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The Love You Make by Peter Brown and Steven Gaines
24 February 2014
2.58pm
Billy Rhythm
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PeterWeatherby said
It doesn't help that Brown has zero documented references in his book either.

 

The hard cover copy that I used to own the 1980's must be very different from yours, for I recall that it was very well referenced, and you didn't have to flip to the back to a 'Bibliography' either.  Key quotes and points throughout the book were numbered and the corresponding small print at the bottom of the page referenced Brown's sources.

 

Although Peter Brown was a trusted associate, he was no author and wouldn't have needed Steven Gaines' (who is an author) assistance if he was one.  The "sensationalism" present is to be expected with Gaines' background in writing and journalism, something that I was easily able to look past with the many well referenced historical facts present.  I remember Mimi being portrayed pretty much as she's always been in "other biographies", and she was human despite her "stiff upper lip", just because she rarely displayed it to others doesn't mean that she wasn't capable of it ("sobbing") and losing a close family member to such horrific circumstances could very well have been something that opened the floodgates.

 

Peter Brown, although he certainly could've chosen someone else to author his memoires, isn't so much as directly sensationalizing The Beatles' Story himself as he's sharing his own personal experiences to an author who's job is to make it into a 'BestSeller', and yeah that means presenting it in a certain spotlight for the masses.  Peter Brown was there throughout their whole wild ride to fame once NEMS got involved and was very close to Brian Epstein personally, that's not a claim that very many people can make.  Sure it doesn't automatically exempt him from being capable of lying, but before the book was released there was no history of Brown falsifying records and his character was never in question by anyone.  He was one of a select few that was genuinely trusted by The Beatles and, yes on a personal level he betrayed that trust, but I believe that that's because he was being brutally honest about his experiences with The Beatles for Steven Gaines to present for public consumption...:-)

 

24 February 2014
4.30pm
meanmistermustard
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I have two copies (1983 hardback, 1984 paperback) and neither have references. Just butting in.

Don’t make your love suffer insecurities, trade the baggage of self to set another one free. ('Paper Skin' - Kendall Payne)
24 February 2014
5.03pm
Billy Rhythm
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meanmistermustard said
I have two copies (1983 hardback, 1984 paperback) and neither have references. Just butting in.

 

Well, my copy definitely did and it's one of the things that I remembered really appreciated about the book, so I'm not sure why subsequent copies would've omitted such an important feature but my copy had numbered references throughout.  For example, the "revelation" that John and Brian slept together was referenced with the admission by John Lennon that he "slept with Brian Epstein because he wanted to see what f**cking a guy was like" to Hunter Davies below on the very same page.  He also made note of the widely believed stories that weren't true, such as the popular belief that the Maharishi had made sexual advances towards Mia Farrow, when in fact it was someone else in the camp.  The book was given to me by a friend for a gift which I've since passed on like all books I read, but I do remember receiving it close to release time and it was well referenced...:-) 

24 February 2014
5.28pm
meanmistermustard
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Billy Rhythm said

meanmistermustard said
I have two copies (1983 hardback, 1984 paperback) and neither have references. Just butting in.

 

Well, my copy definitely did and it's one of the things that I remembered really appreciated about the book, so I'm not sure why subsequent copies would've omitted such an important feature but my copy had numbered references throughout.  For example, the "revelation" that John and Brian slept together was referenced with the admission by John Lennon that he "slept with Brian Epstein because he wanted to see what f**cking a guy was like" to Hunter Davies below on the very same page.  He also made note of the widely believed stories that weren't true, such as the popular belief that the Maharishi had made sexual advances towards Mia Farrow, when in fact it was someone else in the camp.  The book was given to me by a friend for a gift which I've since passed on like all books I read, but I do remember receiving it close to release time and it was well referenced...:-) 

I have no reason to not believe you, just butting in i was.

Don’t make your love suffer insecurities, trade the baggage of self to set another one free. ('Paper Skin' - Kendall Payne)
24 February 2014
5.52pm
DrBeatle
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meanmistermustard said
I have two copies (1983 hardback, 1984 paperback) and neither have references. Just butting in.

Yeah, the copy I read (my uncle's) is the '83 edition, no references or footnotes to be found.

 

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24 February 2014
6.38pm
PeterWeatherby
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Ok, maybe I shouldn't have been so absolute in saying there were "no references" - because Billy Rhythm is correct, there are occasional footnotes on the bottom of some pages, usually delineated in the text with an asterisk or a cross. However, they are few and far between, and many of them are just further clarifications/explanations/claims that don't point to another source, so most of these notes aren't really true references as such.

A few more examples: he says that George had been "diligently studying" the sitar ever since filming Help!, and used it on both "Norwegian Wood" as well as "Rain," which "closed with one of George's neo-Indian ragas." George didn't really begin to get serious with the sitar until mid-1966 when he became Ravi Shankar's student, and even on "Norwegian Wood," he was so unfamiliar with the instrument that he had to re-tune it "to Western notes" according to The Beatles on the Record. And no reputable source I've ever read has claimed that anyone played the sitar on "Rain," much less that the song featured a "neo-Indian raga" at the end.

Brown also claims, on that magical night when Paul met Linda for the first time at the Bag O'Nails, that "I introduced Linda to him." Every other source I've read, including this web site and Paul's own repeated recollections given in interviews, says that Paul very nervously introduced himself to Linda at the last possible moment, just as she was leaving the club for the night.

Here is Paul's story, from the "Driving Rain" interview, on the song "There Must Have Been Magic":

'There Must Have Been Magic'

This is about meeting Linda - 'it must have been magic the night that we met'. I met Linda in a club and I always thought years after, particularly after she died, that if I hadn't stood up that night in a club we might never have met again. It was something I never normally did; I wouldn't normally stand up as someone was about to leave and say 'Er, excuse me, hello.…' I didn't do that. It was a bit embarrassing for a young guy to do that. I didn't normally do that but it was just one of those things that I felt I just had to do that night - 'Hi, um, I'm Paul, who are you?' And she sort of smiled and said 'Linda'. I said 'Er, we're going onto another club. Are you going home? Shall we meet up at this other club?' We were in The Bag O'Nails and we said we'd meet up in The Speakeasy. Which we did. So 'Magic' is a song about that; it must have been some sort of magic that made me do that. Because if I hadn't done that I might not have met her again.

That's what I mean by saying that Brown's account seems a bit over-hyped and over-sensationalized. He's just spinning yarns and telling tall tales, I think. "Oh, yeah, I was the one who introduced Paul and Linda!" Yeah, ok, sure you were ... and Mimi was apparently given to emotional outbursts, and George's first performance of "Ranchee" (whatever the hell that is) didn't really impress John and Paul, and George played sitar on "Rain." Ok. Whatever.

Not a bit like Cagney.
24 February 2014
6.56pm
DrBeatle
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^all great points, and among the many good reasons that most serious Beatles fans don't consider the book to be an essential book when it comes to factual accounts of their career.

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24 February 2014
10.00pm
Billy Rhythm
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PeterWeatherby said 

A few more examples: he says that George had been "diligently studying" the sitar ever since filming Help!, and used it on both "Norwegian Wood" as well as "Rain," which "closed with one of George's neo-Indian ragas." George didn't really begin to get serious with the sitar until mid-1966 when he became Ravi Shankar's student, and even on "Norwegian Wood," he was so unfamiliar with the instrument that he had to re-tune it "to Western notes" according to The Beatles on the Record. And no reputable source I've ever read has claimed that anyone played the sitar on "Rain," much less that the song featured a "neo-Indian raga" at the end.

Yeah, I didn't read Brown's book to be educated on their recording history, but if you wanna put so much emphasis on these paltry details then what about The Beatles' 'Anthology'?  Ringo asks "Which one of his (George's songs) was on 'Revolver'?"  Should we discount everything that Ringo says during the 'Anthology' simply because he couldn't recall the name of even "one" of three George Harrison songs on 'Revolver'?  George didn't even remember visiting Shea Stadium more than once during the 'Anthology', I guess we'd better dismiss everything he says throughout as well then.  Every volume/documentary on The Beatles has conflicting/inconsistent information, that I've come to expect, but when you line up Brown's book with Neil Aspinall's 'Anthology' memoires in addition to John, Paul, George & Ringo's own comments, there's a lot of corroborating accounts that are just told from each different person's personal viewpoint...:-)

 

30 May 2014
12.03am
unclegilly
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" The Love you make" was one if not the first " tell all books" by a real insider Peter Brown. it does offer some gossipy goodies and is much more engrossing than Hunter Davies authorized snooze fest. Some people don't want the BEATLES to have blemishes LENNON always said they had many ( God bless him). Another along the same lines is Alistair Taylors' book, " With the Beatles" this book suffers from having a lot of info that could be picked up anywhere, but there are some really interesting things that could only come from a BEATLES insider. I think MACCA has severed ties with him also.

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3 June 2014
3.34pm
DrBeatle
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unclegilly said
" The Love you make" was one if not the first " tell all books" by a real insider Peter Brown. it does offer some gossipy goodies and is much more engrossing than Hunter Davies authorized snooze fest. Some people don't want the BEATLES to have blemishes LENNON always said they had many ( God bless him). Another along the same lines is Alistair Taylors' book, " With the Beatles" this book suffers from having a lot of info that could be picked up anywhere, but there are some really interesting things that could only come from a BEATLES insider. I think MACCA has severed ties with him also.

 

For me it has NOTHING to do with not wanting them to have blemishes...I'm obviously mature enough and secure enough in my love for the band that such things don't matter to me. For me, it's more to do with the fact that there are so many inaccuracies in the book, and sections where he is writing AS THOUGH IT WERE FACT what was said and done when he was not even THERE and no one who was has gone on record about it.

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3 June 2014
10.47pm
unclegilly
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DrBeatle said

unclegilly said
" The Love you make" was one if not the first " tell all books" by a real insider Peter Brown. it does offer some gossipy goodies and is much more engrossing than Hunter Davies authorized snooze fest. Some people don't want the BEATLES to have blemishes LENNON always said they had many ( God bless him). Another along the same lines is Alistair Taylors' book, " With the Beatles" this book suffers from having a lot of info that could be picked up anywhere, but there are some really interesting things that could only come from a BEATLES insider. I think MACCA has severed ties with him also.

 

For me it has NOTHING to do with not wanting them to have blemishes...I'm obviously mature enough and secure enough in my love for the band that such things don't matter to me. For me, it's more to do with the fact that there are so many inaccuracies in the book, and sections where he is writing AS THOUGH IT WERE FACT what was said and done when he was not even THERE and no one who was has gone on record about it.

Brown has ( had) enough credibility  and was there on many occassions when these naughty bits happened period.

28 September 2014
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Phil74501
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This is the first Beatles book I bought, way back in the 80's.  I've read this book several times over the years.  I do remember it causing some controversy when it came out. 

Brown was more of a business contact of the Beatles, not a day to day personal friend of theirs.  The things he mentions about Brian, or Apple goings on, I would give credibility to.  He saw/heard them first hand.  The rest is nothing more than office gossip.  I seem to recall the, possible, sexual encounter between John and Brian being portrayed as definitely having happened.  Brian and John go to Spain alone, John just lays there in the dark, totally still from fright, while Brian does his thing.  If it's true, the only way Brown would know about it is if Brian told him.  Unless John went around bragging to the guys about it, which I find unlikely.  

I know the book as several factual errors in it.  Most books about the Beatles do.  You're dealing with people who are relying on 30 or 40 year old memories.  One person will say A happened, the next one will tell you B happened.  In the end it all comes down to what you want to believe.  The Beatles have long since reached such mythical status, that a large percentage of people don't want to know the real truth.  That they were 4, imperfect, humans.  They chased more than their share of girls, got drunk and stoned, like every other 20 something guy in the sixties did, or tried to do. 

30 September 2014
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Ron Nasty
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Phil74501 said
Brown was more of a business contact of the Beatles, not a day to day personal friend of theirs.

I have to disagree on this point, @Phil74501. Peter Brown was too much a part of the inner circle to be dismissed as a mere business contact, and while no Neil or Mal, he was definitely a friend. One of the criticisms of Brown when the book came out (including from Paul and Linda) was that it was betrayal by a friend.

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As RN said, welcome @Phil74501! You can introduce yourself to the forum here.

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5 October 2014
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DrBeatle
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unclegilly said

DrBeatle said

unclegilly said
" The Love you make" was one if not the first " tell all books" by a real insider Peter Brown. it does offer some gossipy goodies and is much more engrossing than Hunter Davies authorized snooze fest. Some people don't want the BEATLES to have blemishes LENNON always said they had many ( God bless him). Another along the same lines is Alistair Taylors' book, " With the Beatles" this book suffers from having a lot of info that could be picked up anywhere, but there are some really interesting things that could only come from a BEATLES insider. I think MACCA has severed ties with him also.

 

For me it has NOTHING to do with not wanting them to have blemishes...I'm obviously mature enough and secure enough in my love for the band that such things don't matter to me. For me, it's more to do with the fact that there are so many inaccuracies in the book, and sections where he is writing AS THOUGH IT WERE FACT what was said and done when he was not even THERE and no one who was has gone on record about it.

Brown has ( had) enough credibility  and was there on many occassions when these naughty bits happened period.

 

He was there in Spain with Brian and John? He was in LA with Paul in '68? He was in Hamburg pre-'62, and on tour in the US with them '64-'66? My point exactly :-p

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6 October 2014
6.48pm
Billy Rhythm
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DrBeatle said

  
 
For me, it's more to do with the fact that there are so many inaccuracies in the book, and sections where he is writing AS THOUGH IT WERE FACT what was said and done when he was not even THERE and no one who was has gone on record about it.

"so many inaccuracies"?  Some things are perhaps open to debate based on the fact that it came through second-hand information, but what about the many accuracies presented throughout that were brought to light here for the very first time?  Take Peter Brown's account of their horrific experience in The Philippines, which up until this book's release had been reduced to a simple "Beatles Snub President" headline with very little details about what had actually happened there by anyone before.  Peter Brown's "tale" proved to be spot on when the subject was later covered on The Beatles' 'Anthology', Neil Aspinall confirmed his story about the Authorities taking the boys out to sea via a surprise boat ride immediately upon their arrival to separate them from their luggage & equipment where it was believed that their marijuana supply had in fact been discovered but overlooked to avoid a National Incident, and even Paul McCartney one of Brown's staunchest critics verified that Mal Evans, while being removed from the plane sitting on the tarmac trying to get them out of the country, did indeed turn around in tears and instruct them to tell his wife that he loved her out of fear for his life.

 

Peter Brown gave, what I feel, about as accurate as possible account based off of the interviews by the rare select group of individuals who WERE THERE interviewed specially for the occasion, not to mention that he WAS THERE for many of the events accurately described in this book.  He doesn't always paint The Beatles as Deities and many simply don't want to believe that they could be so Human, in some cases.   Rather than retelling a different version of their story, Peter Brown for me personally, simply filled in a lot of the blanks that had been long kept from the public by design...:-)

 

  

7 October 2014
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DrBeatle
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We're going around in circle about this book...we're never gonna agree. I've read the book a few times and while there are some good bits in it and I couldn't give two shits whether he portrays the guys as deities or realistically, the point is he claims to tell what was said and done as fact when he wasn't there in far too many anecdotes that I can't take it seriously. 

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7 October 2014
1.56am
Billy Rhythm
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DrBeatle said
We're going around in circle about this book...we're never gonna agree.

That's all very fine, but you've failed to effectively demonstrate what exactly you mean by "so many inaccuracies".  Your "he was not even THERE" statement isn't nearly enough to uncategorically dismiss all of Peter Brown's claims, if that were the case, then we should all reject Mark Lewisohn's diatribes for he most certainly "was not even THERE".  Even Sir George Martin all but confirms many of the writings contained in this book when going by the quote given by someone earlier on in this thread.  So, you have The Beatles, their Road Manager & their Producer, among many others personally verifying what's written here, yet some of you seem to prefer an external "paper trail" analysis by an "outsider" instead, go figure...:-)   

7 October 2014
2.49am
Musketeer Gripweed (kezron9)
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I always thought that Paul's fall out with Peter over the book lead me to believe there was definitely truth to what he was saying. I can see how he would be mad from a friend writing it. I take everything with a grain of salt, but I would much rather have the stories told and let the reader judge then not hear them at all. It's definitely hard for Paul to see that angle since theres so much personal information about his life divulged from a friend. I think the same issue caused his falling out with Denny Laine also from his interviews his girl friend from the 80's gave.

 

This is actually a similar issue I hear a lot regarding the Dakata Days by John Green The Lennons Tarot reader and Fred Seamen's Last Day's of John Lennon, Johns personal assistant. People seem to think much of the books were fabricated because theres no sources besides their first person accounts. 

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