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If John had never met Yoko...
5 August 2012
10.02pm
meanmistermustard
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Agree with those who say that John would have died early, it wouldnt have been deliberate or anything, more like Hendrix, Jones, Epstein etc.

 

What a morbid post.

"Well, probably we'll sell less records, less people'll go to see the film, we'll write less songs, and we'll all die of failure" (John Lennon 8/64)
5 August 2012
11.50pm
The Walrus
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Dipsy said

And as for the whole theory of John not dying the way he did if he had never met Yoko, I'm not so sure about that likelihood…Because Chapman lived in Hawaii, he had to purchase a plane ticket to New York in order to carry out the assassination. Therefore, I think there's a high probability that he would have attempted to kill John no matter where he lived. Because he had to travel to get to John, Mark David Chapman--if he was dead set on going through with the murder (which, based on the fact that he had traveled to NYC in October of that same year with the intention of carrying out his bloody scheme, he was)--would have been liable to buy a plane ticket to any place John was. Consequently, I believe John might have died at Chapman's expense no matter where life led him. 

I think John would have been less likely to record Imagine if not for Yoko. That was a big part of Chapman's motivation, though John would still have made the "bigger than Jesus" remark.

It also "helped" that John had just made his comeback from baking bread. Perhaps the moment would simply never have been right without Yoko. It's too complicated.

And I neeeeeeeeed her all the time
6 August 2012
12.58am
meanmistermustard
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The Walrus said

Dipsy said

And as for the whole theory of John not dying the way he did if he had never met Yoko, I'm not so sure about that likelihood…Because Chapman lived in Hawaii, he had to purchase a plane ticket to New York in order to carry out the assassination. Therefore, I think there's a high probability that he would have attempted to kill John no matter where he lived. Because he had to travel to get to John, Mark David Chapman--if he was dead set on going through with the murder (which, based on the fact that he had traveled to NYC in October of that same year with the intention of carrying out his bloody scheme, he was)--would have been liable to buy a plane ticket to any place John was. Consequently, I believe John might have died at Chapman's expense no matter where life led him. 

I think John would have been less likely to record Imagine if not for Yoko. That was a big part of Chapman's motivation, though John would still have made the "bigger than Jesus" remark.

It also "helped" that John had just made his comeback from baking bread. Perhaps the moment would simply never have been right without Yoko. It's too complicated.

One of the other motives was the belief that going back to '66 John had sold out, he was a fraud, heck the killer had even started to believe he was the real John Lennon. The guy was a maniac so who knows what he would have done if John hadnt met Yoko. As John said "if they're gonna get you, they're going to get you" (may not be exact quote but its the gist).

"Well, probably we'll sell less records, less people'll go to see the film, we'll write less songs, and we'll all die of failure" (John Lennon 8/64)
6 August 2012
12.09pm
robert
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Dipsy said

robert said
John would still be alive and if I were Julian that would be enough.

I am very confused as to what you mean by "…and if I were Julian, that would be enough". Can you please explain what exactly it is that you're trying to say?

And as for the whole theory of John not dying the way he did if he had never met Yoko, I'm not so sure about that likelihood…Because Chapman lived in Hawaii, he had to purchase a plane ticket to New York in order to carry out the assassination. Therefore, I think there's a high probability that he would have attempted to kill John no matter where he lived. Because he had to travel to get to John, Mark David Chapman--if he was dead set on going through with the murder (which, based on the fact that he had traveled to NYC in October of that same year with the intention of carrying out his bloody scheme, he was)--would have been liable to buy a plane ticket to any place John was. Consequently, I believe John might have died at Chapman's expense no matter where life led him. 

Dipsy what I meant was that Julian didn't lose "John Lennon" he lost his dad. I believe if John had lived, regardless of his career or accomplishments moving forward, Julian would be happy just to have his dad alive.

"She looks more like him than I do."
8 August 2012
12.23am
Dipsy
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a-hard-days-night-ringo-8Thanks for the explanation, Robert, but I'm still confused…Judging by the way you phrased your sentence ("…and if I were Julian, that would be enough…"), it kind of sounds as if you're making a statement that Julian is somehow bitter towards John: is that what you mean? *Sorry if I'm reading into this the wrong way; like I said, your phrasing just confused me.* ahdn_paul_01

"I'm not going to change the way I look or the way I feel to conform to anything. I've always been a freak. So I've been a freak all my life and I have to live with that, you know? I'm just one of those people."
8 August 2012
10.12am
meanmistermustard
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John and Julian didnt have a great relationship for a number of reasons; John walking out to be with Yoko being a biggie, Yoko existing in any shape or form another, i dont think they every trully made up tho they did hang out a bit in the 70's, far less tho when John and Yoko reconciled.

Julian [supposedly] recorded Too Late For Goodbyes about his relationship with his Dad, its a fabulous song, sounds very much like it could be a John solo song.

"Well, probably we'll sell less records, less people'll go to see the film, we'll write less songs, and we'll all die of failure" (John Lennon 8/64)
11 August 2012
7.08am
unknown
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According to Cynthia Lennon's book John, Too Late For Goodbyes was actually written about one of Julian's ex-girlfriends. Well I Don't Know was a song written about John.

All living things must abide by the laws of the shape they inhabit
13 September 2012
12.28am
Holsety
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I remember reading or hearing somewhere Chapman wasn't allowed to exit the US (or Hawaii, apparently), but John might have toured actively if he were healthy and the same thing could have happened.

Please don't wake me, no don't shake me, leave me where I am, I'm only sleeping~.
17 September 2012
12.12am
robert
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Dipsy said
a-hard-days-night-ringo-8Thanks for the explanation, Robert, but I'm still confused…Judging by the way you phrased your sentence ("…and if I were Julian, that would be enough…"), it kind of sounds as if you're making a statement that Julian is somehow bitter towards John: is that what you mean? *Sorry if I'm reading into this the wrong way; like I said, your phrasing just confused me.* ahdn_paul_01

Sorry for the long time to reply – what I meant was sort of coming from a personal place. My dad died when I was 19 and a lot of circumstances went into play in order for his death to occur, so I guess what I meant was that if changing one event would have kept John alive, then that would be enough for Julian. Nothing more than that to read into it.

Although, I wouldn't be surprised if at some time Julian did feel bitterness towards John (for awhile after his death) because you tend to feel cheated when you lose a parent and those feelings sometimes go to weird places.

The following people thank robert for this post:

Oudis
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24 September 2012
4.58pm
Zig
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And now for something completely different…

If John had never met Yoko, we may never have heard this little ditty. I heard it for the first time on an episdoe of The Big Bang Theory and nearly choked on a mouthful of potato chips.

 

To the fountain of perpetual mirth, Let it roll for all its worth.

Every Little Thing you buy from Amazon or iTunes will help the Beatles Bible if you use these links: Amazon | iTunes

24 September 2012
5.46pm
meanmistermustard
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a-hard-days-night-ringo-8 That is such a cool tune and love the video. Fabulous. Love the third verse especially.

 

Ive never seen the Big Bang Theory.

"Well, probably we'll sell less records, less people'll go to see the film, we'll write less songs, and we'll all die of failure" (John Lennon 8/64)
27 September 2012
5.01am
SatanHimself
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GeorgeTSimpson said
I think John would have very few songs for the White Album and so I think paul would have recorded a solo album, which would have made john very angry and he would quit the band then. They would replace him with eric at first, would record let it be and Abbey Road with him (the White Album wouldn't exist, george would also record a solo album soon after with his White Album songs, nit guilty, sour milk sea, circles and songs played during the get back/let it be sessions) after Abbey Road they would have broken up, because John had drunk in a swimming pool (brian jones didn't quit the rolling stones and were still their multi-instrumentalist although mick taylor would join them as a second guitarist)

I know this is going back a few months, but I'm just reading this for the first time.  This is the craziest alternate timeline ever.  Thank you for its sheer awesome weirdness.

E is for 'Ergent'.
27 September 2012
8.01am
Duke_of_Kirkcaldy
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SatanHimself said

GeorgeTSimpson said
I think John would have very few songs for the White Album and so I think paul would have recorded a solo album, which would have made john very angry and he would quit the band then. They would replace him with eric at first, would record let it be and Abbey Road with him (the White Album wouldn't exist, george would also record a solo album soon after with his White Album songs, nit guilty, sour milk sea, circles and songs played during the get back/let it be sessions) after Abbey Road they would have broken up, because John had drunk in a swimming pool (brian jones didn't quit the rolling stones and were still their multi-instrumentalist although mick taylor would join them as a second guitarist)

I know this is going back a few months, but I'm just reading this for the first time.  This is the craziest alternate timeline ever.  Thank you for its sheer awesome weirdness.

 

Well, I DO agree with him that John's somewhat diminished muse would've likely opened the door for George to contribute more of his own songs… so I guess that would be one positive thing to come out of the situation.  That might've staved off George's disillusionment within the group a little while longer.  At the very least, "Happiness Is A Warm Gun," "Julia," "Everybody's Got Something To Hide Except Me And My Monkey," "Revolution 9," "What's The New Mary Jane" (the experimental aspect of it, at least), "Don't Let Me Down," "Dig A Pony," "I Want You (She's So Heavy)," "The Ballad Of John And Yoko," and "Because" all never would have existed since they were all definitely Yoko-inspired.

27 September 2012
5.09pm
fabfouremily
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I think some of them that you have mentioned Duke_of_Kirkaldy would still have appeared but maybe in a slightly different way. How much of a muse was Yoko to songs like ''Julia''? It's not about Yoko, at least not on the surface. (John may have been thinking about her subconsciously during the composing of the song.)

I've heard so many bad things said about Yoko, and some of those things I agree with, but nobody can argue the fact that if it weren't for her then we wouldn't have so many songs that we all know and love.

''We're just knocked out. We heard about the sell out. You gotta get an album out, you owe it to the people. We're so happy we can hardly count.''

27 September 2012
5.20pm
meanmistermustard
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Ocean Child is a reference to Yoko in Julia, as in how much she was involved i dont know but some folk do see it as Johns song to his mother as he finds and begins to share a new life with his new love. That could be one of those reading too much in to it fan things.

"Well, probably we'll sell less records, less people'll go to see the film, we'll write less songs, and we'll all die of failure" (John Lennon 8/64)
27 September 2012
5.31pm
fabfouremily
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meanmistermustard said
Ocean Child is a reference to Yoko in Julia, as in how much she was involved i dont know but some folk do see it as Johns song to his mother as he finds and begins to share a new life with his new love. That could be one of those reading too much in to it fan things.

That's what I mean. Okay so ''ocean child'' is a reference to Yoko. The song would probably still have came out but that line just wouldn't be in it.

''We're just knocked out. We heard about the sell out. You gotta get an album out, you owe it to the people. We're so happy we can hardly count.''

1 October 2012
6.10am
linkjws
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I don't wonder about John meeting Yoko as much as I wonder about what would have happened had John made it to the recording of "Venus and Mars" by Wings in 1975. At the time Paul and John were on good terms from what I understand, and John was to fly to New Orleans but never made it.  I think I remember hearing or reading that Yoko said she had "found a cure" to John's smoking problem and he was to come back to New York immediately (of course, right before John was to reunite with Paul in a way).  And so ended the lost weekend…

3 October 2012
5.51am
frankdialogue
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linkjws said
I don't wonder about John meeting Yoko as much as I wonder about what would have happened had John made it to the recording of "Venus and Mars" by Wings in 1975. At the time Paul and John were on good terms from what I understand, and John was to fly to New Orleans but never made it.  I think I remember hearing or reading that Yoko said she had "found a cure" to John's smoking problem and he was to come back to New York immediately (of course, right before John was to reunite with Paul in a way).  And so ended the lost weekend…

 

Then John & Paul would have probably written and recorded together again…May Pang was all for it.

 

Yoko was a 'manouvering swine' who had some kind of 'psychic' hold over John, mostly for the negative…Yoko did many things to control John and insinuate her way into the Beatles circle that have still not been revealed due to business and PR reasons.

5 December 2012
9.42pm
thewordislove94
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As much as I dislike Yoko, she was an important figure in John's life. If they never met, John would've remained a bitter man in an unfulfilled marriage who would've died of an accidental drug overdose. Yoko helped John conquer his demons. He seemed very happy near the end of his life, and that was because of Yoko.

 

There's only one problem: SHE WAS ONE OF THE REASONS WHY THE BEATLES BROKE UP!

One more thing: If John never met Yoko, I would not be able to post this smiley!two-virgins

"The world is a very serious and, at times, very sad place - but at other times it is all such a joke."-George Harrison
7 December 2012
11.06pm
Linde
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It's very interesting to think and read about these theories. It's certain that a lot would've been different.

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