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Miscellaneous questions about John Lennon
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23 November 2013
10.49pm
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meanmistermustard
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Personally i believe that John detested his actions in 1980, speaking to Playboy in December of that year he said

I was a hitter. I couldn't express myself and I hit. I fought men and I hit women. That is why I am always on about peace, you see. It is the most violent people who go for love and peace. Everything's the opposite. But I sincerely believe in love and peace. I am a violent man who has learned not to be violent and regrets his violence. I will have to be a lot older before I can face in public how I treated women as a youngster."

That doesn't seem to me to be someone who wasn't affected by his actions. Does that mean he changed as he aged/towards the end of his life? I would like to think he had (and i know JohnandYoko created this bullshit persona for their entire relationship).

I'm not saying that makes what he did ok, it doesn't, far from it. It's a very difficult area because there is no excuse for what happened but i've never been in that situation so i can't say what i would do if i had been. 

One of the biggest problems isn't what John said or acted, its how his persona and legacy has been manipulated by Yoko over the last 30 years (in other words she talks utter shit) into being this wonderful guy who was all out for peace and love all his life. He really was a bastard at times, a total asshole who makes it very difficult at times to have any respect for. And people read how he really was and they get pissed off because of all the Imagine stuff shoved down their throats.

The following people thank meanmistermustard for this post:

Oudis
Don’t make your love suffer insecurities, trade the baggage of self to set another one free. ('Paper Skin' - Kendall Payne)
24 November 2013
2.02pm
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meanmistermustard
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Cash is what motivates Yoko. Simple as. And its easier to market a Peace Loving John than the actual real John who you read about in a billion books and discover if you listen to anything outside of Imagine (the song) - which is coincidentally the brand Yoko created for all things John related.

Don’t make your love suffer insecurities, trade the baggage of self to set another one free. ('Paper Skin' - Kendall Payne)
24 November 2013
11.04pm
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Hannah
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I suppose my point is that there is enough about John that I love that I can still see him as my hero. There are probably plenty of people who society calls heros who we don't happen to know everything about and who may have done terrible things we aren't even aware of. Because there have been so many books written about John, so many people giving opinions and supposed facts (simply because he is such an incredibly famous person) we can't avoid all these unpalatable so called truths. Some people even say he caused Stuart's death which I don't happen to believe for a second. Yes, he admitted to being violent in his youth which is deplorable. However, do we believe that he kept this behaviour up, or did he recognise it as a deeply terrible flaw and change? Some people may think he didn't change but in my view he did and was strong enough to admit to what he had done in the past and declare himself a reformed person. To me, that's brave and admirable. I can't change the way I feel about him and the vibes I feel he gave off and the message he was trying to get across. Which was, violence is a destructive and terrible thing. He had been that person and wanted to warn others not to take that road.  Saying all that though, it's a personal thing and I don't hold him up as a saint, just someone I love and admire. I'm not saying everyone should feel the same and understand totally why they don't. 

I hope I haven't given anyone the impression that I condone violence because I honestly don't and wish the world was a non violent peaceful place. Sorry if I have offended anyone. heart

25 November 2013
9.32pm
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Hannah
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Thanks mccartneyalarm, you've summed up my feelings perfectly. Have an Apple! apple01 Because I'm such a music and film junkie most of my heros tend to be from those fields. Bette Davis is one of my heros and she was meant to be a complete bitch! I just love her films and her don't give a shit attitude so I suppose she's the female equivalent of John in a way (that might be a bit of a stretch but what the hey!) Maybe it's because I'm the complete opposite, really shy and self conscious so I wish I could be more forthright like them. 

25 November 2013
10.20pm
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Hannah, I'm with you.  John has touched my life in a very big way, and I do see him as a hero.  I think he was a hero because he dared to stand up for what he believed and got his message across, whatever it took, or however badly he was perceived for it.

He was also a very honest person.  I admire him for admitting his faults, and I don't condone his violent behavior, but I think I understand it.  Almost every single person that he looked up to died:  His mother, Stuart, his Uncle George, Brian Epstein...I think he had an inner struggle with feelings of insecurity and abandonment, and rage and anger about the world.  I would say that he suffered from existential angst.  He was also the product of a violent culture.  He looked like a Teddy Boy, and Teddy Boys would knife you or put razor blades in their lapels so when people grabbed them they would bleed.  He saw violence toward women glamourized in movies as well.

He went through a lot and he grew as a person, and he transformed.  He stopped hitting, and he became a feminist.  I think we have to take his Playboy interview as his definitive statement because that represents who he was just before he died. And in that interview, you can see that he has come to terms with his past.  He admits he loves peace because he was a violent person.

He also believed, as he said to Fred Seaman, that he himself would meet a violent end as karma for the violent things he had done.  And he did.  He knew he was flawed, and we know he was flawed--but he also knew what he stood for.  I think that is why Yoko sells "peace" when it comes to John.  I don't think it's just for money.  I think this is the way she wants to remember him, because she probably has very good memories of their love and their "year of peace."  I don't see anything wrong with that.  John sold peace through his songs, and he advertised peace on billboards.

 

"This Beatles talk bores me to death." --John Lennon
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