Did Yoko love John? | Fab Forum

Introducing the inaugural Fab Forum February Fundraiser! Click here for more details.

Please consider registering
Guest

sp_LogInOut Log In sp_Registration Register

Register | Lost password?
Advanced Search

— Forum Scope —






— Match —





— Forum Options —





Minimum search word length is 4 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters

sp_Feed sp_TopicIcon
Did Yoko love John?
No permission to create posts
22 August 2013
4.24pm
Avatar
Expert Textpert
In bed.
Apple rooftop
Forum Posts: 2416
Member Since:
18 April 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

 

I just finished The Last Days of John Lennon by Frederic Seaman, and he paints a pretty grim picture of Yoko Ono.  Up til now I had only read books that Yoko approved.  After reading the book, I think that John loved Yoko, or at the very least needed her emotionally.

But Seaman paints Yoko very negatively...always spending John's money, constantly on the phone from morning to night, never available to have lunch with John (who had to make appointments to see her).  According to Seaman, she was very depressed when she found out she couldn't have another child, which must have been a way to further control John, because, according to the book she had no interest in Sean whatosever, was almost never with him, and her only parental guidance was to tell the staff to give him whatever he wanted.  She had an affair with Sam Green right under John's nose.  And, apparently she didn't even mourn when John died.  It was just business as usual and immediately using his posthumous surge in popularity to make money.

Is this true?  Do these things mean that she didn't love John?  He had affairs as well, such as the one with May Pang.  It's hard to say.

"This Beatles talk bores me to death." --John Lennon
22 August 2013
4.56pm
mccartneyalarm
Carnegie Hall
Forum Posts: 243
Member Since:
9 July 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I absolutely loved the Seaman book! As with anything, some of it could be exaggerated. But, Seaman was John's personal assistant and confidant. And, much of what he stated in his book, I've found in other sources. I am reading "Dakota Days" now (written by tarot card reader at the same time Seaman was at the Dakota). He seems to corraborate a good deal of what Seaman claims. Did John love Yoko? I think he did at first. But, she really was after his money and the power it brought. I just read how she really got off on being John's rep at the Beatles Apple meetings. She was away from him more than she was with him. She was into their "business"...buying real estate and cows and such. That irritated John. He kept saying he wanted a real wife. I don't think Yoko is capable of loving anyone (to include her kids...look at how she treated her daughter, Kyoto) She liked that John was rich and famous and that fact allowed her do her "art" the way she wanted to do it. She was afraid of losing John cuz that would mean she couldn't record anymore and it would end her vast source of income. She loved to control John. She used numerology as part of the plot to keep him where she wanted him. John needed to be controlled,I guess. She did stop being intimate with John. And, she did have that affair. (She had an affair with a musician in Chicago, I think, while John was on the Last Weekend). Anyway, bottom line, I don't think John believed Yoko loved him (how could he?) which fed into his primal fear of abandonment that he carried after Julia and Alf left him (and his Uncle, too). I don't think Yoko ever could love. Very interesting...and sad. Had John lived, I really feel that he and Yoko would have split up eventually.

"And in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make."

22 August 2013
5.35pm
Avatar
HeyTrud
Edmonton, Alberta Canada
Candlestick Park
Forum Posts: 554
Member Since:
14 February 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I have read a couple of books on John.   I also read (I think it was in "The Many Lives of John Lennon"?) much of what mccartneyalarm wrote above.  In the last years, John was a househusband and caregiver to Sean, Yoko totally absorbed herself in the business.  Always on the phone, always making deals.  No time for John or her kids.  She had much control over John & that was sad.   I have always found Yoko to be a rather cold character....business winning out over family at all times.  Sad. :(

"....take a sad song & make it Meilleur"....

22 August 2013
6.02pm
Avatar
SatanHimself
Hades-on-Leith
Candlestick Park
Forum Posts: 696
Member Since:
15 August 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
22 August 2013
9.44pm
Avatar
meanmistermustard
Moderator



Forum Posts: 17204
Member Since:
1 May 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I think Yoko did love John at the beginning, probably a very strong initial love (a besotted absorbing love) existed between them and that kept them wrapped up in each other for a time and all the events and projects they did together in the early years. However slowly it began to fade and became more of an amicable arrangement for both parties before eventually they split, as is often the case, in '73. (Wasnt Yoko the one getting more respect and praise from the critics, her stock being higher than Johns?)

Whatever feelings Yoko had for John (and for everything that came with him (money, prestige, opportunity)) were then rekindled during their split and seeing him out there making music, and it being well received (US number 1 single and album, concert appearance with Elton), and they got back together. They quickly died and it became an arrangement again with John in the Dakato and Yoko doing her thing, occupied with the business and happy with what she had. John's need and depency for Yoko or that mother figure he so desired keeping him there (and giving Yoko license to do as she wanted with whom she wanted) as well as not wanting to walk out on another son and having nothing to do with him at all (repeating the past with Julian and his father Freddie with John).

The johnandyoko story right from the start in '66 to the end is bullshit in my opinion and i heavily doubt they would have been together till they were old and  grey if John hadnt of been killed with a divorce coming in the early 80's.

On another note - Has anyone read or even heard of 'Nowhere Man: The Final Days of John Lennon" by Robert Rosen? Its another book that focuses on the Dakota period and having found it lingering in a cupboard was thinking of adding it to the pile of books started but never completed. (This should be in another thread but i cant remember which thread that was).

Don’t make your love suffer insecurities, trade the baggage of self to set another one free. ('Paper Skin' - Kendall Payne)
23 August 2013
4.10pm
Avatar
parlance
Slaggers
Apple rooftop
Forum Posts: 7092
Member Since:
8 November 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

meanmistermustard said

On another note - Has anyone read or even heard of 'Nowhere Man: The Final Days of John Lennon" by Robert Rosen? Its another book that focuses on the Dakota period and having found it lingering in a cupboard was thinking of adding it to the pile of books started but never completed. (This should be in another thread but i cant remember which thread that was).

I haven't. Is this the one based on the diaries that Fred Seaman stole?

parlance

 

Beware of sadness. It can hit you. It can hurt you. Make you sore and what is more, that is not what you are here for. - George

Check out my fan video for Paul's song "Appreciate" at Vimeo or YouTube.

23 August 2013
5.08pm
mccartneyalarm
Carnegie Hall
Forum Posts: 243
Member Since:
9 July 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

First...I have read "Nowhere Man"...I highly recommend it. It does corroborate much of the Seaman book (and the book "Dakota Days" by Charlie Swan). To address Yoko's being incapable of love...she was married twice before. The first, I believe, was a guy she met in college. It didn't last long, as I recall (I can't find the reference to that relationship in my Lennon library). I seem to recall she married him to appease her parents. She did not have a good relationship with them, especially her mother. Her realtionship to Tony Cox was almost completely a business deal. Their whole relationship revolved around his raising money to help get her avant garde art "seen" by the right people.  She did not want Kyoto, but went ahead with the pregnancy anyway. I believe she had several abortions prior to her having Kyoto. So, based on those past two relationships and the fact she did not form close girlfriend relationships, I'd say she has a limited or non-existent ability to love. She is narcisistic. She does not have the ability to show empathy. And she is completely self-absorbed. John was seeking (subconciously) the only kind of woman he knew how to want...a Julia. "Mother" filled that need, and because of Julia, he carried a tremendous fear of abandonment. You all have done a great job, in this discussion, of summing up Yoko. By the way, today is the day that John and Cynthia were married.

The following people thank mccartneyalarm for this post:

Oudis

"And in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make."

23 August 2013
7.42pm
Avatar
GoodDayTaxman
A Beginning
Forum Posts: 2
Member Since:
23 August 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Not sure if Yoko loved John, but John ALWAYS loved Yoko. Check out his song "I Know (I Know)" on Mind Games (which was released JUST after the long weekend in 1973.) To me, it sounds like he wrote the song as an apology to Yoko.

23 August 2013
7.56pm
Avatar
Ron Nasty
"Where have you been?" "I'm not telling you..."
Apple rooftop
Forum Posts: 4978
Member Since:
17 December 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Actually, Mind Games was the last album before the "lost weekend". The "lost weekend" spanned 1974-75, and the albums produced during it were Rock 'N' Roll and Walls And Bridges.

Btw, welcome to the forum. If you want to say anything about yourself, there is a "Introduce yourself to the forum" thread in All Together Now.

"I only said we were bigger than Rod... and now there's all this!" Ron Nasty

No permission to create posts
Forum Timezone: America/Chicago

Most Users Ever Online: 597

Currently Online: Necko, Bongo, Merch, KaleidoscopeMusic, thehippiechick
51 Guest(s)

Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)

Top Posters:

meanmistermustard: 17188

Ahhh Girl: 10784

Annadog40: 9799

Zig: 7584

parlance: 7092

mr. Sun king coming together: 6980

Mr. Kite: 6092

Silly Girl: 5888

trcanberra: 5552

Ron Nasty: 4974

Member Stats:

Guest Posters: 87

Members: 3339

Moderators: 4

Admins: 2

Forum Stats:

Groups: 3

Forums: 42

Topics: 3821

Posts: 202664

Newest Members:

g_hay, Evangeline, SomertonView, Mercury7, babapez

Moderators: Ahhh Girl: 10784, meanmistermustard: 17188, Zig: 7584, Joe: 4392

Administrators: Joe: 4392, Ellie: 3

Members Birthdays
sp_BirthdayIcon
Today: None
Upcoming: HerMajesty