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Did John Lennon have gay leanings?
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29 July 2013
4.35pm
mccartneyalarm
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I had forgotten about John's sexual feelings toward Julia. You're right. He wasn't sure how to deal with most of his emotions which is probably why his music and writings were so extraordinary. I know he used to call Yoko "mother" even before Sean was born. Always thought that was a huge clue to the whirlwind of emotions going on in John's head!

"And in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make."

30 July 2013
5.18pm
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DrBeatle
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I don't think he was, personally. From everything I've read and studied, by the end I feel he was kind of "stuck" (see George's comments about visiting at the Dakota and feeling like John wanted to say more but couldn't because Yoko was always around). Also, people from 1968 until his death all asked (and talked amongst themselves), "what power does she have over him?" Mick Jagger, Cynthia, Paul and Linda, George, Pete Shotton, his sisters...they all wondered it. What would make him literally in one day go from being ready to serve divorce papers to Yoko, buying a house with May and proposing to her, and heading to New Orleans to write and record with Wings, to going back to the Dakota and cutting off all ties with everyone? It's so bizarre. I've read many accounts that people who knew him during the Lost Weekend said that was the real John, similar to how he was pre-Yoko and that he was almost like a zombie after getting back with her. Also, his diary tapes from the late 70s, and what he said to everyone at the Record Plant (since Yoko was almost never present during his sessions for his songs) paint the picture of a miserable guy who was ready to move on and reconnect with the past (his forthcoming trip to the UK and Mimi, rumblings of a Beatles reunion, renewing his partnership with Paul, etc).

Sorry to get so longwinded and off track. The gist of it...I believe with 100% of my being that he wanted out and was stuck.

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30 July 2013
5.23pm
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DrBeatle said
I don't think he was, personally. From everything I've read and studied, by the end I feel he was kind of "stuck" (see George's comments about visiting at the Dakota and feeling like John wanted to say more but couldn't because Yoko was always around). Also, people from 1968 until his death all asked (and talked amongst themselves), "what power does she have over him?" Mick Jagger, Cynthia, Paul and Linda, George, Pete Shotton, his sisters...they all wondered it. What would make him literally in one day go from being ready to serve divorce papers to Yoko, buying a house with May and proposing to her, and heading to New Orleans to write and record with Wings, to going back to the Dakota and cutting off all ties with everyone? It's so bizarre. I've read many accounts that people who knew him during the Lost Weekend said that was the real John, similar to how he was pre-Yoko and that he was almost like a zombie after getting back with her. Also, his diary tapes from the late 70s, and what he said to everyone at the Record Plant (since Yoko was almost never present during his sessions for his songs) paint the picture of a miserable guy who was ready to move on and reconnect with the past (his forthcoming trip to the UK and Mimi, rumblings of a Beatles reunion, renewing his partnership with Paul, etc).

Sorry to get so longwinded and off track. The gist of it...I believe with 100% of my being that he wanted out and was stuck.

Where did you get all this information about John wanting to reunite with The Beatles, renew a partnership with Paul, record with Wings, divorce Yoko, and marry May Pang?

I've never heard any of that.  What I've read is that John was miserable without Yoko and basically became a desperate alcoholic, begging her to take him back...and that the Lost Weekend was like a big party supervised by John's secretary (Pang).  Yoko provided the stability that he craved.  I think that had he lived, he and Yoko would have gone on to create more really good music together.

But really...where did all that info you have come from?

"This Beatles talk bores me to death." --John Lennon
30 July 2013
5.29pm
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DrBeatle
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Read "You Never Give Me Your Money." It's all in there. And in other books. Paul and Linda were expecting John and May in New Orleans for the Venus And Mars sessions when at the last minute he bailed. It's all documented extensively in that book. There were multiple times in the late 70s when they'd set something up and at the last minute Yoko would answer the phone and scupper it. Basically, every time she caught wind of Paul and John planning something, she sabotaged it.

And quite the opposite...LOADS of people who were around John in '73-'75 during the Lost Weekend state how he badmouthed Yoko and bitched all the time about her, how she wouldn't stop pestering and calling him, etc and he was ready to move on. It's also a misconception that it was one big party. He went nuts with booze and drugs at first, but once the Rock N'Roll debacle with Phil Spector hit, he cleaned up his act and was very focused (Walls And Bridges) and happy. Hell, Cynthia and Julian came to hang out and they went with him and May to Disney World for a vacation!

Again, the truth is quite a bit different from the myth that's been built (mainly by Yoko) since 1980.

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30 July 2013
6.24pm
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vonbontee
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Well, if he was with May Pang at the tme, I don't see how he could very well have NOT bitched about Yoko! What's he gonna say, "Have you met May? She's no Yoko but she'll do for now, at least until I get back to New York with Mother herself!" And again, those "rumblings" of a Beatles reunion - they were just John blowing smoke, as part of the anti-Beatlemania! lawsuit, weren't they?

I remember George saying 'Blimey, he's always talking about “Yesterday”, you'd think he was Beethoven or somebody' - Paul McCartney

30 July 2013
6.34pm
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Funny Paper
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The problem with blaming Yoko is that it shifts responsibility away from John for his own actions -- which, of course, he may have indulged in himself (ironic for the writer of "Woman is Nigger of the World").

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30 July 2013
6.42pm
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meanmistermustard
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The first part of fab4free4all's 1974 discusses John in 1974 and how the lost weekend is the wrong term for that time as whilst he was out on the town with Nilsson, Ringo and the others in LA for a period, as DR Beatle said, he quit the scene and moved to New York, getting himself straightened out. It sounds like an interesting period to read about but it would need to be written from a clear starting point.

 

A lot of the later John and Yoko story is rubbish if you look behind what they said in interviews in 1980 and Yoko afterwards - its a weird experience hearing John say with full conviction that he never picked up a guitar in 5 years and all the songs on Double Fantasy and Milk And Honey just came to him in a moment of inspiration when you know full well there are 5 years of demos where John pieces songs together.

The unofficial reports go that John and Yoko were heading for a divorce in the early 80's and that Yoko had been seeing someone on and off (David Spinozza?). It certainly wasn't all wonderful bliss in the Dakota with John making the bread and caring for Sean and Yoko doing the finance, going from whats on the home recording tapes that are out there and what others have said. Personally speaking I take most of what Yoko says with a pinch of salt.

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30 July 2013
7.22pm
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30 July 2013
7.39pm
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Why did he write Grow Old With Me, Dear Yoko, (Afraid I'm) Losing You, and Woman if he couldn't stand to be in the same room with her?  I don't buy it.

"This Beatles talk bores me to death." --John Lennon
30 July 2013
8.20pm
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meanmistermustard
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Another theory is that it was John who wanted to be with Yoko and Yoko wanted out hence the supposed affair, Johns unhappiness in the Dakota and the drugs etc - the track titles from Double Fantasy and Milk And Honey are used as part of the argument (John: Im Losing You, Woman, Forgive Me (My Flower Princess); Yoko: I'm Moving On). John only snapped out of his isolation when it became a possibility that Yoko was going to leave him. No idea how much of that is true as there are so many differing accounts of what the reality was and what went on in the Dakota throughout those 5 years, I doubt we'll ever know the truth.

Don’t make your love suffer insecurities, trade the baggage of self to set another one free. ('Paper Skin' - Kendall Payne)
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