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Why did John Lennon never named Sir?
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22 January 2012
5.03pm
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Another One
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Hi,

Is anybody to say ...

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22 January 2012
7.21pm
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mithveaen
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Well there are many reasons IMHO.

 

1. He returned his MBE to the Queen.

2. He wanted to become an American Citizen.

3. He was a "Working Class Hero". Not precisely material for a knighthood.

4. I dunno but in those days, 70s and 80s it was weird to think that a rock star could become a Sir. Nowadays it's pretty common.

Here comes the sun….. Scoobie-doobie…… Something in the way she moves…..attracts me like a cauliflower… Bop. Bop, cat bop. Go, Johnny, Go. Beware of Darkness…  I believe in SH...
22 January 2012
7.36pm
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meanmistermustard
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John also had been done for possession of drugs and openly discussed his drug taking. Even tho many others had also done and discussed their drug taking it may have played a part. And even if he was i think he would have rejected it anyway. I dont think he wanted his MBE when the beatles got it in 1965.

Don’t make your love suffer insecurities, trade the baggage of self to set another one free. ('Paper Skin' - Kendall Payne)
24 January 2012
2.18am
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Little Piggy Dragonfly
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Mostly because I don't think they do that for dead people. Paul wasn't knighted until 1997.

EDIT: I mean 1996

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24 January 2012
2.41am
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meanmistermustard
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Im sure there have posthumous awards to people (but not 100%).

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24 January 2012
3.12am
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Little Piggy Dragonfly
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I don't think so, I asked my teacher about that last year and he gave me an angry look and said yes, but I'm pretty sure it was meant as a no.

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24 January 2012
8.42am
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johnnymain
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Remember that it's only in the last 20 years or so that the Queen has started knighting pop and rock stars. 

 

Maybe if John was still alive now, he would have got one when Paul did - afterall, Mick Jagger was no saint (when it came to drugs and scandals) and he was knighted.  I think it's too much for the Queen to give him a posthumous award - wouldn't George deserve one too?  Ringo has gone on record to say that he wouldn't take anything less than a peerage. 

"Never guess. Unless you have to. There's enough uncertainty in the universe as it is."

 

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24 January 2012
4.34pm
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Von Bontee
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unknown said:

I don't think so, I asked my teacher about that last year and he gave me an angry look and said yes, but I'm pretty sure it was meant as a no.

Wow, your teacher sounds like an ass! Asking an honest question and getting attitude, for chrissakes.

One day, a tape-op got a tape on backwards, he went to play it, and it was all "Neeeradno-undowarrroom" and it was "Wow! Sounds Indian!" -- Paul McCartney
24 January 2012
8.46pm
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The Walrus
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mithveaen said:

Well there are many reasons IMHO.

3. He was a "Working Class Hero". Not precisely material for a knighthood.

It's probably what 90% of honours are given for. Lord Alan Sugar is a prime example.

I think sending back the MBE was a major hurdle, as was dying. Posthumous knighthoods are very rare (there has only been one (Sir Henry Cotton)- most honours are withdrawn if the recepient dies before officially being awarded them, and a quick Google brings up campaigns for Billy Wright, John Graham-Cumming, Brian Clough, Charles Darwin, Christopher Hitchens, Bob Paisley, Alan Turing, and... George Harrison) and it is very unlikely that an exception would be made for John so long after his death.

I also think John didn't help himself by supporting the IRA.

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24 January 2012
9.24pm
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meanmistermustard
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I really dont see John accepting the honour if he had of been nominated or was nowadays, Yoko would on his behalf without a shadow of a doubt tho.

Don’t make your love suffer insecurities, trade the baggage of self to set another one free. ('Paper Skin' - Kendall Payne)
25 January 2012
2.49am
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mr. Sun king coming together
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Because there was no vote greedy bum of a politician willing to offer an American living, monarchy embarrassing (MBE thing), Brit to get an award. And anyways, why extend an honour that Lennon wouldn't have accepted? He didn't deserve it. Nor did Harrison, unless bankrolling Monty Python counts as acting in the National Interest.

As if it matters how a man falls down.'

'When the fall's all that's left, it matters a great deal.

25 January 2012
3.38am
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mithveaen
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mr. Sun king coming together said:

 Nor did Harrison, unless bankrolling Monty Python counts as acting in the National Interest.

That's sooo true. a-hard-days-night-george-8

Here comes the sun….. Scoobie-doobie…… Something in the way she moves…..attracts me like a cauliflower… Bop. Bop, cat bop. Go, Johnny, Go. Beware of Darkness…  I believe in SH...
26 January 2012
3.57am
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That John had previously returned his MBE earlier pretty much excluded him from that title. It's just a matter of decorum, that's all, I think. When they choose someone for this, they typically send out a letter that basically says "The Queen wishes to bestow this great honor on you. Are you willing to accept it, or will you turn it down and make a big fuss to embarrass Her Majesty? Because we'd like to know ahead of time, in that is the case." Seriously. They're very touchy about this. Hugh Laurie talked about this once, about why he accepted his own OBE. He said if you turn it down, they won't bother you ever again, because they hate being embarrassed like that. Laurie said that while it didn't mean that much to him, his son told him that there was no reason to be a jerk by turning it down. So Laurie accepted it.

 

It just sounds like it's a bigger deal for the monarchy if you turn it down (or return it) than actually accepting it. Like I said, it's probably just decorum. Has little to do with whether they acknowledge John as an important British cultural figure or not.

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26 January 2012
2.12pm
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meanmistermustard
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A timely list has been released of people who refused to accept honours from the Queen. Among them are LS Lowry, who turned down 5 honours over the years including an OBE, CBE and knighthood; Roald Dahl (OBE); C.S. Lewis (CBE); and Alfred Hitchcock who declined a CBE in 1962 but accepted a knighthood in 1980. JBB Priestly declined a life peerage in 1965 and Order of Companions Honour in 1969.

BBC article also mentions John returning his MBE in 1969 along with John's note detailing the reasons for doing so:

 "Your Majesty, I am returning this in protest against Britain's involvement in the Nigeria-Biafra thing, against our support of America in Vietnam and against Cold Turkey slipping down the charts.

"With Love, John Lennon of Bag."

Don’t make your love suffer insecurities, trade the baggage of self to set another one free. ('Paper Skin' - Kendall Payne)
27 January 2012
9.58am
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johnnymain
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Rumour has it that David Bowie (not on the list above) also turned down a Knighthood.

"Never guess. Unless you have to. There's enough uncertainty in the universe as it is."

 

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27 January 2012
12.23pm
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mr. Sun king coming together
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As well, Churchill refused multiple times the honour of becoming a Duke, as he wanted his heirs the ability to run for national public office. God, there might actually be a British equivalent to Justin Trudeau. Scary.

As if it matters how a man falls down.'

'When the fall's all that's left, it matters a great deal.

27 January 2012
2.53pm
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vonbontee
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mr. Sun king coming together said:

 Nor did Harrison, unless bankrolling Monty Python counts as acting in the National Interest.

B-b-but it DOES! Or it should've, anyways. They couldn't've afforded to make Holy Grail without George Harrison (and Zeppelin and Pink Floyd too.)

I remember George saying 'Blimey, he's always talking about “Yesterday”, you'd think he was Beethoven or somebody' - Paul McCartney

27 January 2012
4.36pm
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Zig
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vonbontee said:

mr. Sun king coming together said:

 Nor did Harrison, unless bankrolling Monty Python counts as acting in the National Interest.

B-b-but it DOES! Or it should've, anyways. They couldn't've afforded to make Holy Grail without George Harrison (and Zeppelin and Pink Floyd too.)

I believe you meant Life Of Brian.

To the fountain of perpetual mirth, Let it roll for all its worth. Blessed is he whose fame does not outshine his truth. Every Little Thing you buy from Amazon or iTunes will help the Beatles Bible if you use these links: Amazon | iTunes
27 January 2012
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vonbontee
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Ah you're right, thank you! I fudged the facts a bit to give Led Zep a shout-out (Holy Grail's the one they helped fund), and because I like Grail more than Brian, no matter what the Pythons themselves think.

I remember George saying 'Blimey, he's always talking about “Yesterday”, you'd think he was Beethoven or somebody' - Paul McCartney

27 January 2012
8.41pm
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Zig
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vonbontee said:

Ah you're right, thank you! I fudged the facts a bit to give Led Zep a shout-out (Holy Grail's the one they helped fund), and because I like Grail more than Brian, no matter what the Pythons themselves think.

Your gonna laugh at this.

Your posts are always so dead on accurate, that when I thought to myself, "did he mean Life Of Brian?", I had to look it up because you had me doubting myself!

a-hard-days-night-ringo-13

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