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Do you think George really wanted to do the anthology documentary?
15 November 2013
3.47pm
breatle62
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From my opinion or what seemed too me that george didnt really look all that enthusiastic about doing the anthology.I read that he did it only for the money.I dont recall how much he made, but it mustve been a substantial amount. Some of the extra stuff filmed as when paul was talking about Golden Slumbers, george asked which album was that on..and paul ringo razzed him.He looked really annoyed.Like he would rather be someware else..What do you guys/gals think on this? 

15 November 2013
4.05pm
WETSRoosa
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breatle62 said
From my opinion or what seemed too me that george didnt really look all that enthusiastic about doing the anthology.I read that he did it only for the money.I dont recall how much he made, but it mustve been a substantial amount. Some of the extra stuff filmed as when paul was talking about Golden Slumbers, george asked which album was that on..and paul ringo razzed him.He looked really annoyed.Like he would rather be someware else..What do you guys/gals think on this? 

Here's George's take on it… for what it's worth, he was the one who blocked "Carnival Of Light" from release…

"Daddy, just remember... Mommy's smarter than you. She said so."- My 4 year old
15 November 2013
4.27pm
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I read somewhere that the Anthology DVD set has fewer DVDs because George thought the original number wasn't spiritual enough according to his religious symbolism.

"This Beatles talk bores me to death." --John Lennon

15 November 2013
4.58pm
DrBeatle
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George did the Anthology because he desperately needed the money. End of story. It absolutely galled him to have to go crawling to Paul (especially) and Ringo and agree to trade on his Beatles past (which he always distanced himself from) and he'd resisted the anthology project for years. But he was in VERY dire financial straits by the late 1980s/early 1990s. As in, losing Friar Park was a very real possibility. This was through no fault of his own, sure he'd made some poor investments with his Handmade Films company (*cough* Shanghai Surprise *cough*) but more than anything, he'd been bilked out of his fortune by his manager, O'Brien.

His most major demand was that the title Aspinall had wanted to use since 1970, "The Long And Winding Road," be dropped because he didn't want it to be "named after one of Paul's songs."

 

Hence, George's very sardonic and cranky (sometimes) takes in the documentary, and his "I'd-rather-be-anywhere-else-please-kill-me-now" demeanor in EVERY shot with Paul (and Ringo), especially in the DVD bonus footage. He looks like he wants to crawl into a hole and die when they're sitting in Abbey Road studios or hanging out at his house.

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15 November 2013
5.19pm
mccartneyalarm
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In what way did O'Dell bilk George out of his money? I know so little about this topic…I'm interested in what happened to make George so desperate for money. Thanks for any information!

"And in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make."

15 November 2013
5.55pm
DrBeatle
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Sorry, it was Dennis O'Brien, not Dennis O'Dell (I've edited my post above)…he basically embezzled George's money, something like 16 million pounds

"I know you, you know me; one thing I can tell you is you got to be free!"

 

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15 November 2013
7.19pm
breatle62
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DrBeatle said
Sorry, it was Dennis O'Brien, not Dennis O'Dell (I've edited my post above)…he basically embezzled George's money, something like 16 million pounds

 

Ide like to learn more about that..never new.

15 November 2013
7.46pm
meanmistermustard
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George did have money but it was tied up in many many other places which he couldn't access, the rest, as DrBeatle mentioned had been pilfered by his so-called business partner and friend Denis O'Brien. 

If anyone was the reason for the no show it was George; Paul would have done it in an instant and Ringo's career could always welcome a Beatles boost, never mind a potful of cash. Obviously John was gone, maybe if he had been about George would have been more relaxed as Paul wouldn't have been so, not domineering, open in the way he was in the series. 

Personally i don't think George is hating his time there as much as everyone says, tho he certainly looks pissed off during the oldies session included in the bonus dvd and pretty bored in the Abbey Road studios going over some of the tapes. You get the feeling watching that that he would happily have went home at any moment during those.

 

I'm probably wrong but wasn't George not keen on having 10 episodes due to associations with that number and so it was reduced to 8 episodes

"Well, probably we'll sell less records, less people'll go to see the film, we'll write less songs, and we'll all die of failure" (John Lennon 8/64)
15 November 2013
7.58pm
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meanmistermustard said
George did have money but it was tied up in many many other places which he couldn't access, the rest, as DrBeatle mentioned had been pilfered by his so-called business partner and friend Denis O'Brien. 

If anyone was the reason for the no show it was George; Paul would have done it in an instant and Ringo's career could always welcome a Beatles boost, never mind a potful of cash. Obviously John was gone, maybe if he had been about George would have been more relaxed as Paul wouldn't have been so, not domineering, open in the way he was in the series. 

Personally i don't think George is hating his time there as much as everyone says, tho he certainly looks pissed off during the oldies session included in the bonus dvd and pretty bored in the Abbey Road studios going over some of the tapes. You get the feeling watching that that he would happily have went home at any moment during those.

 

I'm probably wrong but wasn't George not keen on having 10 episodes due to associations with that number and so it was reduced to 8 episodes

Yes, you're right--that is what I was trying to say above, but I got mixed up and thought it was the number of DVDs not episodes.  8 had better religious symbolism for George.

"This Beatles talk bores me to death." --John Lennon

15 November 2013
8.01pm
Ron Nasty
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Welcome breatle62, should you wish to tell us a little about yourself, there is an "Introduce yourself to the forum" thread over in "All Together Now".

Denis O'Brien was a film producer introduced to George by Peter Sellers. When the accumulated Beatles royalties started to slowly free up in 1973, O'Brien helped George sort out the tax side, and George ultimately took him on as his manager. By 1978, with George wanting to help out the Pythons with Life of Brian, O'Brien was an obvious adviser on how to proceed given his former life. HandMade Films was created, with George and Denis as partners (with George as majority partner) – George bankrolling it, and Denis in charge of the day-to-day.

Unfortunately, their management agreement was not dissolved at this time. This meant that overseeing Denis O'Brien's actions at HandMade Films on George's behalf was his manager, Denis O'Brien.

This appeared to work well while HandMade Films were the UK's most important independent film production company, but by the early '90s they were producing duff film after duff film, and were losing money. After one particularly duff film, George sent the accountants in and started finding questionable use of expensives to bankroll O'Brien's lifestyle, and questionable records of profit and loss on various films – including some of their most successful.

Harrison, as majority shareholder, dissolved the partnership in 1993, and sold the company the following year. He, however, continued his examination of the books. In 1995 he launched a $16 million lawsuit against O'Brien in California, and was awarded $11 million. O'Brien, at the same time, had himself declared bankrupt in his home state, preventing George from collecting the money awarded in California.

George then had to start a lawsuit to have the bankruptcy declared as a legal manoeuvre and not true, while his cancer was taking hold. George was due to give a deposition but could not due to having just had lung surgery. The judge did not see this as a reasonable and threw the case out. So it is unlikely George ever saw a penny from O'Brien.

"I only said we were bigger than Rod... and now there's all this!" Ron Nasty
15 November 2013
8.05pm
DrBeatle
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meanmistermustard said
George did have money but it was tied up in many many other places which he couldn't access, the rest, as DrBeatle mentioned had been pilfered by his so-called business partner and friend Denis O'Brien. 

If anyone was the reason for the no show it was George; Paul would have done it in an instant and Ringo's career could always welcome a Beatles boost, never mind a potful of cash. Obviously John was gone, maybe if he had been about George would have been more relaxed as Paul wouldn't have been so, not domineering, open in the way he was in the series. 

Personally i don't think George is hating his time there as much as everyone says, tho he certainly looks pissed off during the oldies session included in the bonus dvd and pretty bored in the Abbey Road studios going over some of the tapes. You get the feeling watching that that he would happily have went home at any moment during those.

 

I'm probably wrong but wasn't George not keen on having 10 episodes due to associations with that number and so it was reduced to 8 episodes

George is the best one in the actual documentary…he's hilarious, very dry wit and his delivery is fantastic. It's when he's in the same room as Paul that the discomfort just oozes out of the TV screen.

 

"I know you, you know me; one thing I can tell you is you got to be free!"

 

Please Visit My Website, The Rock and Roll Chemist

Twitter: @blackbookblur

 

15 November 2013
8.16pm
meanmistermustard
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DrBeatle said

meanmistermustard said
George did have money but it was tied up in many many other places which he couldn't access, the rest, as DrBeatle mentioned had been pilfered by his so-called business partner and friend Denis O'Brien. 

If anyone was the reason for the no show it was George; Paul would have done it in an instant and Ringo's career could always welcome a Beatles boost, never mind a potful of cash. Obviously John was gone, maybe if he had been about George would have been more relaxed as Paul wouldn't have been so, not domineering, open in the way he was in the series. 

Personally i don't think George is hating his time there as much as everyone says, tho he certainly looks pissed off during the oldies session included in the bonus dvd and pretty bored in the Abbey Road studios going over some of the tapes. You get the feeling watching that that he would happily have went home at any moment during those.

 

I'm probably wrong but wasn't George not keen on having 10 episodes due to associations with that number and so it was reduced to 8 episodes

George is the best one in the actual documentary…he's hilarious, very dry wit and his delivery is fantastic. It's when he's in the same room as Paul that the discomfort just oozes out of the TV screen.

  

Definitely. Whilst Paul was trying to downplay the Beatles you never believed him when he said it, George on the other hand didn't try to downplay, he came from the other angle which was i know we were fucking amazing, you know we were fucking amazing but it's not life or death so lets cut out all the bullshit and pretense and have some fun.

The Elvis conversation when they were all around the same table as well as the Paperback Write one George looked at ease most of the time, tho one or two times Paul seemed to try and talk over him. 

"Well, probably we'll sell less records, less people'll go to see the film, we'll write less songs, and we'll all die of failure" (John Lennon 8/64)
15 November 2013
9.01pm
trcanberra
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breatle62 said
From my opinion or what seemed too me that george didnt really look all that enthusiastic about doing the anthology.I read that he did it only for the money.I dont recall how much he made, but it mustve been a substantial amount. Some of the extra stuff filmed as when paul was talking about Golden Slumbers, george asked which album was that on..and paul ringo razzed him.He looked really annoyed.Like he would rather be someware else..What do you guys/gals think on this? 

I think that it's lucky that George didn't have a knife handy or we might not be enjoying new Paul McCartney CDs nowdays.

 

15 November 2013
9.03pm
DrBeatle
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^yeah, that bit always makes me cringe. Also the 3 of them jamming and when they're in the studio with George Martin…George looks like he wanted the ground to swallow him whole in those bits. I squirm in my chair every time I see those bits, even all these years later!

"I know you, you know me; one thing I can tell you is you got to be free!"

 

Please Visit My Website, The Rock and Roll Chemist

Twitter: @blackbookblur

 

15 November 2013
9.50pm
trcanberra
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DrBeatle said
^yeah, that bit always makes me cringe. Also the 3 of them jamming and when they're in the studio with George Martin…George looks like he wanted the ground to swallow him whole in those bits. I squirm in my chair every time I see those bits, even all these years later!

Agreed; a few more thoughts:

  1. Those scenes make the Let It Be movie look cheerful by comparison
  2. You wonder what was left on the cutting room floor if those were the best bits
  3. If anyone asks you why the Beatles never got back together – just show them that footage

 

15 November 2013
10.26pm
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trcanberra said

DrBeatle said
^yeah, that bit always makes me cringe. Also the 3 of them jamming and when they're in the studio with George Martin…George looks like he wanted the ground to swallow him whole in those bits. I squirm in my chair every time I see those bits, even all these years later!

Agreed; a few more thoughts:

    1. Those scenes make the Let It Be movie look cheerful by comparison
      1. You wonder what was left on the cutting room floor if those were the best bits
        1. If anyone asks you why the Beatles never got back together – just show them that footage

         

        There is a "director's cut" of Anthology, supposedly with significantly more footage.  I haven't seen it yet, though.

        "This Beatles talk bores me to death." --John Lennon

        15 November 2013
        10.44pm
        bewareofchairs
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        IMO people exaggerate about how tense it was. I think much of George's uneasiness derived from "reuniting" without John there (they were going to play Let It Be, but George didn't think it was right to do it without John so they just stuck to playing covers), and he's always felt uncomfortable in front of a camera – probably not helped by Paul's tendency to ham it up when a camera's on him. Jeff Lynne said it was a great day and everybody was in good spirits, and one of George's gardeners commented that when Paul and Ringo were there for the documentary they all got along very well.

        There are several stories of Paul visiting George at Friar Park in the late '80s and throughout the '90s, so it's not like they hated each other as some people make out.

        As for the Anthology in general, George was certainly reluctant and did it for the money. However, when it was finished he seemed genuinely glad that he did it.

        EDIT: Also, it's worth mentioning George was the one who got the ball rolling for the Cirque Du Soleil Beatles LOVE show. I think I remember someone saying he was inspired from doing the Anthology as this was shortly after, but I could be wrong.

        15 November 2013
        11.38pm
        Atlas
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        What came over to me was Paul walking on egg-shells round George, very aware he should not be seen as trying to dominate, or appear as 'dominating'……But be seen instead to be giving George the respect that he has always complained he never got within the Beatles.

        At the same time Paul doesn't want to lose the credit he's due, or lose authority he always had musically over George and was the reality of the working relationship between them.

        Complicated!

        For me George comes across as being over defensive and ill at ease. It's as though he's anticipating situations that will illustrate to the world at large, (not least his Wilbury mates) how he suffered all those years as a 'sidekick'……. and is itching for an opportunity to stand up for himself.

        Complicated…

        You can see both of their points of view.

         

        16 November 2013
        12.08am
        trcanberra
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        bewareofchairs said
        IMO people exaggerate about how tense it was. I think much of George's uneasiness derived from "reuniting" without John there (they were going to play Let It Be, but George didn't think it was right to do it without John so they just stuck to playing covers), and he's always felt uncomfortable in front of a camera – probably not helped by Paul's tendency to ham it up when a camera's on him. Jeff Lynne said it was a great day and everybody was in good spirits, and one of George's gardeners commented that when Paul and Ringo were there for the documentary they all got along very well.

        There are several stories of Paul visiting George at Friar Park in the late '80s and throughout the '90s, so it's not like they hated each other as some people make out.

        As for the Anthology in general, George was certainly reluctant and did it for the money. However, when it was finished he seemed genuinely glad that he did it.

        EDIT: Also, it's worth mentioning George was the one who got the ball rolling for the Cirque Du Soleil Beatles LOVE show. I think I remember someone saying he was inspired from doing the Anthology as this was shortly after, but I could be wrong.

        All I know is that it was painful to watch – the body language was awful – and that is no exaggeration.

         

        16 November 2013
        1.15am
        bewareofchairs
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        Atlas said
        What came over to me was Paul walking on egg-shells round George, very aware he should not be seen as trying to dominate, or appear as 'dominating'……But be seen instead to be giving George the respect that he has always complained he never got within the Beatles.

        At the same time Paul doesn't want to lose the credit he's due, or lose authority he always had musically over George and was the reality of the working relationship between them.

        Complicated!

        For me George comes across as being over defensive and ill at ease. It's as though he's anticipating situations that will illustrate to the world at large, (not least his Wilbury mates) how he suffered all those years as a 'sidekick'……. and is itching for an opportunity to stand up for himself.

        Complicated…

        You can see both of their points of view.

         

        There was definite tension there, and I agree it was painful to watch sometimes, but I honestly think people read too much into it. When you only see the edited footage it's difficult to tell because it can makes things seem much worse than they actually were. The "fight" between Paul and George in Let It Be, for example, isn't nearly as bad when you hear the full tape.

        Something you also have to keep in mind is how being in that situation, particularly in Abbey Road with George Martin, probably brought back a lot of unpleasant memories for George which he had spent years trying to forget. It's easier to be positive when you were at the top of the hierarchy. I know Paul tried, but even then (and now) he still continued to be patronising towards George. After everything he'd been through with his solo career and all the projects he collaborated on with other artists, I imagine it was difficult for him to be around Paul in that environment. No matter what, George was always just his little mate. That said, I do sympathise with Paul as well.

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