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History of Yoko screaming
8 January 2014
2.50am
Ahhh Girl
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meanmistermustard said

Ahhh Girl said
Riveting conversation.

meanmistermustard said

I'm one of the ones who believes they would have split in the early 80's.

Interesting thought to contemplate.

I haven't delved into my John Lennon Signature Box set that I got for Christmas yet. Will I be hearing her "art" on these cds?

Some of it is amongst the material of Some Time in New York City (what was an extra LP at the time of original release – a lovely addition too); Don't Worry Kyoko runs for 16 minutes, Au just over 8 minutes. Nothing like trying new music.a-hard-days-night-john-7ahdn_paul_01a-hard-days-night-paul-7

T'will be an eye-opening (or shall I say an ear-opening) experience. Hummm, or ear-splitting?

 

Can buy Joe love! Here's the link that explains how. http://www.beatlesbible.com/forum/getting-better/forum-changes/page-9/#p110183

 

8 January 2014
2.58am
Ahhh Girl
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Billy Rhythm said

[snip]

Maybe something like John's 'In My Life' would be a better example than a painting, he sings "there are places I remember" in the first-person, but the listener becomes the "I" in the song and thinks about their own "places" that they personally "remember".

I was thinking about this concept just the other day. I do this personalization with other singers, but when it comes to listening to Beatles music, I always just think of them and what they were thinking when they wrote/sang the song (like the song you mention here). Or when they sing a song like "Eight Days A Week," I can only imagine that is one of the Beatles singing it to a girl they are in love with. I can't see it as a song a guy would sing to another girl. I can do that with other singers, but not them. Perhaps one day I will gain some distance from them and do the personalization thing with their songs.?.? Perhaps I am just too much into a phase of learning about their history and their personalities.

Can buy Joe love! Here's the link that explains how. http://www.beatlesbible.com/forum/getting-better/forum-changes/page-9/#p110183

 

8 January 2014
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SirFrankieCrisp
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Johns face on the second video and then the awkward kiss he plants on Yoko's cheek just shows me that John know the record is not art but sh*t. His body language was twitchy and awkward like when you are having a project presented in class that you know you did a horrible job on and everyone in your class teacher included is judging you and you know it. I felt sorry for him honestly, as we say here in America at least he was whipped.

8 January 2014
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trcanberra
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^^^ Thanks mmm – I had forgotten I am lucky enough to have 2 versions of Don't Worry Kyoko to listen to still (as well as an early studio one on the Wedding Album)

8 January 2014
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trcanberra
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SirFrankieCrisp said
Johns face on the second video and then the awkward kiss he plants on Yoko's cheek just shows me that John know the record is not art but sh*t. His body language was twitchy and awkward like when you are having a project presented in class that you know you did a horrible job on and everyone in your class teacher included is judging you and you know it. I felt sorry for him honestly, as we say here in America at least he was whipped.

I thought the same when I saw his intro to her section of the Toronto concert on video a few weeks ago.

 

8 January 2014
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Yoko's music is brilliant.  It's a precursor of experimental post-punk free-form jams such as you hear sometimes with Sonic Youth--feedback, out-of-tune guitars, occasional screaming and nonsensical phrases….either you're into that kind of avant-garde thing or you're not, but you can't dismiss it as not being real music, or as evidence that Yoko had no talent.  If you dismiss it, you're just not understanding it.

And Don't Worry Kyoko is one of my favorite songs…it rocks really hard.

"This Beatles talk bores me to death." --John Lennon

8 January 2014
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trcanberra said

SirFrankieCrisp said
Johns face on the second video and then the awkward kiss he plants on Yoko's cheek just shows me that John know the record is not art but sh*t. His body language was twitchy and awkward like when you are having a project presented in class that you know you did a horrible job on and everyone in your class teacher included is judging you and you know it. I felt sorry for him honestly, as we say here in America at least he was whipped.

I thought the same when I saw his intro to her section of the Toronto concert on video a few weeks ago.

 

Again, on the Toronto concert, what John and Eric are doing with their guitars, creating the dissonance and feedback--they were way ahead of their time.  A lot of bands are copying that now.

"This Beatles talk bores me to death." --John Lennon

8 January 2014
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Also, the Yoko haters always focus on songs they can easily make fun of.  What about songs like Yang Yang or Walking on Thin Ice?  They are very good.  Walking on Thin Ice is one of my all-time favorites, especially John's guitar work.  It's among his most interesting.

 

 

"This Beatles talk bores me to death." --John Lennon

8 January 2014
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This is another song I can't get enough of. The album "Fly" is pure genius. Also, if I had to choose which "Plastic Ono Band" album was better, I'd go with Yoko.

"This Beatles talk bores me to death." --John Lennon

8 January 2014
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trcanberra
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Expert Textpert said
Yoko's music is brilliant.  It's a precursor of experimental post-punk free-form jams such as you hear sometimes with Sonic Youth--feedback, out-of-tune guitars, occasional screaming and nonsensical phrases….either you're into that kind of avant-garde thing or you're not, but you can't dismiss it as not being real music, or as evidence that Yoko had no talent.  If you dismiss it, you're just not understanding it.

And Don't Worry Kyoko is one of my favorite songs…it rocks really hard.

Hmm – real music – I reckon that 95% of the world would say it wasn't.  Not sure that part matters either way.  I just find 25 minutes of shrieks with little variation and the odd bit of feedback dull as dishwater.  I realise some don't – and great for you this is around to entertain you.  I have listened to it all at least twice, and they are the only pieces of 'music' out of my 1000 or so CD collection where I find myself looking at my watch and wondering how long is left to go.  The only part I find brilliant is how she managed to have us listen to all of this just because she hooked up with John (and yes, I even appreciate Sonic Youth and Neil Young's Arc CD).

Same goes of course for modern art.  Some find a piece of canvas coloured all red and named 'War' art – and since enough people think so it makes it so.  Still won't stop me calling it rubbish  – and I do that with very little that claims to be art.

 

8 January 2014
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^^ and ^^^ Oh – on some of what you said up there – I'm not a Yoko hater, I just dislike a significant proportion of her artistic output.  I agree re Eric and John at Toronto – some of the feedback was quite interesting – being a major Neil Young fan I am well used to loads of it – I just don't think (my own tastes) the squalling adds much to it.

8 January 2014
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TheOneBeatleManiac
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Expert Textpert said

Also, the Yoko haters always focus on songs they can easily make fun of.  What about songs like Yang Yang or Walking on Thin Ice?  They are very good.  Walking on Thin Ice is one of my all-time favorites, especially John's guitar work.  It's among his most interesting.

 

Yeah, Walking On Thin Ice is one of my favorites too, and John's last creative work ever, and one of his best. a-hard-days-night-john-5

In My Life, I Love You More.
8 January 2014
2.21pm
meanmistermustard
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I actually don't mind the feedback and everything else, i just can't stand the screaming, yelping, howling and the rest. Remove that (and it doesn't matter if its Yoko or anyone else) and i'll give it the time of day –  what all that shrieking adds to Hound Dog at the One to One Concert i'll never know. There is a great jam outtake from the Rolling Stones Rock and Roll Circus called Her Blues however.

As for Yoko's singing, well most of the time i find that she sounds like those little girls parents believe have great singing voices and make everyone listen to whilst the truth is they sound out of tune. Walking on Thin Ice is probably the best of it which from me isn't saying a lot.

I'm not a Yoko fan but its not because of her i dislike the music; i dislike Mick Hucknall (i find him to be slimy and creepy) but Simply Red had a few decent songs.

"Well, probably we'll sell less records, less people'll go to see the film, we'll write less songs, and we'll all die of failure" (John Lennon 8/64)
8 January 2014
2.47pm
Billy Rhythm
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Expert Textpert said
Yoko's music is brilliant.  It's a precursor of experimental post-punk free-form jams such as you hear sometimes with Sonic Youth--feedback, out-of-tune guitars, occasional screaming and nonsensical phrases….either you're into that kind of avant-garde thing or you're not, but you can't dismiss it as not being real music, or as evidence that Yoko had no talent.  If you dismiss it, you're just not understanding it.

And Don't Worry Kyoko is one of my favorite songs…it rocks really hard.

 

There's nothing "occasional" about Yoko's screaming in the experimental tracks discussed (especially 'Don't Worry Kyoko&#39a-hard-days-night-george-10, it's a constant noise throughout that's not very pleasant to the human ear and virtually unlistenable for most.  I remember one reviewer going so far to say that it sounds "like a severely disabled child being beaten repeatedly" which as cruel as it sounds, wasn't all that far off the mark really.

 

Expert Textpert said

  

Again, on the Toronto concert, what John and Eric are doing with their guitars, creating the dissonance and feedback--they were way ahead of their time.  A lot of bands are copying that now.

 

 

Sure, John's guitar sounds fantastic, the few times that you can actually hear it while Yoko drowns him out with the Banshee Wailing.

 

TheOneBeatleManiac said

 

Yeah, Walking On Thin Ice is one of my favorites too, and John's last creative work ever, and one of his best. a-hard-days-night-john-5

 

 

Again, I don't hear anybody complaining about John's experimental guitar work, I would've loved to have heard more of it.  Comparing 'Walking On Thin Ice' (which hit #1 on the UK's Dance Charts last year) to 'Don't Worry Kyoko (Mummy's Only Looking For Her Hand In The Snow)' musically is like comparing 'A Day In The Life' to one of those old school bell fire alarms.  The topic is about the 'History of Yoko screaming', and the OP's efforts to understand its nature, despite not particularly enjoying what they're hearing.  Yoko (and John) outgrew this style after kicking heroin which tells me enough about its inspiration, they BOTH began to tone it down after that and yes, Yoko came up with some interesting and eclectic songs too.

 

The bizarre and often irritating noise stemming from their early 1968-69 works had more of a purpose, in my opinion.  John had long been fed up with his "huggable" Beatle image, with Yoko, he set out to smash it down once and for all.  Almost as though, "here, you want some more 'Hard Day's Night'?  Pin me new 'Two Virgins' album to yer bedroom walls!"  or, "So yer Mum really digs 'When I'm Sixty-Four?  Play me new live recording of 'Cambridge 1969' for her!"  His 'White Album' songs are downright vicious at times, 'Happiness Is A Warm Gun', 'Yer Blues' or the very appropriate 'Everybody's Got Something To Hide Except For Me & My Monkey'.  Yoko was quite happy to show him a most effective way to burn the collarless jacket forever, and two years later in 1970?  "I was the Walrus, but now I'm John".  The "purpose" and driving force behind John & Yoko's "art" is so very clear and obvious that most miss the point of it…:-)  

8 January 2014
2.51pm
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trcanberra said
^ Wow – she is so full of her own importance.  I like Frost's response at that 36.00 minute mark about the famous spouse – how many people would give her the time of day if she was not married to John?  All very well for her to say she has important things of her own to say, so do I, but no one gives me time on a major TV show to say them.

The more of this sort of thing I see the more convinced I am that she just pursued John as a vehicle to get herself a larger stage.

True, but I might be inclined to give you time on a minor radio show to rectify it. Hey, media's media, right? a-hard-days-night-george-10

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8 January 2014
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wetsroosa said

trcanberra said
^ Wow – she is so full of her own importance.  I like Frost's response at that 36.00 minute mark about the famous spouse – how many people would give her the time of day if she was not married to John?  All very well for her to say she has important things of her own to say, so do I, but no one gives me time on a major TV show to say them.
The more of this sort of thing I see the more convinced I am that she just pursued John as a vehicle to get herself a larger stage.

True, but I might be inclined to give you time on a minor radio show to rectify it. Hey, media's media, right? a-hard-days-night-george-10

If you do can all of us here ask her questions? I'd love to see an "ask Yoko a question?" thread. I doubt many would get past her PR people tho.

 

"Well, probably we'll sell less records, less people'll go to see the film, we'll write less songs, and we'll all die of failure" (John Lennon 8/64)
8 January 2014
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Billy Rhythm said 

 The bizarre and often irritating noise stemming from their early 1968-69 works had more of a purpose, in my opinion.  John had long been fed up with his "huggable" Beatle image, with Yoko, he set out to smash it down once and for all.  Almost as though, "here, you want some more 'Hard Day's Night'?  Pin me new 'Two Virgins' album to yer bedroom walls!"  or, "So yer Mum really digs 'When I'm Sixty-Four?  Play me new live recording of 'Cambridge 1969' for her!"  His 'White Album' songs are downright vicious at times, 'Happiness Is A Warm Gun', 'Yer Blues' or the very appropriate 'Everybody's Got Something To Hide Except For Me & My Monkey'.  Yoko was quite happy to show him a most effective way to burn the collarless jacket forever, and two years later in 1970?  "I was the Walrus, but now I'm John".  The "purpose" and driving force behind John & Yoko's "art" is so very clear and obvious that most miss the point of it…:-)  

And it was no coincidence that once John was on his own without Yoko and started seeing May, that was the time period he was allowed to somewhat look back at his time as a Beatle with some fondness. He credited his three fellow Beatles on Walls and Bridges, did that Toot and a Snore session with Paul, and other happenings well documented on this forum… none of that was going on with Yoko. Granted, John would still felt bitterness about the whole breakup and whatnot even without Yoko adding fuel to the fire, but she did and all that you mentioned above was the end result. And to further add to it, look what happened when John went on his "Lost Weekend…"

John_Lennon_Paul_McCartney_lastphoto

You think that reunion's happening with the Yokster around?

"It's called Sex Panther by Odeon. It's illegal in nine countries. Yep, it's made with bits of real panther, so you know it's good."

8 January 2014
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wetsroosa
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meanmistermustard said

wetsroosa said

trcanberra said
^ Wow – she is so full of her own importance.  I like Frost's response at that 36.00 minute mark about the famous spouse – how many people would give her the time of day if she was not married to John?  All very well for her to say she has important things of her own to say, so do I, but no one gives me time on a major TV show to say them.
The more of this sort of thing I see the more convinced I am that she just pursued John as a vehicle to get herself a larger stage.

True, but I might be inclined to give you time on a minor radio show to rectify it. Hey, media's media, right? a-hard-days-night-george-10

If you do can all of us here ask her questions? I'd love to see an "ask Yoko a question?" thread. I doubt many would get past her PR people tho.

 

Now there's an episode… "This week, members of the Fab Forum ask Yoko the HARD HITTING questions… and I promptly get cease-and-desisted. Only on this week's Fab Files!"

"It's called Sex Panther by Odeon. It's illegal in nine countries. Yep, it's made with bits of real panther, so you know it's good."

8 January 2014
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wetsroosa said

meanmistermustard said

wetsroosa said

trcanberra said
^ Wow – she is so full of her own importance.  I like Frost's response at that 36.00 minute mark about the famous spouse – how many people would give her the time of day if she was not married to John?  All very well for her to say she has important things of her own to say, so do I, but no one gives me time on a major TV show to say them.
The more of this sort of thing I see the more convinced I am that she just pursued John as a vehicle to get herself a larger stage.

True, but I might be inclined to give you time on a minor radio show to rectify it. Hey, media's media, right? a-hard-days-night-george-10

If you do can all of us here ask her questions? I'd love to see an "ask Yoko a question?" thread. I doubt many would get past her PR people tho.

 

Now there's an episode… "This week, members of the Fab Forum ask Yoko the HARD HITTING questions… and I promptly get cease-and-desisted. Only on this week's Fab Files!"

What harm is there in asking "why do you persist on selling the johnandyoko myth which nearly everyone knows is nonsense?".

Going thru Gould's chapter on Yoko in "Can't Buy Me Love: The Beatles, Great Britain and America" it seems like whilst most of what she was involved in were exhibitions like "Cut Piece", Yoko did present "a concert of quasi-musical performance pieces, that were heavily influenced by John Cage"  in a "small recital recital theater adjoining Carnegie Hall" which wiki (admittedly not a great source) describes as featuring "radical experimental music and performances".

I had forgotten Yoko had been married twice before John. 

"Well, probably we'll sell less records, less people'll go to see the film, we'll write less songs, and we'll all die of failure" (John Lennon 8/64)
8 January 2014
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DrBeatle
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^yes, married twice, first to a Japanese musician who I think her parents forced her to marry, and then Tony Cox where they both basically used each other to further their own ends…hard to not see that the pattern repeated itself there for marriage #3…

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