Did Yoko love John? | Page 8 | John Lennon | Fab forum

Please consider registering
Guest

Log In Register

Register | Lost password?
Advanced Search

— Forum Scope —

  
 

— Match —

   

— Forum Options —

   

Minimum search word length is 4 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters

Did Yoko love John?
5 February 2014
7.31pm
Musketeer Gripweed (kezron9)
Coldspring Harbor, NY
Carnegie Hall
Forum Posts: 242
Member Since:
17 January 2014
Offline
141

I would also love to know what was said in the control room on the night he was killed that Jack Douglas had to erase. Apparently he phoned home telling his family he was coming home. Would love to know what that was about.

5 February 2014
7.45pm
Billy Rhythm
Candlestick Park
Forum Posts: 504
Member Since:
22 December 2013
Offline
142

kezron9 said
I would also love to know what was said in the control room on the night he was killed that Jack Douglas had to erase. Apparently he phoned home telling his family he was coming home. Would love to know what that was about.

 

Whatever was said (if this claim is even actually true), it was a personal phone call that's nobody's business but their own.  People who are famous have the same privacy rights as anybody else, including being able to have a telephone conversation without them being recorded and released to the public...:-)

5 February 2014
7.49pm
Expert Textpert
In bed.
Apple rooftop
Forum Posts: 1246
Member Since:
18 April 2013
Offline
143

kezron9 said

Billy Rhythm said One thing that nobody can really refute is the fact that John & Yoko's marriage survived much adversity over the years which further strengthened the undeniable bond between them, even if the claims of them going through a rough time in John's last years are in fact true, I would think that it would've been more likely that they'd moved past it and become even closer as a result.  Reading into John singing about "starting over" because of some desire to make a clean break from Yoko, or a "divorce", is nonsense.  He says "when I see you darling, it's like we BOTH are falling in love again, it'll be just like starting over"...:-) 

You have totally twisted my words. I was saying he wanted to start over with her...But why start over? because they didn't have a great relationship. I wasn't referring to him leaving her, but many sources claim she was going to leave him but then he decided to launch a comeback. Also the Lost weekend, apparently both had ongoing affairs. This website mentions Yoko was also dating some guitarist during the lost weekend, which I was surprised I hadn't heard. Apparently he never stops seeing May. The BOTH line cant be used to support her loving him.Written by John its what he wanted and hoped for in my opinion.John knew how to manipulate the media which they both did.  I look at Johns I'm Losing You  followed by Yoko's I'm Moving On as some sort of supporting evidence. Also my friend knows Fred Seaman he's a good guy his account is very accurate. My friend never new he even worked for John. The book was also published in 1992 so he didn't hop on the 80's bandwagon. He was crushed when he was killed. I am and never said she didn't love him she did, but there is enough evidence to cast doubt in my mind if to question if she did in 1980.
 
*I'm just sitting here doing time*

 

I will admit that reading Seaman's book caused me to have my doubts (thus starting this thread).  That said, John was a prisoner of his own will.  No one forced him to stay in his bed in The Dakota listening to the radio and reading magazines.

Seaman does paint a picture that is obviously skewed by his own perception of the events that took place.  For instance, he obviously wanted John to be out recording music and making albums, and saw him living a kind of creative death.  But John described himself as part "performing flea" and part "monk."  I personally identify with the monk side of John's character and The Dakota period is the most fascinating period to me.  John was doing what he wanted to.

I think he would rather have just "hung out" around the house than taking on all the business which Yoko did.  Granted, Yoko did use the business as a way to isolate herself and avoid contact with John and the family.  But I think that this is probably in part due to her resurging heroin addiction, which she didn't want John to know about (and apparently he never did know).

Also, it is not uncommon for couples to go through periods where one or the other is not interested in a "roll in the hay," so I don't think this in and of itself is evidence that Yoko was done with the relationship.

Not to mention that one (or both?) of the men she was emotionally interested in at that time was probably gay...so the whole "Yoko saw someone immediately after John's death" argument doesn't hold weight either, especially when you take into account that John saw someone too.  As I recall, his reaction when he found out about Yoko's affair was "We all have our flings."

 

"This Beatles talk bores me to death." --John Lennon

5 February 2014
8.16pm
Billy Rhythm
Candlestick Park
Forum Posts: 504
Member Since:
22 December 2013
Offline
144

Expert Textpert said 
he obviously wanted John to be out recording music and making albums, and saw him living a kind of creative death.  But John described himself as part "performing flea" and part "monk."  I personally identify with the monk side of John's character and The Dakota period is the most fascinating period to me.  John was doing what he wanted to.
 
  

This is a common denominator amongst those who make out their marital problems to be anymore than the same ups and downs that all marriages go through.  Many on the outside looking in wanted John to be the "John" that he used to be before he'd met Yoko, which I don't think that John himself wanted to be anymore, even if there were parts of him that missed certain aspects of those days.  Since we're using 'Double Fantasy' lyrics for "evidence", John pretty much states where he is at quite clearly:

 

Don't you miss the big time boy you're no longer on the ball?

I'm just sitting here watching the wheels go round and round
I really love to watch them roll
No longer riding on the merry-go-round
I just had to let it go

 

While John's thoughts and feelings are quite clear, Yoko's on the other hand aren't so easily translated.  While the lyrics to 'I'm Moving On' may indeed seem on the surface to be the vows of a woman who's genuinely declared that she's "moving on", they could just as easily be interpreted as someone who's getting desperate to regain control of someone by "threatening" to leave but had no intention of ever doing it, so who really knows?  In my experiences in life, when someone truly means that they're "moving on" they just do it and don't feel the need to tell the person they're leaving that they're going to...:-)

5 February 2014
8.29pm
Musketeer Gripweed (kezron9)
Coldspring Harbor, NY
Carnegie Hall
Forum Posts: 242
Member Since:
17 January 2014
Offline
145

Billy Rhythm said

kezron9 said I would also love to know what was said in the control room on the night he was killed that Jack Douglas had to erase. Apparently he phoned home telling his family he was coming home. Would love to know what that was about.

 
Whatever was said (if this claim is even actually true), it was a personal phone call that's nobody's business but their own.  People who are famous have the same privacy rights as anybody else, including being able to have a telephone conversation without them being recorded and released to the public...:-)

Phone call? This was said in the control room in person. They recorded everything done during the sessions even in the control room on John and Yokos request. True, yes Jack Douglas confirmed this and confirmed he deleted the tapes in an interview. Do some research why don't ya? I understand privacy, but this was done with their knowledge. They recorded everything so conversations were caught on tape.Your twisting Words again. It wasn't some phone call Jack Douglass recorded....Jack and Yoko listened to all the tapes as a tribute and goodbye to John after his death.... Jack Douglas deleted them to never be heard by some one maybe Yoko. I am making an educated guess it was something Jackdidn't  want Yoko to hear. It also raises an eye brow that they prolly have audio of him doing drugs and cocaine, but that there was one thing he had to delete. I dont want to hear it just curious as to why Jack was compelled to delete only this conversation. 

5 February 2014
8.40pm
Billy Rhythm
Candlestick Park
Forum Posts: 504
Member Since:
22 December 2013
Offline
146

kezron9 said
I would also love to know what was said in the control room on the night he was killed that Jack Douglas had to erase. Apparently he phoned home telling his family he was coming home. Would love to know what that was about.

How is this "twisting words"?  Immediately after you say "Apparently (this implies that it might not have happened) he phoned home (does this answer your "Phone call?" question) telling his family he was coming home" you remark "Would love to know what that was about", and then claim that I'm "twisting words"?!  While afterwards stating that you "understand privacy"?  Any credibility of your sources has to be seriously challenged after your "they prolly have audio of him doing drugs and cocaine" comment, I need to do "some research"?  Thanks for the laugh...:-)

5 February 2014
8.48pm
Musketeer Gripweed (kezron9)
Coldspring Harbor, NY
Carnegie Hall
Forum Posts: 242
Member Since:
17 January 2014
Offline
147

Expert Textpert I agree that John was a prisoner of himself. Very depressing period. John just used being a house husband as an excuse to cover the truth. Which is definitely what went on in there marriage also. I dont know why John lied and claims that he wrote 22 song in bermuda in a creative spell, maybe to juice up the album release. For whatever reason he lost motivation to release his work. He finished up the songs in Bermuda but most were already done. He wasnt really living, which I imagine caused huge marital problems being depressed, around all the time, and not working. I wonder if he was secretly on H too? Sounds like a herion induced haze I would know : /. 

Fred was in tough situation. Watching the greatest musician rotting away. Hard not to root for him to make music. I dont think John wanted to be a full time monk, I think he had lost his motivational muse to release music. I dont think he was getting the support he needed being sent on random trips to Japan when all he wanted was land and to sail. Also I know the Coney's who charted the Bermuda sail. Their marina is in Coldspring Harbor my hometime. Havent asked them about it since John ditched them lol, but will grow a pair to do it sometime soon. He also had a house around here.

Maybe him getting back in the studio saved him and their marriage, but if that dark period was to continue there is no doubt in my mind Yoko most likely would of left. Apparently she had had enough in the beginning of the summer of 1980, which I don't blame her. 

5 February 2014
9.41pm
IveJustSeenAFaceo
Somewhere other than where you are.
Apple rooftop
Forum Posts: 2666
Member Since:
1 November 2013
Offline
148

All right, All right, stop stop stop. Don't let this turn bad. Calm down and please try to have a normal discussion.

(This signature brought to you by Spaghetti Tuesdays. Occurring on Wednesdays since 2013.)

5 February 2014
9.48pm
Ron Nasty
"Where have you been?" "I'm not telling you..."
Apple rooftop
Forum Posts: 3329
Member Since:
17 December 2012
Offline
149

IveJustSeenAFaceo said
All right, All right, stop stop stop. Don't let this turn bad. Calm down and please try to have a normal discussion.

I'm glad somebody said that. I was thinking of doing so. This forum has few rules, but the third reads, "Be polite and respectful to one another. It's fine to disagree with someone, but don't be abusive."

 

"I only said we were bigger than Rod... and now there's all this!" Ron Nasty
5 February 2014
10.32pm
Musketeer Gripweed (kezron9)
Coldspring Harbor, NY
Carnegie Hall
Forum Posts: 242
Member Since:
17 January 2014
Offline
150

Ohh but I always play nice. This dog only bites when kicked. I think John always loved Yoko. Some information I have stumbled upon has cast doubt if she loved him during his dark period in 1980. We'll never know, but one thing I do love is John, the Beatles and music.  Life is very short, and there's no time for fussing and fighting my friends.

 

 

 

5 February 2014
10.44pm
Billy Rhythm
Candlestick Park
Forum Posts: 504
Member Since:
22 December 2013
Offline
151

kezron9 said
my friend knows Fred Seaman he's a good guy his account is very accurate

Forgive me if this doesn't entice me to wanna do more "research" on the subject.  Surely you must understand that a friend of a friend's endorsement rings a little hollow to most.  This is the same source that verifies the "well known" fact of John's cocaine use?  John's late interviews feature a clear thoughtful John along with heartwarming footage of him strolling alongside Yoko in Central Park during the Autumn of 1980, hardly appropriate behaviour of a man blowing his brains out on coke or a couple who's marriage is on the rocks:

 

 

These first-hand accounts are what I prefer to base my opinions on, but that's just me...:-)
 

6 February 2014
12.45am
meanmistermustard
Moderator



Forum Posts: 10925
Member Since:
1 May 2011
Offline
152

C'mon guys. Two people have asked nicely for peace on the thread so let it go and walk away before the thread is closed to everyone.

Don’t make your love suffer insecurities, trade the baggage of self to set another one free. ('Paper Skin' - Kendall Payne)
6 February 2014
2.02am
Ron Nasty
"Where have you been?" "I'm not telling you..."
Apple rooftop
Forum Posts: 3329
Member Since:
17 December 2012
Offline
153

kezron9, I remind you again of the third rule of this forum. Just because you deleted the post that I'veJustSeenAFaceo and I objected to does not mean that you did not respond to the post you found "ridiculous", though it does show that Billy Rhythm chose not to respond to it, as I am aware that he saw it, but chose to leave I'veJustSeenAFaceo's and my responses as the reply to that post.

You are discrediting yourself, in my opinion, by your refusal to accept others have the right to disagree. I am happy to admit that I hold no truck with the Seaman/Green stories. Even Robert Rosen, who Seaman approached within days of Lennon's murder to transcribe stolen material now feels he was lied to by him, and has a different point of view to Seaman about the diary recordings.

I may no longer be a moderator, and so am only talking as a forum member, but as I have previously said, you are becoming too personal and abusive. While you may have deleted one of the posts, three forum members have felt the need to respond to how you how chosen to respond to things within the past few hours.

I haven't seen BR say any more than your view that Fred is good guy is something he doesn't agree with. Well, to be honest, nor do I. The only reason his "revelations" came out so late was because he spent most of the '80s getting his ar*e sued for theft. He is about as disreputable a witness that I can think of. No reflection on you, you obviously have a different point of view, and you're allowed it.

We are asked to respect differing views here, even those we disagree with. So, please, I ask you to look at the forum rules and to start abiding by them.

"I only said we were bigger than Rod... and now there's all this!" Ron Nasty
6 February 2014
2.20am
Lennonista
Los Angeles
The Star-Club
Forum Posts: 68
Member Since:
24 April 2013
Offline
154

Expert Textpert said
No one forced him to stay in his bed in The Dakota listening to the radio and reading magazines.
 

If you read old Beatle fanzines, you'd discover that there were quite a few Dakota Scruffs (they didn't call themselves that, but you catch my drift) who saw John out and about quite often from Sean's birth until 1980. Their accounts tell a very different tale from what Seamen/Green/Goldman/Giuiliano (and even May Pang) would have you believe. They described John as friendly and fit, looking happy and spending quite a bit of time with Julian when he was on school holidays.

I highly recommend to those of you who are on the fence about the Dakota Days to keep an open mind and try that idea on for size.

6 February 2014
2.31am
LongHairedLady
coming in through the bathroom window
Apple rooftop
Forum Posts: 2090
Member Since:
17 January 2013
Offline
155

Like I said on the "gay leanings" thread...  WTF is going on with all these arguments some of the newer members keep starting?  Be nice!  PEACE AND LOVE!  It's a freaking Beatles forum!  

"Please don't bring your banjo back, I know where it's been..  I wasn't hardly gone a day, when it became the scene..  Banjos!  Banjos!  All the time, I can't forget that tune..  and if I ever see another banjo, I'm going out and buy a big balloon!"

 

6 February 2014
2.38am
IveJustSeenAFaceo
Somewhere other than where you are.
Apple rooftop
Forum Posts: 2666
Member Since:
1 November 2013
Offline
156

LongHairedLady said
Like I said on the "gay leanings" thread...  WTF is going on with all these arguments some of the newer members keep starting?  Be nice!  PEACE AND LOVE!  It's a freaking Beatles forum!  

My Ringo thread too. But to quote Ringo (and LHL) "Peace and Love, Peace and Love"

(This signature brought to you by Spaghetti Tuesdays. Occurring on Wednesdays since 2013.)

6 February 2014
2.39am
Ahhh Girl
sailing on a winedark open sea
Moderator


Forum Posts: 5895
Member Since:
20 August 2013
Offline
157

I just wish there could be a one-post summary with a "yes" section and a "no" section that lays out the thoughts for each point of view. Just a NICE, concise side-by-side comparison that takes emotion out of the equation that people could use to form their own opinion.

If that is pie-in-the-sky thinking, just smash a lemon one in my face.

I'd like to see a post like that for the "Did John have gay leanings?" thread. Again, if that is pie-in-the-sky talk, make this one chocolate.

6 February 2014
2.43am
Musketeer Gripweed (kezron9)
Coldspring Harbor, NY
Carnegie Hall
Forum Posts: 242
Member Since:
17 January 2014
Offline
158

kezron9 said
Ohh but I always play nice. This dog only bites when kicked. I think John always loved Yoko. Some information I have stumbled upon has cast doubt if she loved him during his dark period in 1980. We'll never know, but one thing I do love is John, the Beatles and music.  Life is very short, and there's no time for fussing and fighting my friends.
 
 
 

Hey MJA, I appreciate the advice I am new to the forum. Just an FYI I deleted the post to try and stop the argument for the sake of the thread. I am an avid fan and love discussing anything Beatles you will see that from my other posts on different topics. I attempted to make a peace offering and state my final opinion. Which lead to an old quote pulled up and a counter argument? So Billy is allowed to quote my post and disagree, but if I rebuttal, for why I believe that I am in the wrong? It is obviously an argument that got out of hand. But it takes two to tango. I've said my peace I am out of this thread.

6 February 2014
2.44am
Musketeer Gripweed (kezron9)
Coldspring Harbor, NY
Carnegie Hall
Forum Posts: 242
Member Since:
17 January 2014
Offline
159

Ahhh Girl said
I just wish there could be a one-post summary with a "yes" section and a "no" section that lays out the thoughts for each point of view. Just a NICE, concise side-by-side comparison that takes emotion out of the equation that people could use to form their own opinion.
If that is pie-in-the-sky thinking, just smash a lemon one in my face.
I'd like to see a post like that for the "Did John have gay leanings?" thread. Again, if that is pie-in-the-sky talk, make this one chocolate.

GOOD IDEA.

6 February 2014
2.45am
WETSRoosa
Mountains of East Tennessee
Apple rooftop
Forum Posts: 1112
Member Since:
6 August 2013
Offline
160

"There's no such thing as bad student... only bad teacher."
Forum Timezone: Europe/London

Most Users Ever Online: 597

Currently Online: Sugarplum fairy
62 Guest(s)

Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)

Top Posters:

meanmistermustard: 10925

mr. Sun king coming together: 6872

Ahhh Girl: 5895

parlance: 5755

Annadog40: 5170

Zig: 4715

Mr. Kite: 4682

mithveaen: 4645

Ron Nasty: 3329

fabfouremily: 2949

Member Stats:

Guest Posters: 88

Members: 2761

Moderators: 4

Admins: 2

Forum Stats:

Groups: 3

Forums: 34

Topics: 3204

Posts: 144307

Newest Members: hark.theangelscome, harktheangelscome, Paperback Writer 1971, kristen12356, glaszwiebel

Moderators: Ahhh Girl: 5895, meanmistermustard: 10925, Zig: 4715, Joe: 3601

Administrators: Joe: 3601, Ellie: 1

Members Birthdays
Today: Mistermark21
Upcoming: None