The Beatles Bible - Topic: 65/66 Songwriting

Joaco on 65/66 Songwriting

Tue, 04 Sep 2012 07:46:42 +0100

Ben Ramon said

But If I Needed Someone is for me George's first masterpiece- that beautiful jangling guitar riff and the incredible harmonies- not to mention that immortal lyric "carve your number on my wall and maybe you will get a call from me." I've often wondered if I could try that on a girl I fancied who was a Beatles nut and hope she'd get the reference.

Haha, not sure that'd be a good idea.

Well, notice how this somehow coincides with the period where they became a "studio band". I'm pretty sure having more time for themselves allowed for George ...

Ben Ramon on 65/66 Songwriting

Mon, 03 Sep 2012 20:28:20 +0100

The Walrus said
I've never been a fan of George's stuff on Help! I don't like I Need You very much, except for the ascending "please come on back to me" vocal (even if it is off key) and then the "you don't want my loving any more" line which kind of... dips. You Like Me Too Much is probably the most forgettable song on the album.

I kind of agree with you here, I've sometimes found I Need You to be a bit overrated. Don't think it's ever off key though?

If I Needed Someone and Think For Yourself are ...

Holsety on 65/66 Songwriting

Mon, 03 Sep 2012 16:42:29 +0100

I feel like John bloomed in '65 because all three of his compositions on side A of Help! are very memorable Beatles songs. As for George, I like his Rubber Soul compositions both remind me of other good songs. Although by Revolver, he got 3 songs on the record, one of them beginning it. He had that sitar kick for a little while too.. And since his regular writing was at a standstill, by the time he decided he ought to write some other songs again, he kinda ended up where he left off. That being said, he really was ...

The Walrus on 65/66 Songwriting

Mon, 03 Sep 2012 09:07:55 +0100

I've never been a fan of George's stuff on Help! I don't like I Need You very much, except for the ascending "please come on back to me" vocal (even if it is off key) and then the "you don't want my loving any more" line which kind of... dips. You Like Me Too Much is probably the most forgettable song on the album.

If I Needed Someone and Think For Yourself are better than the songs on Help!, but they're still not on the level of most Lennon-McCartney compositions.

Revolver is where George really takes off, his songs are par for ...

fabfouremily on 65/66 Songwriting

Mon, 03 Sep 2012 08:37:29 +0100

John started to bloom in '64 and in particular, 'A Hard Day's Night'. I always thought that he was stronger on that than on 'Help!',though of course he wrote some goodies for that too.

I think that George was getting better by 1966 (''Taxman'' being the proof) but wasn't considered, by anybody at the time (I think), that good. He only started to really blossom with the White Album and then of course, 'Abbey Road'.

Holsety on 65/66 Songwriting

Mon, 03 Sep 2012 02:45:54 +0100

mr. Sun king coming together said
- he started to bloom as Lennon did in 1964 and as Paul did in 1965. George was a quick study, and he ended up catching them by 1968.

I've always thought John bloomed by 65; Help, specifically. Paul really did in '66, considering his work on Revolver is incredible. George really became a great songwriter by Abbey Road, where all his compositions on it are considered some of the best the Beatles ever did. I think he started to get it by the time he wrote Taxman, though; it is pretty underrated ...

Inner Light on 65/66 Songwriting

Sat, 30 Jun 2012 17:23:27 +0100

meanmistermustard said
Didnt Ravi encourage George to reacqaint himself with the guitar in '68. I remember reading somewhere recently that George realised that the sitar would take years to learn to a high standard and that there were far superior musicians who had been playing it for years but hadnt gotten to trully know the instrument.

Those may have contributed to the absence of Indian music; it would be difficult to write more Indian songs when playing Western instruments.

Was reading a book about the White Album a few weeks ago will see if its in there.

I believe you are right here regarding George realizing that he ...

meanmistermustard on 65/66 Songwriting

Fri, 29 Jun 2012 16:49:49 +0100

Didnt Ravi encourage George to reacqaint himself with the guitar in '68. I remember reading somewhere recently that George realised that the sitar would take years to learn to a high standard and that there were far superior musicians who had been playing it for years but hadnt gotten to trully know the instrument.

Those may have contributed to the absence of Indian music; it would be difficult to write more Indian songs when playing Western instruments.

Was reading a book about the White Album a few weeks ago will see if its in there.

Joe on 65/66 Songwriting

Fri, 29 Jun 2012 16:18:17 +0100

But he produced the Wonderwall Music and The Inner Light sessions in India in early 1968, then in the summer spent weeks there with Maharishi. I'm still surprised that it had a negligible impact on his songwriting. It's almost as if The Beatles said "The public know we've gone to India; it would be too obvious for our music to go that way too", and they went in every other direction instead.

Good point about learning the sitar. I wonder if "The farther one travels the less one really knows" is why (almost?) none of his solo stuff sounds particularly Indian.

...

Inner Light on 65/66 Songwriting

Fri, 29 Jun 2012 16:07:02 +0100

I love the line George said from the documentary when he was asked why he wrote 'Don't Bother Me', he said it was an exercise to see if he could write a song and said that he felt if John and Paul could write songs, then anyone could. George was an interesting character.

I think the reason why he did not have any sitar related songs on the 'White Album' is because he said that he wasn't playing the sitar that much at that point. I think he felt he would never get great at it. I know how he feels. ...

Joe on 65/66 Songwriting

Fri, 29 Jun 2012 15:23:35 +0100

I'd love to know, a) why he didn't write any Indian music for the White Album, and b) why Piggies and/or Savoy Truffle were chosen over the far better Not Guilty. Probably because it was written about the other Beatles.

mr. Sun king coming together on 65/66 Songwriting

Thu, 28 Jun 2012 21:16:49 +0100

It's the evolution of being a songwriter, I think. George had in 1963/64/65 what Lennon and McCartney had in 1960/61/62. By 1966, with his expanded tastes and LSD, he started to bloom as Lennon did in 1964 and as Paul did in 1965. George was a quick study, and he ended up catching them by 1968, at least to me. Not Guilty, Savoy Truffle and While My Guitar Gently Weeps, plus others written then that I'm forgetting, that was when he caught up. He was starting later, but he sped up really quick in 1966.

GeorgeTSimpson on 65/66 Songwriting

Thu, 28 Jun 2012 20:57:39 +0100

I think his songwriting on help and rubber soul was quite good, but his revolver songs (except taxman) were a bit too experimental for me and so all his songs were until white album (many say john was reborn in the white album, I'd say it was george with 4 great songs and two other awesome songs (not guilty, sour milk sea) not released (at least not as beatles songs), after which (with the exception of yellow submarine) all his songs were great

Joe on 65/66 Songwriting

Thu, 28 Jun 2012 16:27:03 +0100

I think you're right. He didn't do a lot in 1964; I think You Know What To Do (on Anthology) was his only recorded composition that year, and even that was just a demo. I presume he was writing in 63/64 and gradually getting better, but still wasn't producing good enough stuff to get on an album.

By the time they were making Rubber Soul they weren't really doing covers - IIRC the last one was Act Naturally on Help!. They revived Wait from the Help! sessions, as you say, and also What Goes On from the early days. Presumably George ...

meanmistermustard on 65/66 Songwriting

Thu, 28 Jun 2012 11:43:02 +0100

Did George's songwriting only really start to kick in in 1966? Was thinking of Wait on Rubber Soul and how it was added because they had nothing else but i always took that as being John & Paul, but wouldnt they have also asked George as well. Admittedly he had already written 2 on Rubber Soul but he did sing lead on three songs on With The Beatles so there wasnt a 2 song limit. So did he have nothing else ready? We know that a few songs that were recorded on All Things Must Pass originated from '66 so he was starting to have ...