Did Yoko love John? | Page 3 | Fab Forum

Introducing the inaugural Fab Forum February Fundraiser! Click here for more details.

Please consider registering
Guest

sp_LogInOut Log In sp_Registration Register

Register | Lost password?
Advanced Search

— Forum Scope —






— Match —





— Forum Options —





Minimum search word length is 4 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters

sp_Feed sp_TopicIcon
Did Yoko love John?
No permission to create posts
24 September 2013
5.28pm
mccartneyalarm
Carnegie Hall
Forum Posts: 243
Member Since:
9 July 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

You are absolutely right. She called him incessantly and it drove John and May crazy. Yoko is a control freak. She needs to control everyone and everything (which is why she is addicted to numerology and psychics...she uses them to help her control her environment and relationships). The calls were part of her control tactics. She would tell them they could not go here or there because of how it would look. She'd complain if she saw something in the press she didn't like. And, she'd demand to keep up with what was going on with John even though she didn't want him back in her world quite yet. She was never going to leave John. She really could never do that. But, she could control where he was and what he was doing. She did that in the last years of John's life as well. She bought the house on Long Island for John so he could go there for summers, but she had no intentions of going there except for wuickie visits. Same thing with John's trip to Bermuda. (And the house in Florida, too). She let him go there on his own and kept telling him she'd come down, but would have a million excuses why she couldn't come. She had to keep her rope around him, but she didn't want him to be with her physically. I think if Yoko would have told John half-way through the "lost weekend" that he could come home, he'd have gone in a heartbeat...because he wanted her because he couldn't have her (at least not in the way it was in the early days of John and Yoko). Does that make sense?

"And in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make."

24 September 2013
9.04pm
mccartneyalarm
Carnegie Hall
Forum Posts: 243
Member Since:
9 July 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I think you've all nailed it...neither John nor Yoko were/are capable of Real Love. But, based on Yoko's other relationships with men, with her children, and her behavior in general, I sincerely doubt she is capable of loving anyone but herself (which she indeed does have down to a science). John loved Stu and Paul (I believe he did anyway) and the other guys in Quarrymen & the Beatles. Yoko could never scare up those emotions for anyone. I think John had trouble understanding and relating to women because of the mixed signals he got from Julia and the role model he had in Auntie Mimi. John absolutely had deep emotions based on the songs he wrote. Look at Yoko's compositions...haven't heard one of them that is a "love song"(though I am not a scholar of Yoko's music by any means). Why do you think it is so essential for Yoko to keep going the "myth" of John and Yoko after all these years? Do you think it is to protect the "brand" as it were? Just curious.

"And in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make."

24 September 2013
9.24pm
Avatar
Expert Textpert
In bed.
Apple rooftop
Forum Posts: 2411
Member Since:
18 April 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

mccartneyalarm said
I think you've all nailed it...neither John nor Yoko were/are capable of
Real Love. But, based on Yoko's other relationships with men, with her children, and her behavior in general, I sincerely doubt she is capable of loving anyone but herself (which she indeed does have down to a science). John loved Stu and Paul (I believe he did anyway) and the other guys in Quarrymen & the Beatles. Yoko could never scare up those emotions for anyone. I think John had trouble understanding and relating to women because of the mixed signals he got from Julia and the role model he had in Auntie Mimi. John absolutely had deep emotions based on the songs he wrote. Look at Yoko's compositions...haven't heard one of them that is a "love song"(though I am not a scholar of Yoko's music by any means). Why do you think it is so essential for Yoko to keep going the "myth" of John and Yoko after all these years? Do you think it is to protect the "brand" as it were? Just curious.

I'm sure a lot of people here would say it's just to protect the brand and make money, or whatever.  And there is really nothing cynical about that, because that is her job as the person who represents John, right? She was his wife when he died, so it's not like she can really escape it. She often says that once you are a Beatle's wife, you never escape. Not to mention that she is in a creative partnership with Sean.  I wonder what Sean would say if she just said, "To hell with your father."  I think she loved/loves John, in her own way.

"This Beatles talk bores me to death." --John Lennon
25 September 2013
8.25am
Avatar
Ron Nasty
"Where have you been?" "I'm not telling you..."
Apple rooftop
Forum Posts: 4917
Member Since:
17 December 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Expert Textpert said

walrusgumboot said

vonbontee said

I don't know why anyone would possibly think that Yoko doesn't love her own CHILDREN, for chrissakes.

one word....Kyoko.

If she didn't love Kyoko, why did she spend so much time and money gaining legal custody, and tracking her down all across the world so she could be with her again?

Her love of Kyoko was actually the reason she didn't like Julian.  She was so heartbroken she couldn't be with her own daughter that she became bitter about what John had.

Many parents go through ugly divorces/breakdowns of relationship, which result in one parent having difficulty with access to their child, or in the worst cases, sees one parent kidnap the child and disappear to prevent access. That Yoko found herself in this situation says what about whether she is capable of love? I don't understand. Does this mean that all those who find themself in the same situation, and have no luck in finding their child, are incapable of love? That is the logical extension of the suggestion, though I would suggest that few of those who go, "You want proof? Kyoko!" actually know the story, and the outcome.

People act as if, with all the money she had access to, it should have been easy to find Kyoko. What is forgotten is that Anthony Cox was holed up in a religious cult known as The Walk with her for many years, until he "escaped" in 1977. Throughout the '70s, and into the early '80s, Cox lived under the name Holman, with Kyoko known as Ruth Holman. They sent Yoko a letter of condolence following John's assassination. The first contact from them since their disappearance.

Nothing more was heard until the mid-'80s, with Cox making a film about his involvement with The Walk, and his "escape". By this time they were again using their real names. Kyoko was listed as an associate producer on the film, and Cox gave a telephone interview around that time (1986).

Speaking of Kyoko, who at the time was 22, he said, "Because of our life-style, she was taught with tutors, studied in foreign schools and has a conception of the world that's very mature for someone her age."

A family friend, Eric Pement of Jesus People USA, said of her, "She's a marvelously bright woman, a real Christian who loves the Lord but is not a real straitlaced fundamentalist. She's in great shape, really together. She came out of the experience smelling like a rose."

Of his feelings about Yoko, Cox said, "I don't have any bitterness toward Yoko. We both made terrible mistakes. Although [the Lennons] nearly destroyed me, at the same time she really had tremendous remorse, and when I found that out later, that changed my whole attitude. I really felt sorry for her. Regardless of how much I suffered, she was suffering also, and I'm genuinely aware of that."

And of the possibility of the reunion between mother and daughter, he said that the decision was completely Kyoko's, adding, "She's a completely independent individual. After seeing what some of the aspects of public life are about, she realized that was one thing she did not want."

Yoko, in response, issued a public letter:

Dear Kyoko,

All these years there has not been one day I have not missed you. You are always in my heart. However, I will not make any attempt to find you now as I wish to respect your privacy. I wish you all the best in the world. If you ever wish to get in touch with me, know that I love you deeply and would be very happy to hear from you. But you should not feel guilty if you choose not to reach me. You have my respect, love and support forever.

Love, Mommy

After becoming a mother in the mid-90s, Kyoko did contact Yoko, and they were reunited in 1998, and while Kyoko remains largely out of the public eye, she is said to have a very good relationship with her mother and Sean. They have been photographed together over the years.

yoko_kyoko_sean_2_std.jpgImage Enlarger

yoko_kyoko_sean_std.jpgImage Enlarger

tumblr_lbajbf39Ss1qbwvico1_500.jpgImage Enlarger

http://i1.wp.com/bobgruen.com/potda/0311Update/images/22611_IMG_3042.JPG?w=200Image Enlarger

[Image Can Not Be Found]

http://i2.wp.com/25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m6202mtvD21qgv804o1_400.jpg?w=200Image Enlarger

[Image Can Not Be Found]

So, for those of you who regularly point at Yoko's relationship with Kyoko as evidence that she is incapable of normal emotions, I ask how the facts support your theories?

The following people thank Ron Nasty for this post:

vonbontee

"I only said we were bigger than Rod... and now there's all this!" Ron Nasty

25 September 2013
4.51pm
mccartneyalarm
Carnegie Hall
Forum Posts: 243
Member Since:
9 July 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Very excellent information, mja6758, about Yoko and the history of her search for Kyoko. I do remember much of what you brought up from my readings. I agree that Yoko is not a monster, and clearly, since she is human, she must have some feelings which were/are directed at her children. I am not arguing with you at all. I just can't forget how she treated Sean after he was born....rather ignoring him; sending him off with John whenever she could so she could take care of the family "business." Maybe that isn't proof she didn't love Sean, but it does make me question her priorities. As for Kyoko....it is quite true Tony Cox simply made it impossible for her to locate Kyoko. However, it was John who lead the crusade to find her at any cost. And, Yoko HAS to win at any cost. I can't help thinking that part of her parental crusade was due to the fact she insisted on beating Tony out of custody, not because she wanted her daughter back at all costs. Yoko was very clear throughout her life that she did not want to have children. She had many abortions (not that there is anything wrong with that). But, it is the reason she had difficulty conceiving. The way she kept John from Julian; the way she treated Sean as an infant; and her lack of interest in the role of motherhood her whole life all point to my doubts about the depth of her maternal instincts.

"And in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make."

No permission to create posts
Forum Timezone: America/Chicago

Most Users Ever Online: 597

Currently Online:
35 Guest(s)

Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)

Top Posters:

meanmistermustard: 17110

Ahhh Girl: 10708

Annadog40: 9656

Zig: 7531

parlance: 7092

mr. Sun king coming together: 6980

Mr. Kite: 6092

Silly Girl: 5690

trcanberra: 5522

Ron Nasty: 4916

Member Stats:

Guest Posters: 87

Members: 3327

Moderators: 4

Admins: 2

Forum Stats:

Groups: 3

Forums: 42

Topics: 3813

Posts: 201536

Newest Members:

ttn48griff, Beatles007, Edwardo, deandawes, RB

Moderators: Ahhh Girl: 10708, meanmistermustard: 17110, Zig: 7531, Joe: 4389

Administrators: Joe: 4389, Ellie: 3

Members Birthdays
sp_BirthdayIcon
Today: None
Upcoming: VeraChuckDave