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John's violent streak...
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29 May 2011
9.58pm
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mr. Sun king coming together
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Let's see, lots to say. First, his father came back to him AFTER he became famous. Not before. That's scummy.
Secondly, Yoko gave him loads of creativity and was the direct inspiration to every single one of his
White Album songs except for Good Night and Cry Baby Cry. Thridly, Paul (who I presume is your favourite) indulged us as well with his McCartney and McCartney 2 albums. Fourthly, Lennon lost his commercial status because he wasn't living up to the Beatles standard. All 4 of them lost it at some point before 1975. Also, I'm a fan of Yoko because she believed in peace, which was and is in short supply. And lastly, Lennon was more inconsistent before 1968. He had highs (Day In The Life, Walrus, TNK, SFF), but he had so lows (Doctor Robert, Run For Your Life, It's Only Love), whereas he lost the peaks and valleys and made consistently great albums (except Some Time) for his entire solo career.

As if it matters how a man falls down.'

'When the fall's all that's left, it matters a great deal.

29 May 2011
10.05pm
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MeanMrsMustard
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If I seem to act unkind, it's only me, it's not my mind that is confusing things.

29 May 2011
11.55pm
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mr. Sun king coming together
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look at his solo career. His best 3 albums was recorded with Yoko as co-producer (DF, POB, Imagine). I mean, he made great stuff without her, but he wasn't in any way creatively inhibited by her.

As if it matters how a man falls down.'

'When the fall's all that's left, it matters a great deal.

30 May 2011
1.56pm
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Zig
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This topic does lend itself to emotional responses no matter how you feel about it. So, I read the original question again;

What did you all think of John Lennon's violent streak, especially toward women?

As a Beatles fan, I always have a hard time explaining this stuff to others.

 

It got me to thinking about the use of the phrase violent "streak". To me, the word streak indicates two to four incidents in a row deemed to be violent. From what I have read here and elsewhere, I got the sense that violence was a pattern with John, not just a streak. If "streak" was used by JFKin60 to draw attention to John's violent "side", that would make more sense to me.

Let's face it, we all know the man was no angel - he knew it just as well as anyone. That in no way is me blowing off what he did or did not do. As I said upthread, every single human on the planet is flawed. Some, more than others.

This topic also made me wonder who suffered more as a result of his actions; the seemingly endless list of "victims" (real or fabricated), the other 3 Beatles? Beatles fans? John himself? We could debate that for years. I'd rather not, but knock yourselves out (figuratively, please).

Last thought - JFKin60, I don't think for one moment you have a hard time explaining this stuff to anyone. Your opinions are welcome here.

apple01

To the fountain of perpetual mirth, Let it roll for all its worth.

Every Little Thing you buy from Amazon or iTunes will help the Beatles Bible if you use these links: Amazon | iTunes

30 May 2011
6.49pm
JFKin60
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mr. Sun king coming together said:

Or on Abbey Road, or anything he did on Plastic Ono Band, Imagine, Double Fantasy, or anything he did after I Am The Walrus? Give me a break. I mean, I don't like all his out there songs, but I respect them for artistic merit. I don't especially like Me and My Monkey but I respect it as it shows how he was feeling at the time.

He was great from 68-70, but all I'm saying is he as GREATER from 63-68.

I wasn't into songs about how John was feeling. I wouldn't have wanted to hear a song of his with lyrics about him having the flu or a hangover or something. He was doing way too much of that.

"If George Harrison can have a triple album, why can't I have a double album?"–Yoko Ono
30 May 2011
7.04pm
JFKin60
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MeanMrsMustard said:

1. JFK: You know that you can use multiple quotes in a single post, right?

2. John didn't break up the Beatles. The Beatles broke up the Beatles. They are amazing, but not something with a long shelf life. When you have the personalities that the Beatles had in a group, the group becomes pretty unstable. 

3. Didn't Paul write "Eight Days A Week?" I seem to vaguely remember from somewhere that it was one of the few exceptions to the "He who wrote it sang it" rule. 

1. No, I didn't.

2. John DEFINITELY broke up the Beatles and when he told them in his pathetic "you're daft" fit, they were all shocked. Paul, especially, wanted to keep them together. They should have just tossed John out and added Pete Ham of Badfinger. It would have still been a phenomenal group with all the Harrison, McCartney and Ham songs they could have thrown together for at least five more years.

3. I'm not totally sure on 8 Days. I just assumed John wrote most of that with his "formula music."

"If George Harrison can have a triple album, why can't I have a double album?"–Yoko Ono
30 May 2011
7.31pm
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GniknuS
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But you have to ask yourself why they would defend him if they were two of his biggest "victims." Maybe it's because as violent and angry as John could be, his love and compassion always outweighed his negative aspects. There's a quote from Ringo out there somewhere where he says that John had the biggest heart and was the most caring of any of the four, and then Ringo said "but he could also be crazy." That's Ringo talking, not some secondhand biographer so I put a lot of trust in what he's saying.

The Beatles broke themselves up, perhaps John wanted to get out the most so he was extremely proactive in ensuring their demise, but George didn't want to be in that group any more than John did because they were, as George says in Anthology, inhibited within the confines of being Beatles.

I think John was pretty stale as a songwriter before Yoko came along, at least in 67. He obviously has many great songs from that year and some would consider it his peak, but his dull, lifeless voice in Mr. Kite and Good Morning Good Morning and his lack of good material outside of Walrus on MMT tells me that he was bored as a songwriter. So Yoko came along and challenged him and he wrote some of his best material with her influence. I think that Plastic Ono Band was his peak as a songwriter because it's the most true to who he was.

So it's all opinion but with an enigma like John there will be many different opinions and none are necessarily incorrect.

I sat on a rug, biding my time, drinking her wine
30 May 2011
8.33pm
JFKin60
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mr. Sun king coming together said:

Von Bontee said:

It seems to me that most of John's violent episodes were exacerbated by alcohol abuse, pretty much. And I don't think explaining them is the same as excusing them.

My point exactly. He wasn't a saint (far from it), but most of know or will know someone like him.

I'm just waiting for Paul McCartney to come out and admit, "Sure, John murdered four people in Hamburg once, but he had a big heart...."

And then a geek like Sun King will say, "See what a great guy John was."

"If George Harrison can have a triple album, why can't I have a double album?"–Yoko Ono
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