after the line, 'just holding hands', the song properly gets going. [Raises voice] That's it, everyone!

So Paul did not merely co-write this one with John, as he stated in in Many Years From Now, apparently HE was the sole composer of it. Seriously,what's this guys problem? By the time Macca dies, he will have convinced himself the he wrote every single Beatles song all by himself. a-hard-days-night-paul-10

I'll give Paul a Mr Kite co-write but he can go fish if he's claiming he wrote If I Fell. Paul, if you ever read this, please shut up about what you did or didn't write. Its getting to the point of being more annoying than Pete Best claiming he was the greatest drummer in Liverpool despite everyone else there at the time saying it was Ringo.

Don’t make your love suffer insecurities, trade the baggage of self to set another one free. ('Paper Skin' - Kendall Payne)
8 August 2013
3.06am
Ron Nasty
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I'm waiting for Paul to inform the world about how he wrote The Ballad Of John And Yoko to bridge the gap between himself and the man he occasionally allowed to contribute to his songs!

"I only said we were bigger than Rod... and now there's all this!" Ron Nasty
8 August 2013
5.59am
Von Bontee
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Paul: "Yeah, it was me who suggested that John change a few words to 'In My Life', to make them more about his life, y'know? Oh, and to get him to change the title from 'In Paul's Life', 'cos it seemed a bit of a faggy title, eh what? (sniggers)"

One day, a tape-op got a tape on backwards, he went to play it, and it was all "Neeeradno-undowarrroom" and it was "Wow! Sounds Indian!" -- Paul McCartney
8 August 2013
3.21pm
meanmistermustard
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Its kind of sad really that Paul feels the need to do this and is going to such extremes as his legacy is assured. I hate to talk about Paul not being with us it but I truly believe that when Paul does leave here the appreciation for the wealth and strength of everything he has done will soar. 

I do hope we don't get to the point where Paul does start to say he was the Beatles in the studio.

Don’t make your love suffer insecurities, trade the baggage of self to set another one free. ('Paper Skin' - Kendall Payne)
8 August 2013
6.38pm
parlance
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I think you guys are reading way too much into "I wrote." He likely meant to infer "I cowrote." John committed the same sin of omission - sometimes deliberately - at least take them equally to task for it.

parlance

Beware of sadness. It can hit you. It can hurt you. Make you sore and what is more, that is not what you are here for. - George

Check out my fan video for Paul's song "Appreciate" at YouTube and Vimeo.

8 August 2013
7.16pm
DrBeatle
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And in many cases, Paul has been proven right, ie In My Life...John claimed he wrote the whole thing and Paul only wrote the middle 8, Paul claimed John wrote the lyrics and he wrote all of the music, and most who have studied the song and researched it conclude that Paul's account is correct.

"I know you, you know me; one thing I can tell you is you got to be free!"

 

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8 August 2013
7.17pm
Ron Nasty
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It's a different situation. There is not a single Lennon comment on the songwriting that Paul was unable to challenge at the time they were made. There are many McCartney claims that have only been made since John's murder that disagree to varying degrees with what he said before John's death. I have a great deal of love and affection for Paul. He is one of three people who rewrote the rulebook so far as what a song could be (himself, John, and Bob Dylan). However, he is a great publicist - something that has always been acknowledged, and John is no longer around to challenge Paul's statements. To not question some of those statements would be an act of disrespect to both Paul and John.

However much we can look a statement like the above on If I Fell and go, "Well, what I think Paul meant to say..." because of our interest in, and knowledge of, the subject, the majority of the people reading that quote with either a passing knowledge or none at all, would read it as Paul McCartney saying he wrote If I Fell.

Paul is clever enough to know better. All he would have had to do was say "we wrote" instead of "I wrote".

EDIT: I do not believe that none of the music for In My Life came from John. I think John's statement is closer to the truth, and I have also read Paul quotes where he claims much of the lyric.

"I only said we were bigger than Rod... and now there's all this!" Ron Nasty
8 August 2013
7.26pm
parlance
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Or maybe the statement doesn't warrant being picked over with a fine tooth comb, or that sinister motivations have to be assigned to the things he says. Most ppl are aware that Lennon-McCartney was a team.

John was good at PR too, some say much better.

parlance

Beware of sadness. It can hit you. It can hurt you. Make you sore and what is more, that is not what you are here for. - George

Check out my fan video for Paul's song "Appreciate" at YouTube and Vimeo.

8 August 2013
7.28pm
acmac
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Matte H said

I was a big fan of the preamble in my early days, which you find in lots of '50s songs. A first verse that goes: 'I was living in Kentucky when I diddiddid and I dud-dud-dud, and then I said...' [breathes in deeply]... then you break into the bit of the song you want everyone to know. One song I wrote a little after Please Please Me was my best attempt at a preamble: If I Fell. [Sings] 'If I fell in love with you, would you promise to be truuue...' Then after the line, 'just holding hands', the song properly gets going. [Raises voice] That's it, everyone!

So Paul did not merely co-write this one with John, as he stated in in Many Years From Now, apparently he was the SOLE composer of it.  Seriously, what's this guys problem? By the time Macca dies, he will have convinced himself the he wrote every single Beatles song all by himself. a-hard-days-night-paul-10

Now, that's a quote I can get behind questioning/criticizing. He does seem to be taking sole credit for the preamble (which could be true, though there is an early demo of John singing it alone). I don't see that he's taking sole credit for the entire song; he says "I wrote," but as parlance says, he may have felt it was understood to be a John-skewed collaboration, since that's what he's always said before.

8 August 2013
7.40pm
Ron Nasty
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parlance said
Or maybe the statement doesn't warrant being picked over with a fine tooth team, or that sinister motivations have to be assigned to the things he says. Most ppl are aware that Lennon-McCartney was a team.

John was good at PR too, some say much better.

parlance

No. Most Beatles fans are aware. The casual fan with little or no knowledge, and I would guess that accounts for well over half of Q's readership would have no idea about who wrote what. (By the way, and I hate to pick up on grammar, always try to avoid it, but shouldn't that be "fine tooth comb"?)

 

"I only said we were bigger than Rod... and now there's all this!" Ron Nasty
8 August 2013
7.53pm
vonbontee
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Thinking she meant to suggest a team of us with fine tooth combs, all combing.

I just want to play. I’d like to think I could work opposite Sinatra, B.B. King, the Beatles, or a polka band... - Jazz musician Rahsaan Roland Kirk, 1967
8 August 2013
8.26pm
parlance
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Actually, no, mja, I think the casual fan seeing "Lennon-McCartney" assumes they wrote all the songs together. I certainly did at one point.

As for the typo, if you hate to pick up on grammar, then don't. It doesn't become you.

parlance

Beware of sadness. It can hit you. It can hurt you. Make you sore and what is more, that is not what you are here for. - George

Check out my fan video for Paul's song "Appreciate" at YouTube and Vimeo.

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