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Was John going to divorce Yoko?
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21 July 2010
3.01pm
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robert
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There has been a fair amount of speculation that John was considering divorcing Yoko - in fact some believe this was the disturbing comment John made at the studio that Jack Douglas was so weirded out by.

I've been thinking about this and find it hard to believe because in all his final interviews John was so up about his marriage, Sean, music, etc. - I've read and/or listened to just about all of them and he just doesn't sound like a 40 year old guy about to leave his wife.

What I do think was going to happen was John was going to reunite with Paul - at least to write together - and possibly all three ex-Beatles - for some sort of reunion - not a full blown reassemblage but getting back together to see what it might be like.

I believe this because of John's comments and becuase of the court document he filed saying that he was going to reunite with the Beatles in early 1981 (this is from the Peter Dogget book and seems well documented).

I believe Yoko was going to sabotage this reunion - as she did back in the 70's when John was living in Greenwich Village with May Pang and he was going to start working with Paul again. Listen to #9 Dream (Walls And Bridges) "Dream, dream, dream away - there's magic in the air - I believe, yes I believe, what more can I say?" that line clearly rescinds the "I don't believe in Beatles - the dream is over" lines from God.

So I think John's comments in the studio that night were more about getting Yoko out of the way of de-railing a reunion and/or working relationship with Paul - perhaps that he wasn't going to let her insecurity screw up his career any longer.

Total specualtion but that's what we do here. Open to comment agreeing, disagreeing or adding other thoughts.

"She looks more like him than I do."
21 July 2010
10.54pm
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Von Bontee
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robert said:

So I think John's comments in the studio that night were more about getting Yoko out of the way of de-railing a reunion and/or working relationship with Paul - perhaps that he wasn't going to let her insecurity screw up his career any longer.

Total specualtion but that's what we do here. Open to comment agreeing, disagreeing or adding other thoughts.


Really, this is most unfair and a bit absurd. Have you ever heard "
Jealous Guy" or "I'm Losing You"? John was far more insecure than Yoko, and he'd be the first to admit it. And he was perfectly able of potentially screwing up his own career by coking and boozing it up with Harry Nillsson, recording bland rock 'n roll covers and generally making an ass of himself in Los Angeles.

Aside from that, I have no opinion one way or another or care to speculate about any of that stuff. But this Peter Doggett stuff about a plan to reunite in 1981 - what's this about? I've never heard anything about this, can you enlighten me?

One day, a tape-op got a tape on backwards, he went to play it, and it was all "Neeeradno-undowarrroom" and it was "Wow! Sounds Indian!" -- Paul McCartney
22 July 2010
1.18pm
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Joe
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I'm doubtful that there were ever real plans for a reunion (though I haven't read the Peter Doggett book yet). In his 1980 Rolling Stone interview (published in full book form as All We Are Saying by David Sheff, and well worth buying) John was pretty scathing about George, saying he got little more than a passing mention in the I Me Mine book. He also repeatedly expresses how bored he is talking about The Beatles' break-up and the possibility of a reunion, which he was constantly asked about by journalists and the public.

All Those Years Ago was originally written for Ringo to sing, but he didn't like the range or the lyrics. I'm not sure if they were anti-Lennon words or not – AFAIK nobody's ever published them.

I've heard about this court document before. It was because Apple Corps was trying to block a stage production called Beatlemania. Lennon submitted an affidavit in November 1980 saying "I and the three other former Beatles have plans to stage a reunion concert", although this wasn't made public until judges awarded Apple $10.5m in damages in 1986.

The concert was supposedly to form the finale for the The Long And Winding Road, a documentary by Neil Aspinall that eventually became Anthology. Perjury risks aside, I've always suspected that this was bluster on Lennon's part as a way of stopping Beatlemania from going ahead, and there was no substance to it. I've never heard any of the other three say they were planning to reform – wouldn't somebody have said something if there had been actual plans?

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22 July 2010
6.38pm
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Zig
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To the fountain of perpetual mirth, Let it roll for all its worth.

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23 July 2010
12.22am
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Von Bontee
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Heh, I suspect that any reunion would've been one of the biggest anticlimaxes in history! But only because I'm negative that way.

And, uh, obviously I wish John Lennon hadn't been killed.

Oh, and thanks for the info, Joe!

One day, a tape-op got a tape on backwards, he went to play it, and it was all "Neeeradno-undowarrroom" and it was "Wow! Sounds Indian!" -- Paul McCartney
16 October 2010
12.31pm
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mr. Sun king coming together
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3 things;
1. Didn't Yoko fall in love with a Assistant when John was in Bermuda
2. Yoko would have sabotaged a reunion People only bought Half John Half Yoko albums because of John. Her Music on
Double Fantasy would be great instrumentals but her voice ruins it
3. Lennon wouldn't have lied in an affidavit
His lawyer wouldn't let him

As if it matters how a man falls down.'

'When the fall's all that's left, it matters a great deal.

29 October 2010
10.46am
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robert
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If anyone doubts there was going to be a Beatles reunion in 1981, centered around Ringo's next album, you should listen to the Jack Douglas interview at this website:

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/americ.....glas/1623/

 

in terms of divorce, I am fairly convinced based on interviews, etc, that something was amiss in the house of Lennon. It may very well have been that Yoko was "stepping out" on John - I do recall an interview with someone (could be Bob Gruen) saying he was visiting Yoko shorlty after John's death and Fred Seaman came out in a bathrobe. Yoko was semi-flustered.

 

oh well.

"She looks more like him than I do."
1 November 2010
12.42pm
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Joe
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There's a similar story here, though from the 1990s.

I don't think Yoko was ever in a relationship with Fred Seaman though. Sam Havadtoy, yes, for around 20 years until 2001.

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1 November 2010
9.20pm
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MeanMrsMustard
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robert said:

If anyone doubts there was going to be a Beatles reunion in 1981, centered around Ringo's next album, you should listen to the Jack Douglas interview at this website:

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/americ.....glas/1623/

 

in terms of divorce, I am fairly convinced based on interviews, etc, that something was amiss in the house of Lennon. It may very well have been that Yoko was "stepping out" on John - I do recall an interview with someone (could be Bob Gruen) saying he was visiting Yoko shorlty after John's death and Fred Seaman came out in a bathrobe. Yoko was semi-flustered.

 

oh well.


A bathrobe? 

I think someone is stealing from another fairly-well-known story.... two-virgins

If I seem to act unkind, it's only me, it's not my mind that is confusing things.

11 February 2011
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HerMajestyRS
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 Has anybody read the book Magical Mystery Tour by Tony Bramwell (he grew up with the Beatles, a few years younger than George and worked for EMI and Brian Epstein personally)? His book talked of John and Yoko having problems near the end of John's life - that John had called Mimi and told her he wanted to come back to England (whether that was with or without Yoko, wasn't said). It just sounds odd to me...

  And so do these lyrics from Double Fantasy's "Watching The Wheels": Ah, people asking questions lost in confusion
Well I tell them there's no problem, only solutions
Well they shake their heads and they Look At Me as if I've lost my mind
I tell them there's no hurry
I'm just sitting here doing time

 

Just seems interesting because "doing time" is so closely associated with being in prison.

And in the end the love you take is equal to the love you make.
11 February 2011
4.13am
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StarWisher
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mithveaen said:

HerMajestyRS said:

I'm just sitting here doing time

 

Just seems interesting because "doing time" is so closely associated with being in prison.


Umb.. that's interesting.. although I don't think he was doing time in prison…. he was more like "I'm just here". But what you say is quite interesting…
 

Not to discredit his raising Sean, but I'm sure after 5 years of tending to someone else's needs and being a house-husband, (probably neither of which he had ever done before) he may have felt imprisoned in his home or in his mind. He really wanted to get back out there and record.

To answer the original question, I don't know. The Lennon Legacy and Legend has colored that period of time for better or worse. In Woman, he is calling her the meaning of success. Can I go off topic for a moment?: "Awwwwwwww!" but then there are songs like Just Like Starting Over, which implies to me that there was maybe something going on.

However, it's a fact of life, every relationship has its peaks and valleys. I can imagine with two strong personalities like John and Yoko, they may have clashed often, but respected each other's point of view as well. I don't know if John and Yoko were going to divorce right then, but after consulting my Magic 8 Ball, my sources say no.

"We are all a little weird and life's a little weird, and when we find someone whose weirdness is compatible with ours, we join up with them and fall in mutual weirdness and call it love." — Dr. Seuss
 
 
11 February 2011
11.24am
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Joe
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It's probably best left for another thread, but that Tony Bramwell book really is a load of crap. The woman who ghostwrote it seems to have left in a whole heap of inaccuracies (I noted these down while I was reading it but never got round to writing a review), and the endless Yoko-bashing and womanising (it's full of self-satisfied remarks like "Mick and Keith's house was always full of girls from the local collage. I ended up sleeping with half of them, but it would have been rude not to") gets really boring very quickly. There are some interesting recollections in there but a whole load of hearsay too. He also takes credit for some things that didn't happen (eg he claims that, in Many Years From Now, Paul McCartney says he coined the word 'heavy' in the hippy sense, which isn't what the book says at all). Interesting that he's barely mentioned in any Beatles books, and just once - by Neil Aspinall - in Anthology.

I had some email correspondence with him a while ago, and it seems he can barely write. I suspect it was all the work of Rosemary Kingsland, the ghostwriter, though I may have underestimated him a little.

On the subject of John's divorce, though, I think Peter Doggett's You Never Give Me Your Money - a far more reliable book - says Yoko was planning to leave him until the plans for Double Fantasy took shape, after which she realised she could improve her lot if she stayed a little longer. May be true, who knows?

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11 February 2011
5.13pm
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GniknuS
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From listening to John's last interviews, it seems as though Yoko would spend her days locked away in her office doing whatever she was doing and John wouldn't see her for hours or sometimes the entire day. So from that and listening to some of his tracks on Double Fantasy like I'm Losing You, I wouldn't really be surprised if John felt as though the relationship were on the rocks, but again that's pure speculation that no one, save Yoko and maybe Elliot Mintz, knows the answer to.

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