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John's violent streak...
29 May 2011
12.50am
JFKin60
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What did you all think of John Lennon's violent streak, especially toward women?

As a Beatles fan, I always have a hard time explaining this stuff to others.

"If George Harrison can have a triple album, why can't I have a double album?"–Yoko Ono
29 May 2011
1.34am
mr. Sun king coming together
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I think everyone has this, just John has had it analysed and dissected more then other people's. I personally don't think this makes him that unique.

I tried to think of something powerful and moving… and failed.  "You were given a choice between war and dishonor - you chose dishonor, and you shall have war" - Winston Churchill
29 May 2011
4.13am
StrawberryLakiesha
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I don't think violent streaks are all that great for anyone, probably. For some people there pretty good though, but not most I wouldn't think! paul-mccartney

ONE MINUTE YOU'RE DEFENDING THE WHOLE GALAXY, AND SUDDENLY, YOU FIND YOURSELF SUCKING DOWN DARJEELING WITH MARIE ANTOINETTE AND HER LITTLE SISTER.!
29 May 2011
4.33am
JFKin60
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Lennon's streaks are indefensible...

He's attacked several women.

He nearly killed the announcer of The Cavern...

He fought in cowardly fashion.

But, hey, he wrote some damn good tunes from 63-67.

"If George Harrison can have a triple album, why can't I have a double album?"–Yoko Ono
29 May 2011
4.59am
GniknuS
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Uh oh an anti-Yoko guy...anyway I think Mr. Sun King is right, everyone has anger in them, John's was just more, er, present. I don't think he attacked "several" women although that certainly doesn't excuse how he treated Cynthia, although I don't recall her mentioning him hitting her after the Wooler incident which certainly did open John's eyes. But he was a drunk 23 year old who was just insulted and I've seen drunk 23 year olds do much more for much lesser reasons, so I don't really think less of him for beating one guy up.
Also I don't think you can really be anti-Yoko and still complain about John's violence, after all she made him into a feminist and opened his eyes to all that he did wrong when he was younger, so much younger than today. Just saying. a-hard-days-night-george-10

I sat on a rug, biding my time, drinking her wine
29 May 2011
6.23am
kedame
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I don't see anything anti-Yoko here...I'm confused??

"You can manicure a cat but can you caticure a man?" John Lennon- Skywriting by Word of Mouth
29 May 2011
8.54am
JFKin60
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kedame said:

I don't see anything anti-Yoko here...I'm confused??

He's confused.

"If George Harrison can have a triple album, why can't I have a double album?"–Yoko Ono
29 May 2011
12.09pm
mr. Sun king coming together
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This violent streak came because of drugs and booze. Those things make the violent streak we all have more present. He just did more drugs than most. And who are these "several women?" I count Cynthia and that's it.

I tried to think of something powerful and moving… and failed.  "You were given a choice between war and dishonor - you chose dishonor, and you shall have war" - Winston Churchill
29 May 2011
12.21pm
DoctorRobert
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I think John's attitude to women was sorta messed up after his mum died, but I think he redeemed himself after meeting Yoko and going cold turkey. Without all the drugs and after meeting his soulmate John really was a kind soul. And think about the line in Getting Better:

"I used to be cruel to my woman, I beat her and kept her apart from the things that she loved. Man I was mean, but I'm changing my scene and I'm doing the best that I can."

You all will have read that Dave Dee is no longer with us. But Mickey and Titch and I would like to carry on the good work that's always gone down in number two.
29 May 2011
1.54pm
Zig
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JFKin60 said:

What did you all think of John Lennon's violent streak, especially toward women?

As a Beatles fan, I always have a hard time explaining this stuff to others.

It's really not that difficult a situation for me. I look "others" right in the eye and say, "he was a flawed human being who had his shortcomings - just like me and you."

apple01

To the fountain of perpetual mirth, Let it roll for all its worth.

Every Little Thing you buy from Amazon or iTunes will help the Beatles Bible if you use these links: Amazon | iTunes

29 May 2011
6.26pm
JFKin60
Tempe, Arizona
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mr. Sun king coming together said:

This violent streak came because of drugs and booze. Those things make the violent streak we all have more present. He just did more drugs than most. And who are these "several women?" I count Cynthia and that's it.

As far as I know, he never hit Cynthia, but he abused her in every other way imaginable, even conspiring to make it look as though their crumbling marriage was because of HER infidelity....

However, he punched Yoko and May Pang. He also attacked a waitress and a woman on the street following the Smothers Brothers/Troubador incident. (And no, Goldman was not the only one to write this).

Lennon also threatened his struggling dad with conspiring to have him killed, even going as far as to tell him exactly how much it would cost to put him on the bottom of the ocean...

Drugs and booze defense? Couldn't Charles Manson also use that?

"If George Harrison can have a triple album, why can't I have a double album?"–Yoko Ono
29 May 2011
6.28pm
JFKin60
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DoctorRobert said:

I think John's attitude to women was sorta messed up after his mum died, but I think he redeemed himself after meeting Yoko and going cold turkey. Without all the drugs and after meeting his soulmate John really was a kind soul. And think about the line in Getting Better:

"I used to be cruel to my woman, I beat her and kept her apart from the things that she loved. Man I was mean, but I'm changing my scene and I'm doing the best that I can."

I'm not sure how the 'Getting Better' quote applied here, since Paul wrote that song...

He also STARTED using heroin WITH Yoko and probably BECAUSE of Yoko and quit once but was rumored to be back on it again, as was Yoko, who kept it from John.

"If George Harrison can have a triple album, why can't I have a double album?"–Yoko Ono
29 May 2011
6.40pm
mr. Sun king coming together
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Let's see.
1. I didn't know he hit Yoko and May.
2. His dad's a scumbag!!! He deserved to be chewed out by his son for being a horrible father.
3. John wrote the part of Getting Better that Doctor Robert quoted.
4. Manson was insane (in my opinion. Not sure of the actual verdict.), not high. And again, most people have a similar violent streak. You probably do, everyone does. He just has had his life microexamined to the point where he is made out to be almost two separate people, the musician and the asshole (which he certainly was!!).

I tried to think of something powerful and moving… and failed.  "You were given a choice between war and dishonor - you chose dishonor, and you shall have war" - Winston Churchill
29 May 2011
6.47pm
GniknuS
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Not anti-Yoko? Then what exactly were you implying when you said "he wrote some damn good tunes from 63-67?" Let's see, what happened to John in 68? Anyone? Bueller? Come on now, I've seen comments like that on YouTube and on a few of the songs pages here and they bother me because they are just such fake comments. Really, you don't think John wrote any good songs on the White Album, really?

I sat on a rug, biding my time, drinking her wine
29 May 2011
6.52pm
mr. Sun king coming together
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Or on Abbey Road, or anything he did on Plastic Ono Band, Imagine, Double Fantasy, or anything he did after I Am The Walrus? Give me a break. I mean, I don't like all his out there songs, but I respect them for artistic merit. I don't especially like Me and My Monkey but I respect it as it shows how he was feeling at the time.

I tried to think of something powerful and moving… and failed.  "You were given a choice between war and dishonor - you chose dishonor, and you shall have war" - Winston Churchill
29 May 2011
8.30pm
kedame
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However, just because someone doesn't like his output post-67 doesn't mean they blame Yoko for it...Who knows, they could blame the death of Brian or John's increased hard drug use. Though I do agree, he had some great stuff post-67. My favorite John songs will always be White Album and down, though, with his most awesome stuff being his middle period work.

"You can manicure a cat but can you caticure a man?" John Lennon- Skywriting by Word of Mouth
29 May 2011
9.26pm
JFKin60
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mr. Sun king coming together said:

Let's see.
1. I didn't know he hit Yoko and May.
2. His dad's a scumbag!!! He deserved to be chewed out by his son for being a horrible father.
3. John wrote the part of Getting Better that Doctor Robert quoted.
4. Manson was insane (in my opinion. Not sure of the actual verdict.), not high. And again, most people have a similar violent streak. You probably do, everyone does. He just has had his life microexamined to the point where he is made out to be almost two separate people, the musician and the asshole (which he certainly was!!).

1. He did.

2. His dad was NOT a scumbag and had come back to Lennon hat in hand to which Lennon accepted him and THEN turned on him because he was in yet another drug-induced, insecurity-driven rage while Yoko was standing next to him with his dad's wife and small child in the room.

3. I don't think Lennon wrote that line, but I could be wrong. Doesn't matter anyway. He hit several of his women AFTER that song.

4. Manson was NOT insane and played the media with brilliance. He totally knew what he was doing and both the Tate and LaBianca murders were NOT at random. Under no circumstances do I or do I associate with anyone that have tempers and histories of which like John Lennon.

5. Believe it or not, I'm still a fan of John Lennon.

"If George Harrison can have a triple album, why can't I have a double album?"–Yoko Ono
29 May 2011
9.27pm
JFKin60
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GniknuS said:

Not anti-Yoko? Then what exactly were you implying when you said "he wrote some damn good tunes from 63-67?" Let's see, what happened to John in 68? Anyone? Bueller? Come on now, I've seen comments like that on YouTube and on a few of the songs pages here and they bother me because they are just such fake comments. Really, you don't think John wrote any good songs on the White Album, really?

Who's Bueller?

Where's that moderator talking about respect here?

"If George Harrison can have a triple album, why can't I have a double album?"–Yoko Ono
29 May 2011
9.32pm
JFKin60
Tempe, Arizona
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GniknuS said:

Not anti-Yoko? Then what exactly were you implying when you said "he wrote some damn good tunes from 63-67?" Let's see, what happened to John in 68? Anyone? Bueller? Come on now, I've seen comments like that on YouTube and on a few of the songs pages here and they bother me because they are just such fake comments. Really, you don't think John wrote any good songs on the White Album, really?

Lennon wrote several good songs post '68, but you can't tell me that he wasn't a whole lot better prior to '68.

Once Yoko came around, he faded miserably thanks to his own self-indulgence while of the feeling that he was some sort of god and that all of his fans were just waiting to here is views of the world no matter to what extreme. (Find me anything worse than his and Yoko's screaming on the Two Virgins album.)

Am I anti-Yoko? How could anyone NOT be?

Yoko is the turd that landed in the Beatles' garden and never lost its odor.

"If George Harrison can have a triple album, why can't I have a double album?"–Yoko Ono
29 May 2011
9.38pm
JFKin60
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I forgot to mention that Lennon also lost his elite commercial status in the 70s because of his high regard for himself, that allowed him to force his wife into the recording studio onto the other three Beatles and producers/technicians, not to mention post their nude bodies onto album covers and embarrassed Beatles nation with other stunts like his useless bed-in-for-peace and other childlike public stunts.

Yoko did not break up the Beatles. John did.

"If George Harrison can have a triple album, why can't I have a double album?"–Yoko Ono
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