What did John ever do for George? | John Lennon | Fab forum

Please consider registering
Guest

Log In Register

Register | Lost password?
Advanced Search

— Forum Scope —

  

— Match —

   

— Forum Options —

   

Wildcard usage:
*  matches any number of characters    %  matches exactly one character

Minimum search word length is 4 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters

What did John ever do for George?
8 March 2014
3.29am
Atlas
Paris Olympia
Forum Posts: 142
Member Since:
18 October 2013
Offline

John gave George the catchy 'Happy Just to Dance with You"…………. I'd like to think he contributed something memorable  to George's later work but I'm not aware of anything.

8 March 2014
5.21am
Mincer Ray
Gainesville, Florida
Casbah Coffee Club
Forum Posts: 25
Member Since:
3 February 2014
Offline

Well, John also (mostly) wrote Do You Want To Know A Secret.  He helped GH with the lyrics on Taxman and Piggies.  

"I believe that, as long as there is plenty, poverty is evil."  - Bobby Kennedy

8 March 2014
11.08am
Atlas
Paris Olympia
Forum Posts: 142
Member Since:
18 October 2013
Offline

I'd forgotten that………But I can understand  why John gave 'Do You Want To Know A Secret' away.

He made up for that with 'Happy Just to Dance With You' which is a great little song. Good to know about Piggies and Taxman, thanks. But is that it?

8 March 2014
1.55pm
IveJustSeenAFaceo
Somewhere other than where you are.
Apple rooftop
Forum Posts: 2616
Member Since:
1 November 2013
Offline

Atlas said
I'd forgotten that………But I can understand  why John gave 'Do You Want To Know A Secret' away.

He made up for that with 'Happy Just to Dance With You' which is a great little song. Good to know about Piggies and Taxman, thanks. But is that it?

I wouldn't qualify putting lyrics into Piggies as "helping." Helping with that song would've been saying "this is total crap throw it in the bin. Let's use this Not Guilty song instead.

(This signature brought to you by Winter. Coming for an abnormally long amount of time.)
8 March 2014
2.57pm
Wannadog40
I am here you are here we are here and we are all together
Apple rooftop
Forum Posts: 3541
Member Since:
1 November 2013
Offline

IveJustSeenAFaceo said

Atlas said
I'd forgotten that………But I can understand  why John gave 'Do You Want To Know A Secret' away.

He made up for that with 'Happy Just to Dance With You' which is a great little song. Good to know about Piggies and Taxman, thanks. But is that it?

I wouldn't qualify putting lyrics into Piggies as "helping." Helping with that song would've been saying "this is total crap throw it in the bin. Let's use this Not Guilty song instead.

Hey Piggies is an ok song not like an oscar song but it isn't the worst ever and John let George in his band I would count that as something

 

Never say never, cause it's never 'never'

If you are like a new thingy than introduction your self in the into place here

If you did that then you win!

8 March 2014
11.44pm
Atlas
Paris Olympia
Forum Posts: 142
Member Since:
18 October 2013
Offline

I suppose George was the lead guitarist and memorably contributed to most of John' and Paul's work in this way. Paul wrote some amazing bass and piano parts for a few of George's songs……even lead guitar. Ringo did his bit. John as rhythm guitar had less opportunity to help or have the help he did give noticed.

 

 

9 March 2014
9.46am
edwardr2000
A Beginning
Forum Posts: 10
Member Since:
18 February 2014
Offline

I think  George is quoted as saying John did not even participate in some of his later recordings.  John was miffed that he was not mentioned in George's book I Me Mine. But  George retorted by saying that he contributed more to John's songs that John did to his work. There is an interview clip on you tube I will try and find with Selina Scott that confirms this. 

9 March 2014
11.22am
Atlas
Paris Olympia
Forum Posts: 142
Member Since:
18 October 2013
Offline

An insightful interview. I think I'd better keep my impressions of it to myself.

10 March 2014
1.49pm
Billy Rhythm
Shea Stadium
Forum Posts: 431
Member Since:
22 December 2013
Offline

Focusing on there being some sort of wedge between John & George is just another case of the press playing up something not all that spectacular into something that it's not to sell a story, the same "wedge" came between John, Paul & Ringo as well, and it's called maturing as a human being.  Sure, George was a "junior member" when he first joined as a teenager and readily accepted while flourishing in that role.  He then emerged into his own, within a fantastic lifestyle that no one could have dreamed of when he first joined the group.  John showed George some support with coming into his own, it certainly wasn't a project of his to take George "under his wing", but he did whatever he could whenever he could to encourage him.  During the years of George's emergence as a composer in his own right, John was disinterested in The Beatles generally and I don't see any reason to single out his "disinterest" in George's work, unless of course it's to sell a book or TV Special.

 

The press love to dig up dirt wherever, even if there's only water present.  Take George's fabulous 'Within You, Without You' from 'Sgt. Pepper', some of the press actually believed at the time that the laughing upon the song's end was John & Paul laughing at George's work!?!  George was even asked about it and had to clarify that the piece "sounded so solemn" that he felt he needed to "break the mood" at the end.  Here's John's words from two separate interviews, one from just after 'Sgt. Pepper's release and another from shortly before his death:

 

JOHN 1967: "George has done a great indian one. We came along one night and he had about 400 indian fellas playing, and it was a great swinging event, as they say."

JOHN 1980: "One of George's best songs. One of my favorites of his, too. He's clear on that song. His mind and his music are clear. There is his innate talent. He brought that sound together."

 

Philip Norman is an Outsider who attempts to come across as an Insider, and there are countless examples of The Beatles' own words/thoughts that directly contradict Philip's fantastic claims, such as those during the video posted above.  I feel that there's too much of a big deal being made of John not playing on some of George's songs later on as well, again, John wasn't all that interested in The Beatles anymore and by the time of the White Album wasn't making any bones about it to the others.  There's plenty of Paul McCartney songs that John didn't play on either post 'Sgt. Pepper', probably even more so than George's songs.  Shining a spotlight on any strains to John & George's working/personal relationship needs to be put in its proper perspective, and that's that John Lennon really was interested in collaborating with one person, and one person only from 1968 onward, and it wasn't Paul McCartney, George Harrison or Ringo Starr…:-)   

 

 

10 March 2014
2.08pm
Von Bontee
A Hole In The Road
Apple rooftop
Forum Posts: 2172
Member Since:
14 December 2009
Offline
10

Didn't John have something to do with the writing of "Something" as well? I seem to recall John making a suggestion of something or another on that bootleg tape with George laughing at his temporary "…attracts me like a pomegranate" lyric.

One day, a tape-op got a tape on backwards, he went to play it, and it was all "Neeeradno-undowarrroom" and it was "Wow! Sounds Indian!" -- Paul McCartney
10 March 2014
2.33pm
meanmistermustard
Moderator



Forum Posts: 9238
Member Since:
1 May 2011
Offline
11

Didn't George as for help over some lyrics and John tell him to shove in anything until the right word(s) came to mind?

"Well, probably we'll sell less records, less people'll go to see the film, we'll write less songs, and we'll all die of failure" (John Lennon 8/64)
10 March 2014
2.59pm
Von Bontee
A Hole In The Road
Apple rooftop
Forum Posts: 2172
Member Since:
14 December 2009
Offline
12

That's probably what I was thinking of, thanks.

One day, a tape-op got a tape on backwards, he went to play it, and it was all "Neeeradno-undowarrroom" and it was "Wow! Sounds Indian!" -- Paul McCartney
10 March 2014
3.03pm
Billy Rhythm
Shea Stadium
Forum Posts: 431
Member Since:
22 December 2013
Offline
13

meanmistermustard said
Didn't George as for help over some lyrics and John tell him to shove in anything until the right word(s) came to mind?

 

This is actually some great advice, John did this all the time and came up with excellent lyrics…:-)

10 March 2014
3.30pm
DrBeatle
Boston
Apple rooftop
Forum Posts: 1387
Member Since:
29 November 2012
Offline
14

..and it was "cauliflower," if I'm not mistaken, not "pomegranate."

 

John didn't play on George's latter-era Beatles tunes, especially during '69-'70. And while he did help out with the lyrics for Taxman, he did so under duress…I believe the actual quote was ""I remember the day he [Harrison] called to ask for help on 'Taxman', one of his first songs. I threw in a few one-liners to help the song along, because that's what he asked for. He came to me because he couldn't go to Paul, because Paul wouldn't have helped him at that period. I didn't want to do it… I just sort of bit my tongue and said OK. It had been John and Paul for so long, he'd been left out because he hadn't been a songwriter up until then."

 

Not exactly a guy excited to help his mate out, is it?

"I know you, you know me; one thing I can tell you is you got to be free!"

 

Please Visit My Website, The Rock and Roll Chemist

Twitter: @blackbookblur

 

10 March 2014
3.39pm
meanmistermustard
Moderator



Forum Posts: 9238
Member Since:
1 May 2011
Offline

John certainly played on Something, you can hear his piano part at times in the mix – its very clear on the isolated rock band tracks and the reduced Take 37 which was used as the basic take for the final version.

"Well, probably we'll sell less records, less people'll go to see the film, we'll write less songs, and we'll all die of failure" (John Lennon 8/64)
10 March 2014
3.47pm
Expert Textpert
In bed.
Apple rooftop
Forum Posts: 1032
Member Since:
18 April 2013
Offline
16

Von Bontee said
Didn't John have something to do with the writing of "Something" as well? I seem to recall John making a suggestion of something or another on that bootleg tape with George laughing at his temporary "…attracts me like a pomegranate" lyric.

Haha, yes…there is a brilliantly funny part where George is trying to make up the lyrics to the song and he sings about how someone "missed the show," and John thinks he is singing "Mr. Show," so they make up the line, "What did you do now, Mr. Show?  I don't know.  I don't know."

"This Beatles talk bores me to death." --John Lennon

10 March 2014
3.49pm
Ron Nasty
"Where have you been?" "I'm not telling you..."
Apple rooftop
Forum Posts: 2942
Member Since:
17 December 2012
Offline
17

@DrBeatle I actually see that quote a bit different. I look at the bit where John says, "It had been John and Paul for so long…", as John admitting it almost felt like cheating on Paul, and that it had been him and Paul for so long that he was unsure how to do it with someone else beyond just doing what was asked – whereas with Paul he was comfortable being more assertive because they understood how it worked between them.

The interesting thing when you think about it, excluding wives, Paul has a long list of post-Beatles songwriting collaborators, John – off the top of my head – had one co-credit on a Bowie song.

"I only said we were bigger than Rod... and now there's all this!" Ron Nasty
10 March 2014
3.55pm
Expert Textpert
In bed.
Apple rooftop
Forum Posts: 1032
Member Since:
18 April 2013
Offline

DrBeatle said
..and it was "cauliflower," if I'm not mistaken, not "pomegranate."

 

John didn't play on George's latter-era Beatles tunes, especially during '69-'70. And while he did help out with the lyrics for Taxman, he did so under duress…I believe the actual quote was ""I remember the day he [Harrison] called to ask for help on 'Taxman', one of his first songs. I threw in a few one-liners to help the song along, because that's what he asked for. He came to me because he couldn't go to Paul, because Paul wouldn't have helped him at that period. I didn't want to do it… I just sort of bit my tongue and said OK. It had been John and Paul for so long, he'd been left out because he hadn't been a songwriter up until then."

 

Not exactly a guy excited to help his mate out, is it?

No, it's definitely "pomegranate."  And I remember that quote, too.  John was only interested in writing with Paul, although after the breakup they both saw Paul as a common adversary for a time.

Whenever I see the title of this thread, I imagine John giving George some lyrics, and then saying "Now don't say I never did anything for you."  Or I hear George complaining, "What have you ever done for me?"

"This Beatles talk bores me to death." --John Lennon

10 March 2014
4.58pm
DrBeatle
Boston
Apple rooftop
Forum Posts: 1387
Member Since:
29 November 2012
Offline
19

If you listen to this bit from a bootleg, they use cauliflower, pomegranate, maple tree, and loads of other nonsense to fill in that line.

 

The following people thank DrBeatle for this post:

Expert Textpert

"I know you, you know me; one thing I can tell you is you got to be free!"

 

Please Visit My Website, The Rock and Roll Chemist

Twitter: @blackbookblur

 

10 March 2014
9.22pm
Ron Nasty
"Where have you been?" "I'm not telling you..."
Apple rooftop
Forum Posts: 2942
Member Since:
17 December 2012
Offline
20

IveJustSeenAFaceo said
@DrBeatle How'd you get that SoundCloud embedded? Could be useful for sharing music I've made.

Sorry, but isn't that a PM?

stay-on-topic

"I only said we were bigger than Rod... and now there's all this!" Ron Nasty
Forum Timezone: Europe/London

Most Users Ever Online: 597

Currently Online: Lennonista, trcanberra
63 Guest(s)

Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)

Top Posters:

meanmistermustard: 9238

mr. Sun king coming together: 6916

parlance: 4902

mithveaen: 4651

Ahhh Girl: 4466

Zig: 3641

Wannadog40: 3541

Mr. Kite: 3185

Ron Nasty: 2942

fabfouremily: 2927

Member Stats:

Guest Posters: 87

Members: 2500

Moderators: 4

Admins: 2

Forum Stats:

Groups: 3

Forums: 34

Topics: 3184

Posts: 128835

Newest Members: Rendersen25, emshicks321, S. L. Martin, DianaDavis, tangerinetrees99

Moderators: Ahhh Girl (4466), meanmistermustard (9238), Zig (3641), Joe (3404)

Administrators: Joe (3404), Ellie (1)

Members Birthdays
Today: None
Upcoming: None