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11.15am
12 April 2012
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I think every solo album paul ever did is better than at least the first five beatles albums
12.43pm
12 March 2010
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GeorgeTSimpson said
I think every solo album paul ever did is better than at least the first five beatles albums
Hm, you seem to enjoy having a little provocative approach, do you? (see Revolver comment).
Nothing wrong with thinking different thoughts, as long as you don't do it for the sake of provocation.
As some of you may have notived, I'm a bit of a Paul fan myself, and I defended his solo output lots of times. And I do think there are hardly any solo albums being a complete disappointment, there are always some nuggets. And most of his albums are really good or even great anyway.
But how can you consider McCartney, McCartney II, Wings at the speed of sound, Red rose speedway, Give my regards to Broad Street, Wings wild life – to name the ones I personally consider to be his weakest – being better than
Please please me
With the Beatles
A freaking hard day's night
Beatles for sale
Help!
???
and you were saying "at least", so what's next??
With the Beatles and Beatles for sale are for many the weakest Beatles albums, but A hard days night and Help and even Please please me are milestones.
Please elaborate, otherwise I've got a hard time taking your post seriously.
12.48pm
1 May 2011
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What is it you have against the first five albums George? There are some incredible gems within those 5 albums such as No Reply, Youre Going To Lose That Girl, I Saw Her Standing There, It Wont Be Long, If I Fell, Im A Loser, Its Only Love, What Youre Doing, And I Love Her, Any Time At All, All Ive Got To Do, You Really Got A Hold On Me, I'll Follow The Sun, I've Just Seen A Face, Anna (Go To Him), There's A Place, Im A Loser… I could go on.
I dont think they are the best beatle albums but by no means are they awful.
4.14pm
16 August 2012
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I'll jump in here with my thoughts on George's solo work…
I think that while he had a pent-up pile of songs by 1970, the pickings get very slim shortly after that.
While there are a few gems scattered throughout his catalogue, George's post ATMP works quickly devolve into somewhat synthetic-sounding collections of pleasant nice-guy songs.
Cloud Nine was a wonderful comeback, but I'm not sure if I consider it more of a Jeff Lynne/pre-Wilburys thing rather than an organic career resurgence.
'Brainwashed' was a fine album to close out on, though. He seemed to have found his voice again.
4.51pm
26 July 2011
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In terms of commercial impact, there's no doubt Paul McCartney's post-Beatles career was tremendously successful, and he produced a number of memorable songs during that period. But somehow, they never really had the impact of The Beatles. Then again, how do you follow up an act like that? Paul Simon ran into the same problem when his first solo songs (very simple in their production) were compared with the landmark Simon & Garfunkel stuff he did in the 1960's.
You listen to a tune like "Silly Love Songs" and it's exactly what it sounds like -- it's Paul saying "look, I'm not trying to be deep, I'm just trying to say what's on my mind -- and that's I'm in love with my wife and the world needs more of this kind of feeling". And more power to him for releasing it. It's a good little tune that you can dance to and sing along to. Nothing more… and it doesn't try to be. It doesn't have the gut impact of "Hey Jude" or "Yesterday" -- or John's "Imagine" -- and it's not meant to. In fact, in my opinion, of all of Paul's solo releases, only "Maybe I'm Amazed" really has that Beatle magic.
Likewise, John's post-Beatle output had some real high points, like "Instant Karma", "Woman", and several other songs -- but the only song that really had the impact of a Beatles tune was "Imagine". That song probably stands alongside any Beatles release in terms of its effect on listeners. But John didn't have the same commercial ear as Paul, and that was becoming apparent in the latter days of The Beatles, which is why Paul began to dominate the singles' market from 1967 onward.
In my opinion, the reason George had such enormous success with ALL THINGS MUST PASS is that the album had the feel of a Beatles record, with its lavish production and just the overall feel of the record. Subsequent releases, like LIVING IN THE MATERIAL WORLD, were much simpler records, in terms of their production and styling, and that's part of why they didn't have the same impact. Plus George got AWFULLY preachy.
And then there's Ringo, who actually got off to a very fast start with two immediate hit singles ("It Don't Come Easy" and "Back Off Boogaloo") and a really enjoyable album (RINGO) which had a Beatly feel to it (no doubt because all three ex-Fabs contributed songs and performed on those songs). His later releases, especially when he descended into that disco crap of the mid-1970's, were pretty bad.
5.27pm
1 December 2009
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Another major factor in the relative inferiority of the solo albums: no George Martin.
5.58pm
12 March 2010
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vonbontee said
Another major factor in the relative inferiority of the solo albums: no George Martin.
Ram (Uncle Albert, Long haired Lady)
Live and let die
Tug of war album
Pipes of peace album
Give my regards to Broad Street
Flowers in the dirt (Put it there)
Flaming pie (Somedays, Beautiful night)
Teaming up with Martin again was key to the success of Live and let die and Tug of war, and already the Uncle Albert/Admiral Halsey single.
Ram is still very well produced, as is Band on the run.
Venus and Mars could have been even better with Martin's production, no doubt.
Don't forget, as pointed out:
He left the grand production behind him on purpose, at least at the beginning.
7.04pm
1 December 2009
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So he produced 3 McCartney tracks throughout the entirety of the 1970s, big deal. We were referring to ALL of the Beatles' solo careers. And if "Teaming up with Martin was the key to the success of…" etc., aren't you kind of illustrating my point?
"Ram" and "Band on the Run" are excellent productions indeed. But maybe George Martin might've taken Paul aside while recording "Wild Life" and "Red Rose Speedway" to inform that the material was generally subpar.
(I still haven't heard "Tug of War", but I look forward to doing so someday!)
7.57pm
1 May 2011
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Tug Of War is overall a very good album but Ebony and Ivory has aged very badly, its biggest draw probably being Here Today but there are some other fantastic songs eg The Pound Is Sinking, Ballroom Dancing & Wanderlust.
8.01pm
10 August 2011
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Vonbontee said, "I still haven't heard "Tug of War"
What a coinkidink. I exercised to it this very morning. Hadn't heard the album from beginning to end in a long while.
Rolling Stone (everyone's favorite magazine here on the Forum) gave it 5 stars when it came out ("masterpiece").
I thought it deserved 4 stars, and that's still what I think.
Stevie Wonder co-wrote one of the songs (not one of the better ones IMO).
I thought he'd co-written "Ebony and Ivory" but he just co-sings.
"Ballroom Dancing" is a dorky song but with tremendous production, so in the end it's quite listenable. (The whole album features great production.)
"The pound is sinking" is interesting because it's a series of musical and lyrical non-sequiturs. I think McC quite frequently has bits of songs he doesn't know what to do with, so he stitches them together (or attaches them to someone else's song fragment a la "Day in the Life" "We Can Work It Out" "Abbey Road Medley), sometimes to great effect, sometimes not.
"Wanderlust" is similar to "Dear Boy": different melodies that all come together at the end. I get a kick out of that.
"Get It" with Carl Perkins is enjoyable.
"Here Today" (for Lennon) is a standout.
"Take It Away" "Somebody Who Cares" "Dress Me Up as a Robber" are also keepers.
The title song has some good parts but doesn't come together.
All worth a listen.
9.20pm
26 March 2012
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Into the Sky with Diamonds said
"The pound is sinking" is interesting because it's a series of musical and lyrical non-sequiturs. I think McC quite frequently has bits of songs he doesn't know what to do with, so he stitches them together (or attaches them to someone else's song fragment a la "Day in the Life" "We Can Work It Out" "Abbey Road Medley), sometimes to great effect, sometimes not.
This is very true- a lot of his songs don't seem medley-based, or like unrelated segments stitched together, but when you think about it they really are. Band on the Run, Picasso's Last Words, Live and Let Die, Back Seat of My Car, Uncle Albert (many of the songs on Ram in fact), the Speedway medley, Treat Her Gently/Lonely Old People, Momma Miss America, the Pound is Sinking as you said, and countless songs with the Beatles. I think he gets little licks or segments in his head which he plays about with and then affixes them as he sees fit, maybe changing the lyrics to keep a consistent theme.
9.36pm
1 December 2009
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Yeah, even things like "You Never Give Me Your Money" is a little medley unto itself. When it works, it's good; when it's bad, it's like that "Speedway" medley (I don't like it; you're free to disagree)
9.51pm
12 April 2012
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Paulsbass, I don't like the early beatles rock'n'roll songs so I prefer many of paul's solo songs, but, definitely not all (sorry for writing that). I actually love help!, I don't know why I wrote five albums, I meant four
11.18pm
26 March 2012
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vonbontee said
Yeah, even things like "You Never Give Me Your Money" is a little medley unto itself. When it works, it's good; when it's bad, it's like that "Speedway" medley (I don't like it; you're free to disagree)
Have to disagree with you there, my friend. Although I'll admit sections are stronger than others (the lyrics to "Hold Me Tight" are abysmally lazy). The "Hands of Love" section is the best bit.
11.21pm
1 December 2009
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True, if you can get past "Hold Me Tight" !
11.51pm
12 March 2010
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vonbontee said
So he produced 3 McCartney tracks throughout the entirety of the 1970s, big deal. We were referring to ALL of the Beatles' solo careers. And if "Teaming up with Martin was the key to the success of…" etc., aren't you kind of illustrating my point?"Ram" and "Band on the Run" are excellent productions indeed. But maybe George Martin might've taken Paul aside while recording "Wild Life" and "Red Rose Speedway" to inform that the material was generally subpar.
(I still haven't heard "Tug of War", but I look forward to doing so someday!)
Who said I wanted or tried to prove you wrong??
I just wanted to point out that GM wasn't gone forever – and when he appeared he usually helped Paul a lot (let's pretend Broad Street didn't happen…).
Tug of war is definitely in Paul's top 5, maybe top 3 albums.
12.05am
1 December 2009
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OK, I'm sorry, Paulsbass – it's just that when you quote somebody's post like that, I usually assume you're arguing with them! I misunderstood you. Apologies.
Like I say, I look forward to hearing "Tug of War" (followed by "Flaming Pie" and "Back to the Egg" and after that, who knows?) in the indefinite future!
12.32am
26 March 2012
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vonbontee said
OK, I'm sorry, Paulsbass – it's just that when you quote somebody's post like that, I usually assume you're arguing with them! I misunderstood you. Apologies.Like I say, I look forward to hearing "Tug of War" (followed by "Flaming Pie" and "Back to the Egg" and after that, who knows?) in the indefinite future!
I'd give Back to the Egg a miss personally, it has some gems (and it's better than London Town- yuck!) but I agree with some people that it's the moment where Paul fell to dinosaurism and became somewhat less relevant.
12.56am
1 May 2011
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Back To The Egg hasnt aged well in my opinion, sounding a little outdated (it might sound better when we get the remaster in 2034 since Pauls project is taking decades to be completed) - i havent played complete for a long time. London Town has some good parts but the opening few tracks kill the album, they are up there with the crappest Macca works, the song London Town is such a bore with dreadful lyrics.
1.03am
26 March 2012
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meanmistermustard said
Back To The Egg hasnt aged well in my opinion, sounding a little outdated (it might sound better when we get the remaster in 2034 since Pauls project is taking decades to be completed) - i havent played complete for a long time. London Town has some good parts but the opening few tracks kill the album, they are up there with the crappest Macca works, the song London Town is such a bore with dreadful lyrics.
I really can't bear London Town, it's just so bland and insipid, really lacking in good songs, and after the crackle which Jimmy McCulloch and Joe English brought to '75, '76 and '77 everyone just sounds bored. Best song on it is the really underappreciated "Don't Let It Bring You Down."
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