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Yoko Ono's legal battles for John Lennon's name and legacy
20 July 2011
8.56pm
mr. Sun king coming together
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The Walrus said:

The ordering of Lennon/McCartney never seemed to be important. Please Please Me had all the originals credited to McCartney/Lennon, I don't believe Lennon batted an eyelid when Paul reversed the credit while he was alive either.

He didn't. That's correct, but changing it after the other guy is dead for 15 years is scummy.

As if it matters how a man falls down.'

'When the fall's all that's left, it matters a great deal.

21 July 2011
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kelicopter
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Just thought I'd add a quote from the John Lennon 1980 Playboy interview:

"Paul and I made a deal when we were 15. There was never a legal deal between us, just a deal we made when we decided to write together that we put both our names on it, no matter what."

 

It is bad that Lennon/McCartney songs were being credited to just Lennon, especially when it was songs like Yesterday and Hey Jude. And I do think that part of the reason that Yoko disagreed was because of royalties, etc. But Sun King is absolutely right, they had a deal throughout the whole of John's life; it's awful to try and back out of it after his death. And if it bothered Paul that much, why did he not make an issue of it until 1995?

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"When I cannot sing my heart, I can only speak my mind."
21 July 2011
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The Walrus
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"Put both our names on it" doesn't mean "put it to Lennon/McCartney". "McCartney/Lennon" (as per Please Please Me) would still have stuck to their agreement.

"Junk" and "Teddy Boy" were ultimately credited to McCartney alone, even though they were recorded and eventually released as Beatles songs, as were several songs John wrote while the Beatles still existed (including Cold Turkey and, eventually, Give Peace A Chance). "Come And Get It" was written in the Abbey Road sessions and released that December, but only credited to Paul. As far as I know, John didn't object to not being credited at all on those three songs, nor Paul on Cold Turkey, or when his credit for Give Peace A Chance was taken away. I genuinely don't think there's any reason to think John would have protested reversing the credit on songs like "Blackbird" that he contributed nothing to. It isn't like Paul's gone and scribbled out the "Lennon" next to "All You Need Is Love" or "Come Together".

And I neeeeeeeeed her all the time
21 July 2011
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mr. Sun king coming together
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When Paul gave songs away (ala Come And Get It), he would often not credit Lennon. But HE'S CHANGING IT AFTER JOHN'S DEAD. I wouldn't have cared if he would have rung John and said, "Look, I'm doing some lyrics in a book, and I'm including Yesterday. Can it be McCartney/Lennon [or Paul McCartney and John Lennon. Whichever]?" But it's after his death. And also, Paul changed the credits on all 19 Beatles songs on Back In The US/Back In The World because of Give Peace A Chance.

As if it matters how a man falls down.'

'When the fall's all that's left, it matters a great deal.

21 July 2011
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MeanMrsMustard
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mr. Sun king coming together said:

He didn't. That's correct, but changing it after the other guy is dead for 15 years is scummy.

I don't think it really matters if someone is dead when you're deciding if something is scummy. If something is inherently scummy, it doesn't matter. If something is not scummy, it doesn't matter.

If I seem to act unkind, it's only me, it's not my mind that is confusing things.

21 July 2011
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kelicopter
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The Walrus said:

"Put both our names on it" doesn't mean "put it to Lennon/McCartney". "McCartney/Lennon" (as per Please Please Me) would still have stuck to their agreement.

 

True, and I think Yoko was selfish by not agreeing to McCartney/Lennon.

My point is that in the interview Paul said "That should really say, 'Written by Paul McCartney.' Or at the very worst, 'Written by Paul McCartney and John Lennon.'"

It's almost saying that if Paul got his own way, he'd get rid of the whole of John's credit; but seeing as he can't, he'll settle for front billing. 

 

*9*

"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans."
"When I cannot sing my heart, I can only speak my mind."
21 July 2011
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mr. Sun king coming together
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MeanMrsMustard said:

mr. Sun king coming together said:

He didn't. That's correct, but changing it after the other guy is dead for 15 years is scummy.

I don't think it really matters if someone is dead when you're deciding if something is scummy. If something is inherently scummy, it doesn't matter. If something is not scummy, it doesn't matter.

Here you are right. But not entirely. Let's use Winston Churchill as an example. If someone were to have said, "Winston Churchill screwed over the British people" while he was alive, you have a situation were Churchill can respond. Not scummy. But to say the same thing when Churchill can't respond to the allegations, you are attempting to rewrite history. As Paul is doing here. Rewriting history when the other player/players aren't alive is scummy. You aren't giving the other players in the story a chance to fairly give their side of things.

As if it matters how a man falls down.'

'When the fall's all that's left, it matters a great deal.

21 July 2011
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MeanMrsMustard
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Well, with the Winston Churchill thing, you've got probably millions of people who are prepared to defend Churchill, and you've probably got quite a few people (advisors, etc.) who are able to give the closest thing possible to Churchill's side. 

With the John thing, you've got Yoko. And if John "never batted an eye" when he was alive, I think that it's OK to let Paul have his fun. 

Maybe it's just because I get irritated when people treat John like some saint just because he's dead. I don't think how people speak of someone should depend on whether they're breathing. 

If I seem to act unkind, it's only me, it's not my mind that is confusing things.

21 July 2011
5.06pm
mr. Sun king coming together
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Do you not deny that Paul is attempting (or was) to rewrite history, even though the other principle player (a-hard-days-night-john-1) is no longer here?

Maybe it's just because I get irritated when people treat John like some saint just because he's dead. I don't think how people speak of someone should depend on whether they're breathing. 
 

It shouldn't. But again, there are some things that shouldn't be said without having the other person to respond.

As if it matters how a man falls down.'

'When the fall's all that's left, it matters a great deal.

21 July 2011
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MeanMrsMustard
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Well, I don't think Paul was attempting to rewrite history. And I don't think that they should be seen as "players" as though they were opposing each other, because that makes it sound like John vehemently fought for the credit to stay "Lennon-McCartney" and nothing else until the day he died, and Paul waltzed right over that when John was dead. 

I also don't see why Paul waited until 1995. Maybe he had been trying to let it go, but something pushed him over the edge. (Like that piano book.) Maybe he wanted to say something because of Anthology. Either way, I don't think that Paul wanting to credit "Yesterday," "Blackbird," "Hey Jude" and all the rest to "McCartney" or "McCartney-Lennon" makes him a douche, as he's already done plenty of douche-y things.  

If I seem to act unkind, it's only me, it's not my mind that is confusing things.

21 July 2011
5.19pm
Joe
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mr. Sun king coming together said:

Joe said:

He reversed the billing (McCartney-Lennon) on Wings Over America back in 1976, and the version of The Long And Winding Road was credited to McCartney only.

Nope. I have an original vinyl which credits it as McCartney/Lennon.

Oh, thanks for that. I had some incorrect info.

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21 July 2011
5.24pm
mr. Sun king coming together
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Joe said:

mr. Sun king coming together said:

Joe said:

He reversed the billing (McCartney-Lennon) on Wings Over America back in 1976, and the version of The Long And Winding Road was credited to McCartney only.

Nope. I have an original vinyl which credits it as McCartney/Lennon.

Oh, thanks for that. I had some incorrect info.

No problem. Wings Over America was my first vinyl.

As if it matters how a man falls down.'

'When the fall's all that's left, it matters a great deal.

21 July 2011
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Joe
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Would you mind double-checking for me?

From what I can tell in the image above, it says "McCartney except * McCartney-Lennon", and the only asterisk is next to Lady Madonna.

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21 July 2011
5.44pm
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Joe said:

From what I can tell in the image above, it says "McCartney except * McCartney-Lennon", and the only asterisk is next to Lady Madonna.

I just looked again. At least on this side of the Atlantic, it looked this this (with the publishing after the name):

  1. Maybe I'm Amazed
  2. Call Me Back Again
  3. Lady Madonna
  4. The Long And Winding Road
  5. Live and Let Die
  1. McCartney
  2. McCartney
  3. P. McCartney/J. Lennon
  4. P. McCartney/J. Lennon
  5. McCartney

As if it matters how a man falls down.'

'When the fall's all that's left, it matters a great deal.

21 July 2011
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Joe
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Thanks. I know there were quite a few differences with label designs in different countries - some collectors go crazy tracking down the myriad variations. I presume the missing asterisk on the British (?) one was an accidental omission.

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21 July 2011
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a-hard-days-night-ringo-8I have to presume that they were looking to save time and money and they made a mistake.

As if it matters how a man falls down.'

'When the fall's all that's left, it matters a great deal.

22 July 2011
7.58am
McLennonSon
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a-hard-days-night-ringo-8=blue-meanie

My Music Blog. One and one don't make two One and one make one.
17 August 2011
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I was looking in the phonebook, and I came across a Julia Lennon. Wierrrd.a-hard-days-night-ringo-7

-LOVE is all you need heart
17 August 2011
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TheTaxmansGirl said:

I was looking in the phonebook, and I came across a Julia Lennon. Wierrrd.a-hard-days-night-ringo-7

As soon as Yoko finds out there will be a writ coming thru the ladys letter box.  

Don’t make your love suffer insecurities, trade the baggage of self to set another one free. ('Paper Skin' - Kendall Payne)
18 August 2011
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TheTaxmansGirl
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Next, Yoko will be suing the Lennon Sisters. Kathy, Peggy, and I forget the other girl's name.

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