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History of Yoko screaming
7 January 2014
1.55am
trcanberra
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I'm just having my 2nd listen of Two Virgins and need to do something to keep me awake - no - Yoko's shrieks are not enough :)

So, I'm wondering what their history with John is.  Any of the following, or something else?:

  1. She had done it in public before and John was prepared
  2. She just said something like "before we make love I'm going to shriek randomly and tunelessly to get you in the mood"
  3. They decided to record some avant garde music and sorted it out beforehand and then this album was its first expression

Also, anyone know what John thought of it when he first heard it?

7 January 2014
2.52am
trcanberra
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Just got to the bit where Yoko starts another bit of whatever it is she does, and John says "That's right dear, spit it up" in a deadpan tone :)

7 January 2014
3.04am
WETSRoosa
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trcanberra said

  1. She just said something like "before we make love I'm going to shriek randomly and tunelessly to get you in the mood"

Well, we all have our fetishes, I guess. ahdn_paul_01

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7 January 2014
2.54pm
DrBeatle
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All I can remember is when I was playing the Live Peace in Toronto album with my 4 kids in the room and we were all digging it. But when it got to the last song (Don't Worry, Kyoko) which is basically 18 minutes of Yoko screeching, my son (4 years old) said "Dad, can you turn this off? It hurts my ears." :lol:

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7 January 2014
3.31pm
meanmistermustard
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Wasn't part of her routine before meeting John to warble, shriek and yelp on stage? Yoko's back-story is in Jonathan Gould's 'Can't Buy Me Love: The Beatles, Britain, and America', if no one else answers i'll dig it out later and see if its mentioned in there.

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7 January 2014
3.56pm
DrBeatle
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meanmistermustard said
Wasn't part of her routine before meeting John to warble, shriek and yelp on stage? Yoko's back-story is in Jonathan Gould's 'Can't Buy Me Love: The Beatles, Britain, and America', if no one else answers i'll dig it out later and see if its mentioned in there.

Probably. She did all those weird performance "art" things, why not shriek. That's music, right? RIGHT? :lol:

 

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7 January 2014
4.22pm
Billy Rhythm
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DrBeatle said
All I can remember is when I was playing the Live Peace in Toronto album with my 4 kids in the room and we were all digging it. But when it got to the last song (Don't Worry, Kyoko) which is basically 18 minutes of Yoko screeching, my son (4 years old) said "Dad, can you turn this off? It hurts my ears." :lol:

 

An ironic title, 'Don't Worry Kyoko (Mummy's Only Looking For Her Hand In The Snow)', considering that her own daughter likely had the same reaction.  The musicians (except John) usually all walked off of the stage (and likely left the building too!) when she started off, ever notice how this was always left for the end of the night?  They should've opened with it!  In all seriousness, Yoko did this stuff for attention, not much different than when a child throws an extended tantrum when they feel that they're not getting enough of the spotlight.  She knew exactly what she was doing, after the Toronto 1969 show, most people weren't talking about the fantastic rendition of 'Yer Blues' that the band played on the way home, most of them were talking about Yoko's "song", any publicity is good publicity, right?...:-)

7 January 2014
4.45pm
DrBeatle
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^sure, good points. But if that's the case (and it may be, who knows...Yoko is one weird person), then she should have shut up all those years about all the abuse she got from people about her "art." If she was doing stuff to wind people up and get attention, and then she got that attention (albeit negative), then she has no right to complain. She has a right to perform her "art" but we all have a right to tell her how shit it is, too.

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7 January 2014
10.17pm
Billy Rhythm
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DrBeatle said
she should have shut up all those years about all the abuse she got from people about her "art." If she was doing stuff to wind people up and get attention, and then she got that attention (albeit negative), then she has no right to complain. She has a right to perform her "art" but we all have a right to tell her how shit it is, too.

 

Not sure if you've seen this show of John & Yoko's when they appeared on the 'David Frost Show' from January 1972, but there's a few moments that are worth pointing out that demonstrate very effectively Yoko's struggles and efforts to keep the spotlight on her instead of John.  It's very evident early on in this show that a deal was struck to have a show dedicated to Yoko, and probably the only reason David Frost (or his production team) even agreed to it was if John were to also personally make an appearance.  David Frost, bless him, also makes no bones about letting Yoko know who exactly is in charge of the show on a few occasions.

 

Of note:

 

1)  At 4:43 of the video, immediately after David Peel's rousing opening that John & Yoko both play on, John Lennon attempts to "exit stage left" (literally!) as likely instructed by Yoko, before David Frost directs him back to "come take a bow".

 

2)  After Yoko successfully establishes early on that it's her turn to have the spotlight during some one on one with Frost, John performs 'Attica State' with some friends (probably part of Frost's "agreement" with Yoko) before David cleverly situates himself inbetween John & Yoko at 21:25 of the video, pay close attention to how uncomfortable Yoko becomes as David sits inbetween them and ignores her instructions (off-mic) directing on where to go next.  John shortly after this actually goes along with David Frost's invitation he extends to a couple of members in the audience to come and debate with John about the song he just sang and watch how Yoko immediately slides over next to John to give him an ear full after David Frost stands back up at 22:05.

 

3)  Yoko attempts again to get David's attention at the 22:30 mark, this time with the microphone as he continues to take charge of his show, this time Yoko caves in and plays along.  The best part is when Yoko resumes her one on one with David at the 36:01 mark, after the lively debate and further performances, where Yoko let's David know that she's "a bit angry" with what just transpired.  Mr. Frost proceeds to absolutely roast her to the audience's delight, was her treatment on this show justified?

 

 

I pointed out the relevant information to the point of Yoko wanting more attention, but I encourage anyone to watch the entire show for it's very good, including David Peel's opening and closing...:-)

7 January 2014
10.34pm
trcanberra
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^ Wow - she is so full of her own importance.  I like Frost's response at that 36.00 minute mark about the famous spouse - how many people would give her the time of day if she was not married to John?  All very well for her to say she has important things of her own to say, so do I, but no one gives me time on a major TV show to say them.

The more of this sort of thing I see the more convinced I am that she just pursued John as a vehicle to get herself a larger stage.

7 January 2014
10.47pm
meanmistermustard
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I listen to Yoko and my word she talks so much shit and gives me a headache. I want to hit the off switch immediately. And David Frost was a total legend.

I'm more and more coming to the belief that whereas John needed, or thought he needed Yoko on a personal level and probably did truly love her, Yoko needed John on a professional level. That their relationship at the beginning was a madly intense lust that burned for a year or two very brightly, John throwing himself into the madness of Yoko's "art", and then began to fad. They then split (Yoko's doing), John going off the rails before beginning to get himself sorting out with May whereas Yoko found that all the doors and privileges that being an ex-Beatles wife brought were gone. On this discovery she calls him back and John went. (A simplistic overview)

I'm one of the ones who believes they would have split in the early 80's.

 

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7 January 2014
11.39pm
Billy Rhythm
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meanmistermustard said
David Frost was a total legend.
 

 

I agree wholeheartedly, I'd also put Dick Cavett into the same class, although they both had completely different styles.  Here's another interview by David Frost on his show with John & Yoko from 1969.  Watch his reaction after dropping the needle on his phonograph at 6:00 of the video during 'Cambridge 1969' from John & Yoko's 'Life With The Lions (Unfinished Music No. 2)' album, his facial expressions during John's response to "What is that saying to us John?" are priceless, they mirror the bewilderment of the viewer trying to follow John's words here....:-)

 

 

 

 

   

8 January 2014
12.08am
meanmistermustard
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I've always found that response of "it's saying anything you want it to say" is a total cop-out of an answer.

And playing record players and having to manually skip to other parts of the song is such a strange sight nowadays.

Don’t make your love suffer insecurities, trade the baggage of self to set another one free. ('Paper Skin' - Kendall Payne)
8 January 2014
12.33am
trcanberra
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meanmistermustard said
I've always found that response of "it's saying anything you want it to say" is a total cop-out of an answer.

And playing record players and having to manually skip to other parts of the song is such a strange sight nowadays.

aka "I was so stoned at the time that I can't remember what I was thinking when I wrote it" :)

 

8 January 2014
1.06am
Billy Rhythm
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meanmistermustard said
I've always found that response of "it's saying anything you want it to say" is a total cop-out of an answer.
 

I get the drift of it though, it's actually what defines great art.  Great art transcends language, it's why everyone from many different cultures (languages) can all look at the same painting and derive something that's personal to them from it.  Maybe something like John's 'In My Life' would be a better example than a painting, he sings "there are places I remember" in the first-person, but the listener becomes the "I" in the song and thinks about their own "places" that they personally "remember".  The difference here though is, does anyone else but John & Yoko themselves actually take away with them something that's highly personal from something like 'Cambridge 1969'?  I've tried to warm to this stuff and actually like certain bits, but it does nothing for me personally like 'In My Life' does, yes John & Yoko's recordings can be classified as "art", but it's far removed from being "great art", in my opinion.

 

Another factor that must be considered when discussing John & Yoko's "art" (or 'History of Yoko screaming&#39a-hard-days-night-george-10, is that they were both addicted to heroin dating back to 1968, pretty much the moment that they first got together while Cynthia was away on holiday, and it's something that's downplayed a lot in most volumes.  The "art" must've sounded especially good and meant something very meaningful to them because of this, and it's no small coincidence that once they kicked the habit for good ('Cold Turkey&#39a-hard-days-night-george-10, John & Yoko's "art" began to resemble music again and got less and less experimental, Yoko's B-Side to 'Instant Karma' ('Who Has Seen The Wind', I think) was the first time that I actually heard her "sing a song", and it doesn't sound half bad really, much more "digestible" than 'Cambridge 1969' anyway.  Heroin also supplied Yoko with a sure way means to control John (it was she who introduced it to him), and its use wasn't something so easily tolerated by anyone, John had to hide his new preferred substance from just about everyone and secretly becoming an addict with Yoko was one of the biggest bonds that they shared (for all the wrong reasons, including the miscarriage) during their early days, and does explain the fact that literally no one but them could relate to their "art" during this time, it's because no one could relate to them or their lifestyle either....:-) 

8 January 2014
1.09am
trcanberra
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^ Some interesting points there.  I was thinking while listening to Unfinished Music No. 2 yesterday that No Bed For Beatle John was actually enjoyable - but then it was in contrast to the 26 minutes of shrieking that preceded it.  I also like the short bonus track Song for John.

8 January 2014
1.43am
Ahhh Girl
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Riveting conversation.

meanmistermustard said

I'm one of the ones who believes they would have split in the early 80's.

Interesting thought to contemplate.

I haven't delved into my John Lennon Signature Box set that I got for Christmas yet. Will I be hearing her "art" on these cds?

8 January 2014
2.23am
trcanberra
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Ahhh Girl said
Riveting conversation.

meanmistermustard said

I'm one of the ones who believes they would have split in the early 80's.

Interesting thought to contemplate.

I haven't delved into my John Lennon Signature Box set that I got for Christmas yet. Will I be hearing her "art" on these cds?

Just a little - you are mostly 'safe' with that lot.  The ones to watch out for are:

  • Unfinished Music No. 1: Two Virgins
  • Unfinished Music No.2: Life With The Lions
  • The Wedding Album (only if the thought of John & Yoko saying 'John / Yoko' for 20-odd minutes doesn't appeal)
  • Live Peace in Toronto (last 2 tracks)
  • The 'bonus' album in Some Time In New York City - so you will hear a bit of it there.

 

8 January 2014
2.29am
Ahhh Girl
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Thank you, trcanberra. I was getting a bit leery of listening to them. I'll heed your cautions.

8 January 2014
2.29am
meanmistermustard
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Ahhh Girl said
Riveting conversation.

meanmistermustard said

I'm one of the ones who believes they would have split in the early 80's.

Interesting thought to contemplate.

I haven't delved into my John Lennon Signature Box set that I got for Christmas yet. Will I be hearing her "art" on these cds?

Some of it is amongst the material of Some Time in New York City (what was an extra LP at the time of original release - a lovely addition too); Don't Worry Kyoko runs for 16 minutes, Au just over 8 minutes. Nothing like trying new music.a-hard-days-night-john-7ahdn_paul_01a-hard-days-night-paul-7

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