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"Bed-in for peace" - Stupid or Genius?
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1 March 2014
Shea Stadium
Forum Posts: 415
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19 April 2010
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Not strictly true. The former Soviet block all gained freedom without war, and many of them - East Germany, Hungary, Poland, etc., found where they wanted to be in the world without a shot being fired. Yes, unfortunately, some did descend into ethnic violence, but that was largely in those countries that had been constructed in the 20th Century. And in recent years, again unfortunately, we have seen Russia flexing its muscles about countries that must not leave its sphere of influence (Georgia, Ukraine) and move towards Western Europe. Those cases, however, do not change my basic point that war is not always to gain freedom.


Not to be argumentative - but the idea that the USSR fell without a shot being fired is a US/Western Europe construct (and I'm from the US). I am fairly sure that the thousands upon thousands of people who fought Soviet oppression and died fighting for their freedom for over 80 years (the Polish Solidarity movement, Yugoslavia, Afghans, East Germans, Czechoslovakians, Serbs, Croatians etc., - not mention Russian dissidents) would beg to differ.

I agree that war is not always to gain freedom, however it is sad but true that freedom is never gained without bloodshed. Into the Sky with Diamonds said "Who doesn't want peace? It's just that everyone wants it on their terms."

Which is why I made the distinction between whether people want freedom or peace. Even John Lennon himself ultimately understood this which is why he "fought" (there's all types of wars) to stay in the US - even though he felt his life was at risk. If he'd just wanted peace he could have gone back to England, but what he really wanted was freedom - artistic and otherwise.


"She looks more like him than I do."
2 March 2014
Sitting in an English garden
Apple rooftop
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3 May 2012
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Moving along in our God given ways, safety is sat by the fire/Sanctuary from these feverish smiles, left with a mark on the door.

(Passover - I. Curtis)

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