"Bed-in for peace" - Stupid or Genius? | Page 2 | John Lennon | Fab forum

Please consider registering
Guest

Log In Register

Register | Lost password?
Advanced Search

— Forum Scope —

  

— Match —

   

— Forum Options —

   

Wildcard usage:
*  matches any number of characters    %  matches exactly one character

Minimum search word length is 4 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters

"Bed-in for peace" - Stupid or Genius?
28 February 2014
11.18pm
robert
Hollywood Bowl
Forum Posts: 353
Member Since:
19 April 2010
Offline
21

Into the Sky with Diamonds said

Who doesn't want peace? It's just that everyone wants it on their terms.

 

Slightly off topic – but here is where people get confused – do people want peace or freedom? It's easy to have peace with no freedom (North Korea for example)  – but freedom always takes a war to achieve – sad but true.

"She looks more like him than I do."
28 February 2014
11.47pm
Ron Nasty
"Where have you been?" "I'm not telling you..."
Apple rooftop
Forum Posts: 2968
Member Since:
17 December 2012
Offline
22

Not strictly true. The former Soviet block all gained freedom without war, and many of them – East Germany, Hungary, Poland, etc., found where they wanted to be in the world without a shot being fired. Yes, unfortunately, some did descend into ethnic violence, but that was largely in those countries that had been constructed in the 20th Century. And in recent years, again unfortunately, we have seen Russia flexing its muscles about countries that must not leave its sphere of influence (Georgia, Ukraine) and move towards Western Europe.

Those cases, however, do not change my basic point that war is not always to gain freedom.

"I only said we were bigger than Rod... and now there's all this!" Ron Nasty
1 March 2014
7.09pm
robert
Hollywood Bowl
Forum Posts: 353
Member Since:
19 April 2010
Offline
23

Not strictly true. The former Soviet block all gained freedom without war, and many of them – East Germany, Hungary, Poland, etc., found where they wanted to be in the world without a shot being fired. Yes, unfortunately, some did descend into ethnic violence, but that was largely in those countries that had been constructed in the 20th Century. And in recent years, again unfortunately, we have seen Russia flexing its muscles about countries that must not leave its sphere of influence (Georgia, Ukraine) and move towards Western Europe. Those cases, however, do not change my basic point that war is not always to gain freedom.

 

Not to be argumentative – but the idea that the USSR fell without a shot being fired is a US/Western Europe construct (and I'm from the US). I am fairly sure that the thousands upon thousands of people who fought Soviet oppression and died fighting for their freedom for over 80 years (the Polish Solidarity movement, Yugoslavia, Afghans, East Germans, Czechoslovakians, Serbs, Croatians etc., – not mention Russian dissidents) would beg to differ.

I agree that war is not always to gain freedom, however it is sad but true that freedom is never gained without bloodshed. Into the Sky with Diamonds said "Who doesn't want peace? It's just that everyone wants it on their terms."

Which is why I made the distinction between whether people want freedom or peace. Even John Lennon himself ultimately understood this which is why he "fought" (there's all types of wars) to stay in the US – even though he felt his life was at risk. If he'd just wanted peace he could have gone back to England, but what he really wanted was freedom – artistic and otherwise.

 

"She looks more like him than I do."
1 March 2014
7.48pm
Ron Nasty
"Where have you been?" "I'm not telling you..."
Apple rooftop
Forum Posts: 2968
Member Since:
17 December 2012
Offline
24

I should have said barely a shot, and I did intend to, don't know how that got lost! However, my point was that it doesn't always take a war.

If we zoom in on just one, East Germany. Yes, many East Germans died seeking freedom, however there was no war needed when East Germany gained freedom and the two halves unified. The same goes for, in their time, Czechoslovakia, Hungary, and Poland. They may all have had freedom movements suppressed, with Poland being the most recent of them at the time, but they were not at the time they gained freedom.

Obviously, Czechoslovakia is a slightly different case as the Czechs and Slovaks didn't come of gaining their freedom without bloodshed – but I recognised that.

My point was, history aside, how many people died in the 1989/1990 move from Soviet domination to democracy in East Germany, Hungary and Poland? And what WAR was there, in those examples at that time?

"I only said we were bigger than Rod... and now there's all this!" Ron Nasty
2 March 2014
12.04pm
robert
Hollywood Bowl
Forum Posts: 353
Member Since:
19 April 2010
Offline
25

My point was, history aside, how many people died in the 1989/1990 move from Soviet domination to democracy in East Germany, Hungary and Poland? And what WAR was there, in those examples at that time?

 

And my point is that the time frame we should be looking at is from about 1950 – 1990 – that was the length of what we call the "Cold War". 1989/1990 is the date of the end of that war. That is actually the surrender of the war – not the war itself.

"She looks more like him than I do."
2 March 2014
3.23pm
fabfouremily
Sitting in an English garden
Apple rooftop
Forum Posts: 2927
Member Since:
3 May 2012
Offline
26

Though it's good to discuss important subjects, perhaps we should keep this to a more appropriate thread? (here, for example: http://www.beatlesbible.com/fo…..ad-thread/ )

''We're just knocked out. We heard about the sell out. You gotta get an album out, you owe it to the people. We're so happy we can hardly count.''

6 March 2014
10.36pm
Musketeer Gripweed (kezron9)
Coldspring Harbor, NY
Carnegie Hall
Forum Posts: 206
Member Since:
17 January 2014
Offline
27

MJA love the video post, it gave people a great way to voice there opinion in a peaceful manner as opposed to rioting. It wasn't meant to be genius or anything, it was meant to promote an opinion or idea which it was successful of. This was a confusing time for the people of the entire world. A time when anti-establishment was growing throughout the entire world. People were very confused and weren't sure what to do. Like Berkley was an example of protesting/control gone wrong. John is just promoting that if action is going to be taken by either side pro-war or anti, that it should be attempted in a peaceful manner. So in retrospect I think it was great PR work on Johns part and provided an amazing medium for people to voice opinion.It is also showing people you don't have to just protest by marching the streets, that there are other ways to protest. I think they also handled the media frenzy that ensued the bed-in, the best way possible. Also the media were panning John and Yoko at the time, so he gave them a twist if there gonna be covering me anyway why not promote peace.  This is a great documentary on the Toronto Bed In. 

 

Forum Timezone: Europe/London

Most Users Ever Online: 597

Currently Online:
41 Guest(s)

Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)

Top Posters:

meanmistermustard: 9302

mr. Sun king coming together: 6916

parlance: 4942

mithveaen: 4651

Ahhh Girl: 4599

Zig: 3772

Annadog40: 3670

Mr. Kite: 3325

Ron Nasty: 2968

fabfouremily: 2927

Member Stats:

Guest Posters: 87

Members: 2528

Moderators: 4

Admins: 2

Forum Stats:

Groups: 3

Forums: 34

Topics: 3171

Posts: 130048

Newest Members: JStarStar, StrawberryWalrus, Ringorules2002, surfjabroni, SaxonMothersSon

Moderators: Ahhh Girl (4599), meanmistermustard (9302), Zig (3772), Joe (3418)

Administrators: Joe (3418), Ellie (1)

Members Birthdays
Today: Filipe
Upcoming: Regular John