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Did John Lennon have gay leanings?
6 October 2013
4.58am
Lennonista
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I'm not sure I like this phrase "gay leanings." It's not offensive, just a little inaccurate, imo. You're either gay or not gay. If you want to have sex with people of your same gender but you're also attracted to people of the opposite gender, then you have bisexual leanings, not gay ones. And, yeah... I think John was bisexual.

I think that either A) a lot more happened that we will never know about or be able to prove or B) John was a little uptight about exploring as much as he would have wanted to. John himself admitted to flirting with gay men, with wanting to be accepted by the gay world. And he also admitted to having sexual attractions to some men. I tend to believe Norman's story about John and Stu, for example. Now THAT was a much more sexualized friendship than John and Paul. And I do think John had a little bit of the hots for Paul (and vice versa, btw), but that he would never have acted upon it.... one of those "romantic English friendships" as Evelyn Waugh called them.

6 October 2013
11.49am
Hannah
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Interesting thoughts Lennonista. What makes you believe that Paul had the hots for John though? Personally I don't think Paul thought of John in a sexual way at all although be clearly loved him. 

6 October 2013
12.40pm
fabfouremily
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^ No, I don't think so either.

I respect your opinion(s), Lennonista, but how can you be so certain of all what you've said? I don't think I can ever see myself being that sure of anything that we haven't got much evidence of - or at least evidence I trust.

''We're just knocked out. We heard about the sell out. You gotta get an album out, you owe it to the people. We're so happy we can hardly count.''

6 October 2013
4.38pm
Ron Nasty
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This may already be here somewhere, I can't be bothered to go back and look, but it's a great bit from Howard Stern where he's talking about Lennon's sexuality with Paul.

There's also a great comment on the page from ffairlane 57 (credit given where credit's due): "John was a Yokosexual".

Made me laugh!

"I only said we were bigger than Rod... and now there's all this!" Ron Nasty
6 October 2013
5.24pm
Hannah
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that is funny! I've seen that vid before and thought Paul looks a little uncomfortable when asked about John's feelings for him. But then you would be if someone were implying that your best friend fancied you. Even if Paul did know something I don't think he'd reveal it, he would respect John's privacy too much. Yoko on the other hand doesn't seem to care what she reveals. I think too much importance is placed on people's sexuality. So what if John was attracted to Paul, it doesn't matter it's only sex after all. Saying that though I'm as fascinated as anyone! John was such a complex character and that is why he will always be remembered and talked about. 

6 October 2013
5.48pm
Ron Nasty
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Of course, it could be as simple as that Paul is being completely honest in his response, but like anyone in his position, the world is full of people going, "Ha! He would say that!"

"I only said we were bigger than Rod... and now there's all this!" Ron Nasty
6 October 2013
7.05pm
Lennonista
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Hannah said
Interesting thoughts Lennonista. What makes you believe that Paul had the hots for John though? Personally I don't think Paul thought of John in a sexual way at all although be clearly loved him. 

 fabfouremily said

I respect your opinion(s), Lennonista, but how can you be so certain of all what you've said? I don't think I can ever see myself being that sure of anything that we haven't got much evidence of - or at least evidence I trust.

 

First off, I like that this is a forum people can disagree respectfully. a-hard-days-night-ringo-10 Not always true other places.

To answer Emily, I'm not certain about what I said... it's just my opinion. Much like you have your opinion... you can't be certain what you say is true, either. We're all just playing a mind game, right?

To answer Hannah, it's just a feeling I get from the way Paul has spoken about John over the years. He really likes to stress how close they were. Plus, there's the famous "in bed" response he gave once when asked how he would spend the day with John if he could. I know he was joking, but Paul never puts a single word out to the public unintentionally. And then there's just the realities of youth and hormones and all that. Theirs was a pretty intense relationship, brotherly and competitive on the one hand, but sharing a deep artistic spirituality on the other, all of which made them very close. And when two people are close like that, especially during late adolescence, well there's bound to be some sexual tension. Not that they spent all their time fantasizing about each other, but I'll bet that if they didn't have their 1950s northern England working class hang-ups about homosexuality, then they may have been able to cross a line or two on some drunken night. But those are just my thoughts... You don't have to buy it, but I ask that you try it on for size before rejecting it completely.

As far as the Howard Stern interview... I love Paul, but he's famously not very revealing in interviews, nor is he the most comfortable with touchy subjects. I think he felt he was being very protective of John, so he developed this very pat answer about that question. (Which was all the rage in those days, post-Norman's bio.) Plus, I think it's possible that Paul turned a blind eye to or was blissfully unaware of John's (maybe) bisexual experiences... which is understandable, considering the time and their upbringings and all.

Again, I don't claim I'm right. These are just my opinions after a lifetime of Beatle study.

 

 

6 October 2013
8.08pm
Funny Paper
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"If you want to have sex with people of your same gender but you're also attracted to people of the opposite gender, then you have bisexual leanings, not gay ones."

"bisexual leanings" -- sounds like a Cirque du Soleil funambulist!blue-meanie

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6 October 2013
8.25pm
mccartneyalarm
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I love the term "Yokosexual!" Perfect to descibe John...leaves all sorts of options open. I love Brideshead Revisited..and get what Lennonista is trying to say making John & Paul into Waugh characters, but for the life of me, I can't see Paul fitting into that mode. (John, yes; Paul, no) I have one piece of evidence that sticks out in my mind...his relationship with his wife Linda. They never spent a night apart from each other the entire time they were married (except when Paul was in jail in Japan). He adored her. If Paul had sexual feelings toward John, the foundation of their love and marriage would not have been so rock-solid. Paul has never been rumored to be "involved or interested" in any other male like Jagger or one of his cute current bandmates. I've never seen evidence that he has eyes for anyone or anything that isn't a female. So, I can't wrap my head around Paul's interest in John. I'm not disagreeing...we all have our opinions...but I need more convincing with this one. I think Paul is right in the Stern interview...anyone can make anything look like whatever they want it to look like. (Yoko has her PhD. in that!)

"And in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make."

6 October 2013
8.57pm
Ron Nasty
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mccartneyalarm said
I love the term "Yokosexual!"

It's not often you see a YouTube comment worth repeating, but I thought that one was! Especially in terms of this discussion.

"I only said we were bigger than Rod... and now there's all this!" Ron Nasty
6 October 2013
9.02pm
Lennonista
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"Yokosexual" ~ ha, I love it! I really don't think Paul had a burning desire for John, just that there was probably sexual tension that went both ways. 

When it comes to Paul never spending a day away from Linda, that always seemed to me something they decided on consciously in the beginning of their relationship. My guess is that it was Paul's idea, because he was fearful of what he would have done if given the chance... He did adore her and he didn't want to mess it up. But don't you think it's just a bit curious that both lads, as the band was breaking up, completely threw themselves into their new relationships? Both Paul/Linda and John/Yoko were very tight, never-apart types of relationships... makes me feel like they were BOTH replacing what they had had with the other. a-hard-days-night-george-4

6 October 2013
9.20pm
Lennonista
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And just some more food for thought when it comes to Paul's feelings for John. Besides the "in bed" comment, Paul makes many references to bed when he reminisces about John. He has said his fondest memory was spending time with John in his bedroom at Mendips, listening to 45s and planning a future. He also frequently mentions how they wrote songs sitting on beds. And then there's "the eye contact thing we used to do" when Paul talked about dissolving into John's eyes when they first took acid together.

Again, I don't think this necessarily "proves" anything, but it just goes to show that my line of thinking didn't come straight out of left field. Like I said, Paul is very savvy when it comes to his public image, so it's interesting to me the words he uses and the memories he chooses to share.

6 October 2013
10.45pm
Ron Nasty
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But Elvis Costello has also said he got to write "eyeball to eyeball" with McCartney in the way that John did. Are we suggesting anything about Costello's sexuality. Both he and Paul describe it as the closest Paul ever got to John and Paul...?

"I only said we were bigger than Rod... and now there's all this!" Ron Nasty
7 October 2013
12.09am
Hannah
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Lennonista you are really making me think now! My gut instinct tells me that Paul didn't have sexual feelings for John but then I remember that "in bed" interview. Why would he have said that, even in jest? If someone had asked me that question about an old friend who'd died that would be the last thing I'd say! I'm of the opinion that you can be attracted to a member of the same sex without being gay or bisexual. You can be completely straight but one person just attracts you and you can't understand why. John and Paul certainly had a connection, when you look at footage of the two they are always making this intense eye contact which is different from when the others look at each other. I don't know, I'm confused now! 

7 October 2013
12.31am
walrusgumboot
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Methinks people are lookin for something where something isn't....

....ya won't be interferin' wit the basic rugged concept o' me personality would ya madam?
7 October 2013
1.40am
Ahhh Girl
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walrusgumboot said
Methinks people are lookin for something where something isn't....

...or it's hiding in plain sight.?.?

7 October 2013
1.52am
walrusgumboot
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cbatcu said

walrusgumboot said
Methinks people are lookin for something where something isn't....

...or it's hiding in plain sight.?.?

Echo...echo...echo...LOL

....ya won't be interferin' wit the basic rugged concept o' me personality would ya madam?
7 October 2013
1.54am
Ahhh Girl
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walrusgumboot said

cbatcu said

walrusgumboot said
Methinks people are lookin for something where something isn't....

...or it's hiding in plain sight.?.?

Echo...echo...echo...LOL

You're right. That was funny!

 

7 October 2013
10.04am
Funny Paper
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This discussion seems to have taken a turn where it's being implied that two men can't be deeply close without being gay or bisexual.  It's kind of analogous to the idea that a man and woman can't be close without a sexual component always lurking.

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7 October 2013
12.09pm
robert
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So here's my 2 cents - and over priced at that.

It would not have been at unusual or unlikely that when John and Paul were young teenagers they may have experimented sexually with each other - or that they may have experimented with other male friends when younger but not each other.

This behavior amongst adolescents is quite common (for boys and girls - especially in the 50's and 60's). This had less to do with being gay or bisexual and more to do with growing awareness of sexuality and what young teens do as they explore - they explore with their friends never considering the gay/hetero implications - again that was more true in the 50's and 60's when such activities were less public.

After that, I personally believe that John had some sort of crush on Paul - sexual and romantic - and that Paul used it to control John in the emerging years of Help, Rubber Soul etc.

I believe that during Pepper MMT days, Paul overplayed this hand with John who then met Yoko - I think John shared with Yoko his feelings about Paul which is why Yoko began her fierce campaign of keeping John and Paul apart from each other (all through White Album etc to John's death). And she eventually turned John against Paul. Yoko's demeanor towards Paul always struck me as jealous more than anything else. John talked about Paul and Yoko in equal emotional terms.

I think in a strange ironic twist, once John's relationship with Yoko was cemented John began to be colder to Paul, this rejection hurt Paul in a deep way - all of which shows up during Let It Be and Abbey Road and the breakup years following.

During Let It Be the movie, what I see is Paul trying to win John's affections back - but it was too late.

But I see Paul desperately trying to reignite John's love for him.

I don't think John and Paul actually had a physical or sexual relationship - unless during their early teen years they might have, as some close boys will- but that sort of "love" was there between them. I think "Oh Darling" was written for John - I think I read that they actually called each "darling" as jokey nicknames. And I know John once said that he thought a lot of Paul's songs were written about him (Beatle songs - not just Ram - but like Hey Jude).

And there are the stories of John crying for Paul or whatever during their early years.

So overall I think John had a strong attraction for Paul, Paul manipulated John with that attraction, they never really consummated, Yoko eventually stole John from Paul, and then Paul acted like a jilted lover. Which over the years is how John described their relationship.

Very little fact, just my opinion.

 

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