Birth of the Beatles | Beatles films, television and radio | Fab forum

Please consider registering
Guest

Log In Register

Register | Lost password?
Advanced Search

— Forum Scope —

  

— Match —

   

— Forum Options —

   

Wildcard usage:
*  matches any number of characters    %  matches exactly one character

Minimum search word length is 4 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters

Birth of the Beatles
31 March 2012
8.02am
beatlenutbob
Hull Yorkshire
St Peters Church
Forum Posts: 15
Member Since:
31 March 2012
Offline

I can't find this mentioned anywhere on here if it is I'm sorry
Just want to say I find this film very good it's the best Lennon lookalike I've sen in film apart from the John and yoko love story I do wish one day there would be mentioned about ringo coming into the group from ringos point of view this hardly ever gets mentioned

Would to read your thoughts on ths matter

Life is what happens when your busy making other plans
12 April 2012
7.29pm
Zig
The Toppermost of the Poppermost
Moderator



Forum Posts: 3753
Member Since:
14 April 2010
Online

I have not seen this movie yet – maybe others here in the Forum have – anyone?

To the fountain of perpetual mirth, Let it roll for all its worth.

Every Little Thing you buy from Amazon or iTunes will help the Beatles Bible if you use these links: Amazon | iTunes

12 April 2012
9.38pm
meanmistermustard
Moderator



Forum Posts: 9296
Member Since:
1 May 2011
Offline

Is that the one from the 70's that Pete Best was involved in, helping out with details etc? Stephen someone played John?

 

If so for years i had a copy of it taped of a BBC screening and liked it initially. However the more i got into the Beatles the more it irritated the heck out of me. If Best was meant to be helping ensure the historical accuracy he did a crap job from what i can remember.

It was on one of the non-sky movie channels a few weeks ago and i turned it off after about 3 minutes. I get so annoyed seeing these beatles films as all i end up getting really worked up, shouting at the screen "THAT WAS A PAUL SONG!!!!!", "THAT DIDNT HAPPEN!!!!!", "JOHN WOULD NEVER HAVE SAID THAT!!!!!!".

Its not worth the heart pains and sore throat.

"Well, probably we'll sell less records, less people'll go to see the film, we'll write less songs, and we'll all die of failure" (John Lennon 8/64)
12 April 2012
9.53pm
mithveaen
Sitarday's room
Apple rooftop
Forum Posts: 4651
Member Since:
1 May 2010
Offline

a-hard-days-night-ringo-8 Isn't it that one when George sings in Hamburg "Don't bother me"?

Here comes the sun….. Scoobie-doobie…… Something in the way she moves…..attracts me like a cauliflower… Bop. Bop, cat bop. Go, Johnny, Go. Beware of Darkness…  I believe in SH...
13 April 2012
7.06pm
Zig
The Toppermost of the Poppermost
Moderator



Forum Posts: 3753
Member Since:
14 April 2010
Online

meanmistermustard said
 I get so annoyed seeing these beatles films as all i end up getting really worked up, shouting at the screen "THAT WAS A PAUL SONG!!!!!", "THAT DIDNT HAPPEN!!!!!", "JOHN WOULD NEVER HAVE SAID THAT!!!!!!".

Its not worth the heart pains and sore throat.

That is hilarious. It is also the same reason why my wife won't watch movies about the Beatles with me!

Poetic license in movies about anything other topic is one thing…but don't mess with my Beatles!!!blue-meanie

To the fountain of perpetual mirth, Let it roll for all its worth.

Every Little Thing you buy from Amazon or iTunes will help the Beatles Bible if you use these links: Amazon | iTunes

4 June 2012
5.24pm
vonbontee
Inside a Letterbox
Apple rooftop
Forum Posts: 2165
Member Since:
1 December 2009
Offline

This was made for ABC-TV in 1979, and they rebroadcast it in December 1980 shortly after John was shot. I watched it then but can remember absolutely nothing about it, apart from being surprised to learn of the existence of a Beatle named "Stu" (my knowledge was very limited at the time.) Also I had trouble understanding some of the accents.

I just want to play. I’d like to think I could work opposite Sinatra, B.B. King, the Beatles, or a polka band... - Jazz musician Rahsaan Roland Kirk, 1967
27 December 2013
1.39am
Billy Rhythm
Shea Stadium
Forum Posts: 437
Member Since:
22 December 2013
Offline

I really love this movie, "poetic license" was kept to a minimum and there's much attention to factual detail, the acting is pretty good and the Soundtrack performed by the original 'Rain' Beatles tribute band is top notch.  I think that it's considerably better than the 'BackBeat' movie, in my opinion.  For those who have yet to see it, I found it on YouTube so here it is:

 

 

Enjoy…:-)

 

 

31 December 2013
1.49pm
guitarman
London, UK
The Indra
Forum Posts: 42
Member Since:
28 June 2013
Offline

This was the first film I ever saw about the Beatles – it was screened in the UK in 1980 (as vonbontee has said). I was 11 at the time so I have rather nostalgic feelings about it (although my mother did change the channel when the Hamburg bed scene came on). It's a very romanticised and very inaccurate account of their early years – Pete must have been suffering from amnesia at the time or perhaps they just ignored his comments. The strangest thing is that we have a guy in his mid-thirties playing a 19 year old John and he just about manages to convince us. The portrayal of Eppy though is just unforgivable – he comes across as a total wimp – and I love the reimagining of how George Martin first heard them. 

Somebody spoke and I went into a dream

31 December 2013
2.03pm
Ron Nasty
"Where have you been?" "I'm not telling you..."
Apple rooftop
Forum Posts: 2968
Member Since:
17 December 2012
Offline

I thought I'd commented here! But, yeah, saw it same time as you guitarman. Just before, around (?), Lennon's death, the BBC had a Beatles season, and this was part of it. Wildly inaccurate!

What I always remember is this George was played by EastEnders' (UK soap) Nasty Nick Cotton!

"I only said we were bigger than Rod... and now there's all this!" Ron Nasty
31 December 2013
3.47pm
meanmistermustard
Moderator



Forum Posts: 9296
Member Since:
1 May 2011
Offline
10

Pete Best was a consultant and we are meant to be believe his claims he was as good a drummer as Ringo! Doesn't deserve his own smiley.

"Well, probably we'll sell less records, less people'll go to see the film, we'll write less songs, and we'll all die of failure" (John Lennon 8/64)
31 December 2013
5.35pm
Billy Rhythm
Shea Stadium
Forum Posts: 437
Member Since:
22 December 2013
Offline
11

meanmistermustard said
Pete Best was a consultant and we are meant to be believe his claims he was as good a drummer as Ringo! Doesn't deserve his own smiley.

 

Pete was generally well respected as a drummer around Liverpool, some claim that his heavy emphasis on the kick drum was even imitated by many.  I'm sure from the adoration that Pete had received by being a Beatle led him to personally believe that "he was as good a drummer as Ringo!"…:-)

31 December 2013
6.03pm
meanmistermustard
Moderator



Forum Posts: 9296
Member Since:
1 May 2011
Offline
12

 

Billy Rhythm said

meanmistermustard said
Pete Best was a consultant and we are meant to be believe his claims he was as good a drummer as Ringo! Doesn't deserve his own smiley.

 

Pete was generally well respected as a drummer around Liverpool, some claim that his heavy emphasis on the kick drum was even imitated by many.  I'm sure from the adoration that Pete had received by being a Beatle led him to personally believe that "he was as good a drummer as Ringo!"…:-)

And his mum no doubt banging on about it forever didn't help. Pete was well respected as a good drummer in Liverpool, Ringo was widely thought of as being the best drummer in Liverpool.a-hard-days-night-ringo-15 

"Well, probably we'll sell less records, less people'll go to see the film, we'll write less songs, and we'll all die of failure" (John Lennon 8/64)
31 December 2013
11.29pm
Billy Rhythm
Shea Stadium
Forum Posts: 437
Member Since:
22 December 2013
Offline
13

guitarman said
The portrayal of Eppy though is just unforgivable – he comes across as a total wimp

I thought that the actor who depicted Brian Epstein nailed one of the better acting performances, in my opinion.  He certainly got the look and voice right, and let's face it, Brian was a bit of a wimp, to be honest.  His discovery and polishing up of The Beatles was a stroke of pure brilliance, but he's no shrewd businessman really and was often taken advantage of in The Beatles' business dealings.  The best example being Seltaeb (Beatles spelled backwards) where he was bullied into literally giftwrapping the vast majority of profits to this company.  I can't remember the exact figures off-hand, but they're ridiculous, something in the neighbourhood of The Beatles getting 10% of any merchandise sales (the countless items now known as Memorabilia) bearing their name brand, while this virgin American Company called Seltaeb got 90%, this translated into Millions of US Dollars which meant a lot more back then than Millions US does today.  It has to go down as one of the biggest business blunders in history.  I don't really like the word wimp but it's not so out of character for this "portrayal of Eppy"…:-)

1 January 2014
12.27am
meanmistermustard
Moderator



Forum Posts: 9296
Member Since:
1 May 2011
Offline
14

Billy Rhythm said

guitarman said
The portrayal of Eppy though is just unforgivable – he comes across as a total wimp

I thought that the actor who depicted Brian Epstein nailed one of the better acting performances, in my opinion.  He certainly got the look and voice right, and let's face it, Brian was a bit of a wimp, to be honest.  His discovery and polishing up of The Beatles was a stroke of pure brilliance, but he's no shrewd businessman really and was often taken advantage of in The Beatles' business dealings.  The best example being Seltaeb (Beatles spelled backwards) where he was bullied into literally giftwrapping the vast majority of profits to this company.  I can't remember the exact figures off-hand, but they're ridiculous, something in the neighbourhood of The Beatles getting 10% of any merchandise sales (the countless items now known as Memorabilia) bearing their name brand, while this virgin American Company called Seltaeb got 90%, this translated into Millions of US Dollars which meant a lot more back then than Millions US does today.  It has to go down as one of the biggest business blunders in history.  I don't really like the word wimp but it's not so out of character for this "portrayal of Eppy"…:-)

To be fair to Brian he was way into uncharted territory with the merchandise and i'm sure those he was doing deals with would have presented it in such a confusing manner to make it sound much better than it was really was. I read once that Brian thought he was getting the 90% and was amazed to find it was the other way around. I'm not that sure he was ever really a true business man, more he put himself to be in that position and then it became far bigger than he and everyone else thought it would be. A man totally out of his depth.

"Well, probably we'll sell less records, less people'll go to see the film, we'll write less songs, and we'll all die of failure" (John Lennon 8/64)
4 January 2014
2.54pm
guitarman
London, UK
The Indra
Forum Posts: 42
Member Since:
28 June 2013
Offline
15

meanmistermustard said

Billy Rhythm said

guitarman said
The portrayal of Eppy though is just unforgivable – he comes across as a total wimp

I thought that the actor who depicted Brian Epstein nailed one of the better acting performances, in my opinion.  He certainly got the look and voice right, and let's face it, Brian was a bit of a wimp, to be honest.  His discovery and polishing up of The Beatles was a stroke of pure brilliance, but he's no shrewd businessman really and was often taken advantage of in The Beatles' business dealings.  The best example being Seltaeb (Beatles spelled backwards) where he was bullied into literally giftwrapping the vast majority of profits to this company.  I can't remember the exact figures off-hand, but they're ridiculous, something in the neighbourhood of The Beatles getting 10% of any merchandise sales (the countless items now known as Memorabilia) bearing their name brand, while this virgin American Company called Seltaeb got 90%, this translated into Millions of US Dollars which meant a lot more back then than Millions US does today.  It has to go down as one of the biggest business blunders in history.  I don't really like the word wimp but it's not so out of character for this "portrayal of Eppy"…:-)

To be fair to Brian he was way into uncharted territory with the merchandise and i'm sure those he was doing deals with would have presented it in such a confusing manner to make it sound much better than it was really was. I read once that Brian thought he was getting the 90% and was amazed to find it was the other way around. I'm not that sure he was ever really a true business man, more he put himself to be in that position and then it became far bigger than he and everyone else thought it would be. A man totally out of his depth.

I don't know if you've read the Lewisohn book yet, Billy Rhythm – I'm up to early 1961 in the Extended Edition. Brian hasn't even met the Beatles yet and he's already had the tough life experiences that I'm sure gave him the drive to make them a success. I am already rooting for him because he took a lot of knocks and never stopped trying to find his way in life. They were a brilliant band who were about to break up in late '61 because they'd conquered Hamburg and Liverpool and had nowhere else to go. The one thing they lacked was organisation and a focus. As Lennon said once, 'we were in a daydream until Brian came along'. Brian organised them, got them more money, gave them a focus, sorted out their image and – yes, they did get their record contract because of matters outside of his control – but they would never have been heard by Ardmore and Beechwood without his determination. As Mark Lewisohn says, without Brian they would have split. 

Yes he got shafted later on the merchandising but that was because no manager had ever dealt with anything as big as them. It's a testament to his importance to them that, less than 24 months after his death, John quit the band he'd formed. What was it he said when Brian died? "We've f***in' had it now". Yes there were many other factors that Brian probably could not have influenced and his role in their lives was reduced from what it was – but I honestly believe that the bond between them was still there. We'll have to wait and see what Mark uncovers on this. I still don't buy the film's portrayal of him as a soft-arse though! a-hard-days-night-george-10

Somebody spoke and I went into a dream

4 January 2014
6.03pm
Billy Rhythm
Shea Stadium
Forum Posts: 437
Member Since:
22 December 2013
Offline
16

Yeah, I'm just not sure on what you mean by "soft-arse" or "wimp", the film accurately depicts the gentle soul that was Brian Epstein, had they made him any more "harder" than that than it wouldn't have been an true representation, in my opinion.  On the Seltaeb deal, a good (or, shrewd) businessman needs to be constantly on top of what's beyond the horizon financially (trends), and for Brian to simply give away a vast goldmine in merchandising revenue at the height of Beatlemania is just unforgiveable, there's no excuses there, he f***ed up BIG time.  His strength, business-wise, appeared to me to be more in the Public Relations department, he was a "people pleaser".  He could smooze and impress when it came to dignitaries, royalty, etc., but was easily intimidated by those who could sense that he was in over his head.  He was the complete opposite of Allen Klein, and it's easy to see why John was so high on him coming in to clean up their affairs later on, he didn't want another Brian Epstein coming in worried about if people were gonna like him or not…:-)  

5 January 2014
10.56am
guitarman
London, UK
The Indra
Forum Posts: 42
Member Since:
28 June 2013
Offline
17

I agree that Brian was a gentle soul but for me, the actor in the film overplays this to an almost comic degree – all the hand-clasping, wide-eyed wonderment and excited exclamations makes him look like someone who was also soft in the head, which is a completely different thing. Given what I'm reading about his life and what he went through, I just can't believe he behaved like that. I even remember feeling it was a bit odd when I saw the film as a little boy.

He did make a huge mistake later on with the merchandising and, on reflection, I have to agree with you – there was no excuse. By then, he was out of his depth but he should have taken advice. He was never good at this – I seem to remember Ray Coleman relating in his book a lesson which Tito Burns taught Brian about how he should ask for help from other managers. In the beginning, Brian was a good organiser, he knew about presentation, he knew how to talk to promoters and his determination and vision made the Beatles happen. When it went global though, he was like a rabbit in a torchlight most of the time.

In regard to Klein, is it on record that John actually said he didn't want another Epstein? John was a bit of a stranger to reason during this period though – didn't he convene a meeting at Apple to tell the others he was Jesus?!

 

Somebody spoke and I went into a dream

5 January 2014
11.32am
Ron Nasty
"Where have you been?" "I'm not telling you..."
Apple rooftop
Forum Posts: 2968
Member Since:
17 December 2012
Offline

I have to agree with both of you on the Selteab deal. Yes, it was a lousy stupid deal. No arguing there. However, you argue as if Brian walked into a meeting, was offered a lousy deal that his lawyers never bothered to look at, and signed the deal without any advice.

Until the last moment the contact was signed, it would have passed through many hands at NEMS, or associated with NEMS. Why does nobody ever mention that all those lawyers and others who Brian employed to help guide him, appear to have said nothing about the unfairness of the deal.

And remember, from his first association with The Beatles, we have evidence that Brian would rely on others to help him with the details. When he was looking to become their manager he went to a family friend who was a lawyer (E. Rex Makin) to help him draw up a fair contract.

Why is it that Epstein is criticised so much for various deals, including the Selteab deal, and those he employed to help him with those deals – which by the time of the Selteab deal included some of the top entertainment legal brains in the world, never get a mention?

As mmm pointed out above, it was new territory, and nobody truly knew what they were doing. They were making it up from day to day. Why Brian should be criticised more for the mistakes, than those he employed to let him know he was making a mistake, is beyond my ken.

"I only said we were bigger than Rod... and now there's all this!" Ron Nasty
5 January 2014
12.23pm
meanmistermustard
Moderator



Forum Posts: 9296
Member Since:
1 May 2011
Offline
19

mja6758 said
I have to agree with both of you on the Selteab deal. Yes, it was a lousy stupid deal. No arguing there. However, you argue as if Brian walked into a meeting, was offered a lousy deal that his lawyers never bothered to look at, and signed the deal without any advice.

Until the last moment the contact was signed, it would have passed through many hands at NEMS, or associated with NEMS. Why does nobody ever mention that all those lawyers and others who Brian employed to help guide him, appear to have said nothing about the unfairness of the deal.

And remember, from his first association with The Beatles, we have evidence that Brian would rely on others to help him with the details. When he was looking to become their manager he went to a family friend who was a lawyer (E. Rex Makin) to help him draw up a fair contract.

Why is it that Epstein is criticised so much for various deals, including the Selteab deal, and those he employed to help him with those deals – which by the time of the Selteab deal included some of the top entertainment legal brains in the world, never get a mention?

As mmm pointed out above, it was new territory, and nobody truly knew what they were doing. They were making it up from day to day. Why Brian should be criticised more for the mistakes, than those he employed to let him know he was making a mistake, is beyond my ken.

Regardless of how many people looked it over and who they were the final responsibility lies with Brian, the same with any other company. For all we know he went against the advice given or was persuaded by the other side to sign anyway or was deceived, really did think he was getting the majority share, never bothered to check and signed anyway.

Maybe a book out there documents how the merchandise deal went down. Anyone read it?

"Well, probably we'll sell less records, less people'll go to see the film, we'll write less songs, and we'll all die of failure" (John Lennon 8/64)
5 January 2014
1.14pm
guitarman
London, UK
The Indra
Forum Posts: 42
Member Since:
28 June 2013
Offline
20

meanmistermustard said

mja6758 said
I have to agree with both of you on the Selteab deal. Yes, it was a lousy stupid deal. No arguing there. However, you argue as if Brian walked into a meeting, was offered a lousy deal that his lawyers never bothered to look at, and signed the deal without any advice.

Until the last moment the contact was signed, it would have passed through many hands at NEMS, or associated with NEMS. Why does nobody ever mention that all those lawyers and others who Brian employed to help guide him, appear to have said nothing about the unfairness of the deal.

And remember, from his first association with The Beatles, we have evidence that Brian would rely on others to help him with the details. When he was looking to become their manager he went to a family friend who was a lawyer (E. Rex Makin) to help him draw up a fair contract.

Why is it that Epstein is criticised so much for various deals, including the Selteab deal, and those he employed to help him with those deals – which by the time of the Selteab deal included some of the top entertainment legal brains in the world, never get a mention?

As mmm pointed out above, it was new territory, and nobody truly knew what they were doing. They were making it up from day to day. Why Brian should be criticised more for the mistakes, than those he employed to let him know he was making a mistake, is beyond my ken.

Regardless of how many people looked it over and who they were the final responsibility lies with Brian, the same with any other company. For all we know he went against the advice given or was persuaded by the other side to sign anyway or was deceived, really did think he was getting the majority share, never bothered to check and signed anyway.

Maybe a book out there documents how the merchandise deal went down. Anyone read it?

There is a book by Peter Doggett called You Never Give Me Your Money which covers this ground. I must dig it out and re-read it. I would guess that the Jonathan Gould book about the Beatles in America probably also covers it. One thing that does seem to be a consistent theme with Brian though is that he was a reluctant delegator (from an early stage) and this was certainly true in regard to the Beatles – he had the final say, no matter what. As to whether he went against advice or refused to take it, I don't know but he certainly didn't have Rex Makin on hand when they conquered America. Perhaps he did take personal responsibility for the Beatles deals and felt he couldn't trust other people – like David Jacobs or Walter Strach. He was certainly in a fragile state at the time, using prescription drugs heavily, gambling compulsively and developing a lot of paranoid tendencies (I'm relying on Ray Coleman for this information). 

Somebody spoke and I went into a dream

Forum Timezone: Europe/London

Most Users Ever Online: 597

Currently Online: Zig, Linde, Beatleva, Oudis, Bulldog
63 Guest(s)

Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)

Top Posters:

meanmistermustard: 9296

mr. Sun king coming together: 6916

parlance: 4936

mithveaen: 4651

Ahhh Girl: 4593

Zig: 3752

Annadog40: 3659

Mr. Kite: 3323

Ron Nasty: 2968

fabfouremily: 2927

Member Stats:

Guest Posters: 87

Members: 2526

Moderators: 4

Admins: 2

Forum Stats:

Groups: 3

Forums: 34

Topics: 3172

Posts: 129990

Newest Members: Ringorules2002, surfjabroni, SaxonMothersSon, HAWAIIBEATLESFAN, all8daysaweek

Moderators: Ahhh Girl (4593), meanmistermustard (9296), Zig (3752), Joe (3418)

Administrators: Joe (3418), Ellie (1)

Members Birthdays
Today: None
Upcoming: Filipe