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Did John Lennon have gay leanings?
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30 August 2013
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LikeASir said
Sorry to hijack the topic but could we possibly get back to the Hamburg/early days? I find it incredibly annoying how there's a wealth of info out there from the later periods but hardly any about the very early days...

The only important or interesting bits that I remember about John from that time period (besides meeting Astrid Kerchherr and the other exis) are:

That he felt at home in this one particular club that had hairy men dressed as women, and would spend a lot of time there.

He had a "special relationship" with a bar maid at one of the clubs where they played, who felt jealous of Cynthia when she visited.

There is a rumour that he fought with Stu and subsequently blamed himself for Stu's brain hemorrhage.

Supposedly, one night when they were low on money, John tried to get the other Beatles to join him in beating a drunken sailor and taking his money (after the poor fellow had taken them out to dinner and bought their drinks).  Only Pete Best joined in, and the sailor ran away.

"This Beatles talk bores me to death." --John Lennon
30 August 2013
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LikeASir
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Expert Textpert said

LikeASir said
Sorry to hijack the topic but could we possibly get back to the Hamburg/early days? I find it incredibly annoying how there's a wealth of info out there from the later periods but hardly any about the very early days...

The only important or interesting bits that I remember about John from that time period (besides meeting Astrid Kerchherr and the other exis) are:

That he felt at home in this one particular club that had hairy men dressed as women, and would spend a lot of time there.

He had a "special relationship" with a bar maid at one of the clubs where they played, who felt jealous of Cynthia when she visited.

There is a rumour that he fought with Stu and subsequently blamed himself for Stu's brain hemorrhage.

Supposedly, one night when they were low on money, John tried to get the other Beatles to join him in beating a drunken sailor and taking his money (after the poor fellow had taken them out to dinner and bought their drinks).  Only Pete Best joined in, and the sailor ran away.

Thanks for all that, every little helps, I suppose! I'm really interested in how they grew up and the early days, I've seen films like Nowhere Boy and Backbeat so it's an area that I feel could be expanded upon a lot.

"White Album - My joint-fave Beatles album along with Revolver. They show the two sides of Beatles. Revolver's very controlled - even though it's also very innovative. The White Album's playful and almost ramshackle. It's like a scrapbook kept by a genius. Fantastic stuff."

29 September 2013
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30 September 2013
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trcanberra
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parlance said

bikelock28 said
I don't believe for one second that John was gay with/for Paul or Stu or Brian. During that era it was barely legal so I don't think that it was on their wavelengths, or that anyone would have really considered it

It wasn't just "barely legal," it was completely illegal. But what does legality have to do with anyone's orientation or leanings?

parlance

This, exactly.  From various things I have read I suspect that John conducted the odd bit of minor experimentation, and felt a little ashamed of it, which is why he was so nasty to Brian at times.

 

30 September 2013
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I think trcanberra and parlance have it right..John most likely experimented with Brian and there are plenty of sources that tend to suggest that (though it is not confirmed). As for the legality..it absolutely was illegal in the UK and the USA. But, that has nothng to do with people who are born into that lifestyle or people who might want to experiment (I don't believe people were afraid they'd get caught!) Look at Liberace (a famous, flamboyant Vegas entertainer of the '50s and 60's), who was openly gay. Legality never entered into it (and he wasn't arrested for it). Rock Hudson also was gay, though he hid it only because he was afraid he'd lose his female fans. Whether or not it was legal or illegal is moot in my opinion.

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30 September 2013
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I think there were people who were openly gay and plenty of others who weren't. Just like today, in fact, only I imagine there were more hiding it (perhaps even from themselves) when you risked being punished for it. Just my speculations.

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30 September 2013
9.09pm
Linde
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And that's not strange at all. I think it's ridiculous how you could get punished for loving someone of the same gender. I think everyone should be free to love whoever or whatever they want, as long as you don't bother people with it. As in, standing in the middle of town and kissing in an exaggerative way, with your tongue all over someone. Then it doesn't matter to me whether you're straight or gay. It's disgusting. 

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30 September 2013
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Linde said
And that's not strange at all. I think it's ridiculous how you could get punished for loving someone of the same gender. I think everyone should be free to love whoever or whatever they want, as long as you don't bother people with it. As in, standing in the middle of town and kissing in an exaggerative way, with your tongue all over someone. Then it doesn't matter to me whether you're straight or gay. It's disgusting. 

Couldn't have said that any better. heart

Hey, All You Need Is Love, whatever ''kind'' it is. heart

 

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30 September 2013
10.44pm
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According to a new biography yet to be published, John on 3 March, 1977 was spotted to be leaning to the left (quite possibly a gay leaning); and then the following summer, 20 August, 1978, a telephoto lens caught him listing backwards on a yacht (most decidedly gay)...

 

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30 September 2013
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Funny Paper said
According to a new biography yet to be published, John on 3 March, 1977 was spotted to be leaning to the left (quite possibly a gay leaning); and then the following summer, 20 August, 1978, a telephoto lens caught him listing backwards on a yacht (most decidedly gay)...

 

 

Is this a joke. He was spotted leaning to the left. What does all that mean?

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1 October 2013
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Yes, sorry, I forgot to formally and officially announce it was a joke.blue-meanie

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1 October 2013
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Funny Paper said
Yes, sorry, I forgot to formally and officially announce it was a joke.blue-meanie

 

Sorry. There are so many books on John with outlandish claims backed up with the most flimsy of logical evidence its getting too hard to be able to tell what is a joke nowadays and what's to be taken in seriously.

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1 October 2013
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meanmistermustard said

Funny Paper said
Yes, sorry, I forgot to formally and officially announce it was a joke.blue-meanie

 

Sorry. There are so many books on John with outlandish claims backed up with the most flimsy of logical evidence its getting too hard to be able to tell what is a joke nowadays and what's to be taken in seriously.

This exchange brought a smile to my face.  What was the name of the yacht?  The Princess Paul?

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1 October 2013
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Expert Textpert said

meanmistermustard said

Funny Paper said
Yes, sorry, I forgot to formally and officially announce it was a joke.blue-meanie

 
Sorry. There are so many books on John with outlandish claims backed up with the most flimsy of logical evidence its getting too hard to be able to tell what is a joke nowadays and what's to be taken in seriously.

This exchange brought a smile to my face.  What was the name of the yacht?  The Princess Paul?

No -- The Pink Submarine.

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2 October 2013
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mccartneyalarm said
Look at Liberace (a famous, flamboyant Vegas entertainer of the '50s and 60's), who was openly gay.

Liberace never admitted to being gay during his lifetime. He made clear how he would react to such suggestions quite early on in his career.

In 1956 he sued the British newspaper The Daily Mirror when a columnist described him as "…the summit of sex—the pinnacle of masculine, feminine, and neuter. Everything that he, she, and it can ever want… a deadly, winking, sniggering, snuggling, chromium-plated, scent-impregnated, luminous, quivering, giggling, fruit-flavoured, mincing, ice-covered heap of mother love", strongly hinting he was gay without saying it categorically.

In court he testified that he was not homosexual and had never taken part in homosexual acts. He won £8,000 damages.

The following year, in the US, he sued Confidential magazine over their cover story, "Why Liberace's theme song should be 'Mad About the Boy!'" Confidential settled out of court fearing the level of damages that could be awarded if they went to court.

Even after Scott Thorson sued him for palimony in 1982, he continued to deny that he was gay and that he and Thorson had ever been lovers. Even though the case was settled in 1986 in Thorson's favour.

Everything about Liberace may have screamed that he was gay, but he denied it to his death bed, and so to call him "openly gay" could not be further from the truth.

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2 October 2013
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I'm sorry to misinform about Liberace. I was brought up being told he was gay. I certainly don't pretend to know that much about him or his life. I hope the Forum will forgive me!

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2 October 2013
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mccartneyalarm said
I'm sorry to misinform about Liberace. I was brought up being told he was gay. I certainly don't pretend to know that much about him or his life. I hope the Forum will forgive me!

If they will forgive me for thinking that Europeans start counting on their fingers using their thumbs like I was always taught AND for not realizing just how deeply some American cultural things are embedded into UK consciousness also (see the Paul's Americanisms thread), I think they can forgive you for this one. I do. It is a bit surreal to learn that things you've always thought/have been taught are wrong. It makes you realize just how much you don't know.

 

2 October 2013
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mccartneyalarm said
I'm sorry to misinform about Liberace. I was brought up being told he was gay. I certainly don't pretend to know that much about him or his life. I hope the Forum will forgive me!

No one said he wasn't gay...just that he denied it.  I think it's safer to assume that Liberace was gay than John Lennon.

It's kind of like how Morrissey claims to be asexual, but everyone knows he's gay.

"This Beatles talk bores me to death." --John Lennon
2 October 2013
4.58pm
Ron Nasty
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mccartneyalarm said
I'm sorry to misinform about Liberace. I was brought up being told he was gay. I certainly don't pretend to know that much about him or his life. I hope the Forum will forgive me!

Nothing to forgive. I just remembered the Mirror case because he came out with his "I'm crying all the way to the bank" quote after he won it.

Like I said, everyone knew he was gay, he just lived a life of public denial. I just felt it was important to say it since a large part of your earlier argument seemed to be, if Liberace could be openly gay at that time without fear...

 

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2 October 2013
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trcanberra
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cbatcu said

mccartneyalarm said
I'm sorry to misinform about Liberace. I was brought up being told he was gay. I certainly don't pretend to know that much about him or his life. I hope the Forum will forgive me!

If they will forgive me for thinking that Europeans start counting on their fingers using their thumbs like I was always taught AND for not realizing just how deeply some American cultural things are embedded into UK consciousness also (see the Paul's Americanisms thread), I think they can forgive you for this one. I do. It is a bit surreal to learn that things you've always thought/have been taught are wrong. It makes you realize just how much you don't know.

 

Here I am off topic again, but you mean you don't start with a thumb?  Start with the thumb of the left hand here.

 

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