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"Coincidences" leading up to and after John Lennon's death.
6 May 2013
1.13am
Expert Textpert
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Rishikesh
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mja6758 said
Expert Texpert, in my opinion, should repost the "coincidence" he left out. It was the part that set my hackles up. It gave the whole list a different context, beyond simple conspiracy theory. I don't mind a good conspiracy theory, and didn't object on that basis. Expert should repost the original first entry.

If it "set your hackles up," why should I repost it? 

"This Beatles talk bores me to death." --John Lennon

6 May 2013
1.18am
Von Bontee
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I want my hackles up too! Whatever hackles are…

One day, a tape-op got a tape on backwards, he went to play it, and it was all "Neeeradno-undowarrroom" and it was "Wow! Sounds Indian!" -- Paul McCartney
6 May 2013
1.26am
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Von Bontee said
I want my hackles up too! Whatever hackles are…

Okay…I don't think it has any real relationship with the rest of the items in the list, which is why I removed it.  I don't think John was actually referring to a Satanic pact, just using a figure of speech.

But, in 1964 he did tell Pete Shotton "I've sold my soul to the devil."

 

"This Beatles talk bores me to death." --John Lennon

6 May 2013
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I also found it interesting that in a 2010 Rolling Stone interview, Yoko says that right before John died he started listening to Walking on Thin Ice over and over again as if in a trance.   "I may cry someday / but the tears will dry / whichever way / and when our hearts / return to ashes / it'll be just a story."  She says "I hadn't realized that it said 'I may cry someday,' not 'you may cry someday' or 'we may cry someday.'  What was I thinking?! John probably noticed it as he listened to the song that weekend, so intently.  Was that what made him keep on listening? Did we know something? John? Me? Death was one thing we didn't discuss that weekend.  But it was around us like a thick fog."

"This Beatles talk bores me to death." --John Lennon

6 May 2013
8.09am
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Expert Textpert said

Von Bontee said
I want my hackles up too! Whatever hackles are…

Okay…I don't think it has any real relationship with the rest of the items in the list, which is why I removed it.  I don't think John was actually referring to a Satanic pact, just using a figure of speech.

But, in 1964 he did tell Pete Shotton "I've sold my soul to the devil."

 

Knowing John, he may have just thought he did that figuratively in terms of becoming a whore to capitalism by becoming a big star, etc.  He hardly was a stranger to self-doubt.

Mundo paparazzi mi amore cicce verdi parasol.
6 May 2013
9.22am
meanmistermustard
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John did say later that he felt the Beatles sold out to make it big. They all knew at the time however that to get to London and be really successful they would have to tone down their appearance etc and John went along with it. I would think therefore he was having a moment of doubt or just feeling crap and was speaking to a close friend when he said that and wasnt referring to death or actually having literally sold his sold to the devil.

 

 

"Well, probably we'll sell less records, less people'll go to see the film, we'll write less songs, and we'll all die of failure" (John Lennon 8/64)
6 May 2013
9.45am
Ron Nasty
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I think, if you start a list of "coincidences" full of Satanic references and curses, with John saying he's sold his soul to the devil, you make it sound as if he triggered a whole set of occult-related events. You can say you don't believe in the devil, but you set up a list that is all around Satanic forces. I'm with the others here who have commented the most likely meaning of that statement was John saying he had sold his soul to the "devil" of success, that he had sacrificed a part of himself to become Beatle John. But you stick it in front of lots of Occult garbage, and you twist it. And you denounce its inclusion on the list 1st time around, but you included it on the list 1st time around.

"Hackles up" refers to feeling anger or animosity, it comes from when a dog's hairs stand on end and the back legs raise in a defense/attack mode.

"I only said we were bigger than Rod... and now there's all this!" Ron Nasty
6 May 2013
9.58am
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John writes and sings in Cry Baby Cry

"At twelve o'clock a meeting round the table
For a seance in the dark
With voices out of nowhere
Put on specially by the children for a lark."

Yes im being facetious but you can find anything anywhere and tie it in elsewhere. Thats the problem i have with conspiracies. What normally happens is they find a few strong clues that do make you think but before too long it gets to the rediculous where the smallest things are shoehorned to hammer home a point. See the Paul is dead thing. It starts off with 28IF and the motorbike accident and a handful of others that make you think, even if just for a minute, but then they start cramming in clues from 1965 and that because Pauls toenail was blue that means death because in some culture blue sounds like the dead.

Im not having a go at this conspiracy, Expert Texpert or anyone here. Just stating my point of view. I found the Paul one interesting but at the end it i cannot take the leap and its the same with John.

Maybe its down to the brilliant Life of Brian.

"Well, probably we'll sell less records, less people'll go to see the film, we'll write less songs, and we'll all die of failure" (John Lennon 8/64)
6 May 2013
2.29pm
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mja6758 said
I think, if you start a list of "coincidences" full of Satanic references and curses, with John saying he's sold his soul to the devil, you make it sound as if he triggered a whole set of occult-related events. You can say you don't believe in the devil, but you set up a list that is all around Satanic forces. I'm with the others here who have commented the most likely meaning of that statement was John saying he had sold his soul to the "devil" of success, that he had sacrificed a part of himself to become Beatle John. But you stick it in front of lots of Occult garbage, and you twist it. And you denounce its inclusion on the list 1st time around, but you included it on the list 1st time around.

"Hackles up" refers to feeling anger or animosity, it comes from when a dog's hairs stand on end and the back legs raise in a defense/attack mode.

The list was started with that because it appeared first chronologically.  Added only as an afterthought, and quickly realizing its double meaning, and that this was the culprit for your "hackles," I quickly removed it.  I only added it back because I was pestered into doing so.

"This Beatles talk bores me to death." --John Lennon

6 May 2013
2.36pm
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meanmistermustard said
John writes and sings in Cry Baby Cry

"At twelve o'clock a meeting round the table
For a seance in the dark
With voices out of nowhere
Put on specially by the children for a lark."

Yes im being facetious but you can find anything anywhere and tie it in elsewhere. Thats the problem i have with conspiracies. What normally happens is they find a few strong clues that do make you think but before too long it gets to the rediculous where the smallest things are shoehorned to hammer home a point. See the Paul is dead thing. It starts off with 28IF and the motorbike accident and a handful of others that make you think, even if just for a minute, but then they start cramming in clues from 1965 and that because Pauls toenail was blue that means death because in some culture blue sounds like the dead.

Im not having a go at this conspiracy, Expert Texpert or anyone here. Just stating my point of view. I found the Paul one interesting but at the end it i cannot take the leap and its the same with John.

Maybe its down to the brilliant Life of Brian.

Well, you are being facetious, but I personally would not include such a lyric because the lyric is describing a fake seance, not a real one.  I think there are way too many big coincidences here for it to be merely "looking for something that isn't there." As to the "what is there" part, I don't know.  You could say it's all "six degrees of separation," or you could say that all the people were unconsciously connected in a web of evil. Or, it could be nothing after all.  I was merely pointing it all out to see what your thoughts were.

I  might add that I don't buy into the "Paul is Dead" conspiracy, or that other conspiracy where the Beatles were all supposedly replaced with doubles by the CIA.

There are also too many holes in the "Mark Chapman as Manchurian candidate" conspiracy theory, although that one is at least more plausible, with the fact that John was wiretapped and followed by the FBI.

"This Beatles talk bores me to death." --John Lennon

6 May 2013
2.44pm
Von Bontee
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mja6758 said

"Hackles up" refers to feeling anger or animosity, it comes from when a dog's hairs stand on end and the back legs raise in a defense/attack mode.

Really? Well thanks, I learned something today! (About the dog, that is; I knew what the phrase meant.)

One day, a tape-op got a tape on backwards, he went to play it, and it was all "Neeeradno-undowarrroom" and it was "Wow! Sounds Indian!" -- Paul McCartney
6 May 2013
3.45pm
meanmistermustard
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Expert Textpert said

 meanmistermustard said
John writes and sings in Cry Baby Cry

"At twelve o'clock a meeting round the table
For a seance in the dark
With voices out of nowhere
Put on specially by the children for a lark."

Yes im being facetious but you can find anything anywhere and tie it in elsewhere. Thats the problem i have with conspiracies. What normally happens is they find a few strong clues that do make you think but before too long it gets to the rediculous where the smallest things are shoehorned to hammer home a point. See the Paul is dead thing. It starts off with 28IF and the motorbike accident and a handful of others that make you think, even if just for a minute, but then they start cramming in clues from 1965 and that because Pauls toenail was blue that means death because in some culture blue sounds like the dead.

Im not having a go at this conspiracy, Expert Texpert or anyone here. Just stating my point of view. I found the Paul one interesting but at the end it i cannot take the leap and its the same with John.

Maybe its down to the brilliant Life of Brian.

Well, you are being facetious, but I personally would not include such a lyric because the lyric is describing a fake seance, not a real one.  I think there are way too many big coincidences here for it to be merely "looking for something that isn't there." As to the "what is there" part, I don't know.  You could say it's all "six degrees of separation," or you could say that all the people were unconsciously connected in a web of evil. Or, it could be nothing after all.  I was merely pointing it all out to see what your thoughts were.

I  might add that I don't buy into the "Paul is Dead" conspiracy, or that other conspiracy where the Beatles were all supposedly replaced with doubles by the CIA.

There are also too many holes in the "Mark Chapman as Manchurian candidate" conspiracy theory, although that one is at least more plausible, with the fact that John was wiretapped and followed by the FBI.

And that's my point, that's were the conspiracies always end up, taking whatever to fit in the the overriding theme. Nobpdy can tell me that Ringo's Dont Pass Me By details a true crash where someone was really decapitated but its used as evidence for the prosecution. My post wasnt aimed seriously at your posts, lists or anything just a general overriding comment on conspiracies and the so-called clues that are discovered and hammered home.

Actually thinking about it is related to Johns comment about selling his soul to the devil and all that could entail. Its a leap to get the coincidence, not as big as the lyrics in Cry Baby Cry but its still a hop.

"Well, probably we'll sell less records, less people'll go to see the film, we'll write less songs, and we'll all die of failure" (John Lennon 8/64)
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