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The Love You Make by Peter Brown and Steven Gaines
1 March 2011
2.03am
MotherNaturesDaughter
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When I was in Fort Wayne this weekend my mom sister and I went into the Barnes and Noble there to wait for my brother and dad. And when we went in I picked up this book to just read for as long as we were there. So from what I read (the foreward and some of the introduction) it looks like it could be quite an insightful book. I'm just wondering if anyone else as read it and if it's worth the read.

"I am definitely a mad man with a box."- Matt Smith as the 11th Doctor of Doctor Who (Episode 1 Season 5: The Eleventh Hour)
1 March 2011
2.12am
GniknuS
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Haven't read it, but nice to know we have a fellow Midwesterner on the forum, I'm from Ohio and Indiana is just a beautiful state. a-hard-days-night-george-10

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1 March 2011
2.24am
mr. Sun king coming together
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MND, not much to suggest it to you. It's okay, but nothing Earth Shattering. I'm now inspired to find it and reread it, just for better reviewing.

I tried to think of something powerful and moving… and failed.  "You were given a choice between war and dishonor - you chose dishonor, and you shall have war" - Winston Churchill
1 March 2011
10.59pm
Von Bontee
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It was the first Beatles bio I ever read, back in '84. Like Mr. Sun King says, nothing earth-shattering that I can recall.

I think this book doesn't have the best reputation, but I'm not really sure why.  

One day, a tape-op got a tape on backwards, he went to play it, and it was all "Neeeradno-undowarrroom" and it was "Wow! Sounds Indian!" -- Paul McCartney
1 March 2011
11.03pm
mr. Sun king coming together
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Possibly because Paul Hated it. Take a look at this. (About Peter Brown)

LINDA: (pauses) "He was a friend. He was the one who introduced Paul and me… A man I trusted. When I was going to the hospital to have Stella, I handed him my baby, Mary, to hold. I wouldn't trust my baby to anyone but a friend. Now it's like he doesn't exist. And his book… well, it doesn't matter what he wrote, because he betrayed a trust. We decided not to read it, but we heard things. We put the copy he sent us in the fire and I photographed it as it burned, page by page. As to what he wrote about Paul or about John's experiences, ask Paul himself. He's coming back."

 

(Paul rejoins the conversation)

PLAYBOY: "We were talking about what Peter Brown wrote in his book."

PAUL: "Yeah, he told us he was going to write about the music of the Sixties, not a book about the Beatles. I took him into my house, something we don't do; we had lunch, showed him the kids, showed him around our village. I actually thought he was a friend. so to find out that he isn't is no big deal. But I mean, I hear he said John Lennon had a gay thing with Brian Epstein when they went to Spain together once. That's been rumored for years. I mean, was he in the room with them? It's probably just wishful thinking on his part. But I'll tell you what's naughty about it– that John's not here to answer it, and neither is Brian. All that stuff that's written about us, I just hope that people who've sort of heard of our music, vaguely, know what the Beatles, or the ex-Beatles, were… and it wasn't what's been written. I mean, John's time and effort were, in the main, spent on pretty honorable stuff. As for the other side, well, nobody's perfect, nobody's Jesus. And look what they did to him."

I tried to think of something powerful and moving… and failed.  "You were given a choice between war and dishonor - you chose dishonor, and you shall have war" - Winston Churchill
2 March 2011
10.59am
Joe
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I've not read the Peter Brown book, but I think its reputation has possibly been unfairly sullied by the McCartneys' reaction. They didn't read it, after all, only heard about what was in it. If all it says that Lennon and Epstein may have had sex while in Spain, well it wouldn't be the first book to make the allegation. According to Pete Shotton's book they didn't quite make the beast in Barcelona, but a bit of manual work may have taken place (sorry if that offends anyone; I was trying to be subtle) – IIRC Shotton quotes Lennon as saying it happened, though the book was written many years after the event.

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2 March 2011
6.05pm
mr. Sun king coming together
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Joe, the book was written in 1983, so it would have been one of the first to deal with the allegations

I tried to think of something powerful and moving… and failed.  "You were given a choice between war and dishonor - you chose dishonor, and you shall have war" - Winston Churchill
3 March 2011
4.46pm
Joe
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Same year as Shotton's book then. Not sure which came first. But I presume the Epstein/Lennon tales were well known anyway – they were all over Liverpool back in 1963.

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Can buy me love! Please consider using these links to support the Beatles Bible: Amazon | iTunes

3 March 2011
8.00pm
mr. Sun king coming together
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Joe said:

Same year as Shotton's book then. Not sure which came first. But I presume the Epstein/Lennon tales were well known anyway – they were all over Liverpool back in 1963.


True, True. But nobody of any authority could validate the claim.
I tried to think of something powerful and moving… and failed.  "You were given a choice between war and dishonor - you chose dishonor, and you shall have war" - Winston Churchill
3 March 2011
10.40pm
vonbontee
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Well, as best I recall, Brown (unlike Albert Goldman) didn't make any allegations about the "gay thing", just acknowledged the fact that there were rumours that were already extant. I can't see how that's any different from writing of the "Paul is dead" rumour/furor, which Brown also did, quite reasonably enough. He certainly wasn't accusing Paul of being dead, or the Beatles of deliberately planning some fake conspiracy.

I think Paul's "wishful thinking" remark was uncalled-for.

I just want to play. I’d like to think I could work opposite Sinatra, B.B. King, the Beatles, or a polka band... - Jazz musician Rahsaan Roland Kirk, 1967
3 March 2011
10.51pm
mr. Sun king coming together
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Von, I Remember Him confirming the Rumors. Still can't find my copy, though.

I tried to think of something powerful and moving… and failed.  "You were given a choice between war and dishonor - you chose dishonor, and you shall have war" - Winston Churchill
14 September 2011
9.19pm
meanmistermustard
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Ive always thought that the claims in this book were overall fiction but found an interview where in 1988 George Martin mentions this book. During discussing (and lambasting) The Lives Of John Lennon by Albert Goldman, George says "[Peter] Brown did his own hatchett job, which was very nasty. He didnt actually write any lies, but he presented all the steamy bits as if there was nothing else".

Which suggests whatever is in The Love You Make is true.

I havent read it yet but plan to after finally finishing Jonathan Gould's Cant Buy Me Love.

Any thoughts?

"Well, probably we'll sell less records, less people'll go to see the film, we'll write less songs, and we'll all die of failure" (John Lennon 8/64)
14 September 2011
9.37pm
mr. Sun king coming together
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You would have to be really desperate. It's not that bad, from what I remember. It's nothing new.

I tried to think of something powerful and moving… and failed.  "You were given a choice between war and dishonor - you chose dishonor, and you shall have war" - Winston Churchill
14 September 2011
11.06pm
meanmistermustard
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mr. Sun king coming together said:

You would have to be really desperate. It's not that bad, from what I remember. It's nothing new.

I have plenty to read, i just found a copy for £2. There are so many books that ive started and never finished or never got around to. This very well could be another thats added to the boxes.

I was more intriqued by it after George Martin said whats in it is true.

"Well, probably we'll sell less records, less people'll go to see the film, we'll write less songs, and we'll all die of failure" (John Lennon 8/64)
15 September 2011
2.05pm
Into the Sky with Diamonds
New York
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Definitely a good book. It was a major reference for mine.

(Mothernaturesdaughter, my wife's family is from Indiana – great place)

"Into the Sky with Diamonds" (the Beatles and the Race to the Moon – a history)
16 October 2011
8.36pm
IMDeWalrus
Terrace BC Canada
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I have to admit I'm not a huge fan of this book, although I'm not quite as negative about it as I was when I first bought it back in the early 80's.   At that time, I was tremendously disappointed, because I expected a good insider look at what The Beatles were like and how it felt to be in the middle of Beatlemania (after all, Brown is the only one of that crowd mentioned by name in a Beatles song).   Instead, it was as much gossip as it was actual observation -- and Brown seemed to sneer at everyone through it all, which seemed surprising since he considered himself a friend of The Beatles & their team.   For example, when he writes about Neil Aspinall, he calls his attempts to put together a film documentary of the band "pathetic" -- of course we all saw the results of Aspinall's "pathetic" efforts in 1995's BEATLES ANTHOLOGY.   Brown was also the first to "break the news" that George had an affair with Ringo's first wife, Maureen… but again, he does it in a gossipy way ("neither Patty or Maureen will confirm this story, but they don't deny it either"), and he also alleges, without proof, that Paul would come into the studio after Ringo went home and re-drum all his parts ("it was a poorly kept secret", writes Brown).   Of course, Brown was never part of the Beatles' recording circle, so his information wouldn't be that much better than yours or mine.   And he writes how George, visiting Haight-Ashbury in 1967, had to flee the crowd because they wanted him to play guitar and he was too stoned (there are photos of that visit showing him strumming away with a smile on his face).

Still, this book has a lot of first-hand information about a guy who really did seem to be "pathetic" -- Brian Epstein, as well as the goings-on at Apple… how accurate it is, you never know, but it's interesting reading, and like I say, I'm a bit less negative about the book as a whole than I was when it was new.   

One final note to consider:  in Tony Barrow's recent book  "John, Paul, George, Ringo… and me", Peter Brown isn't mentioned once by name -- although, when discussing Epstein's death, Barrow does darkly write "One man who liked to be known as one of Epstein's closest friends.. pulled out a pile of expensively handmade silk shirts.. monogrammed BE.  He asked without a trace of emotion, let alone grief: `do you think I'll be able to unpick these initials?' "   I always wondered who Barrow was writing about -- of course, it would be gossipy of me to suggest it might be Peter Brown, wouldn't it?

I've got nothing to say, but it's okay.. GOOD MORNING! GOOD MORNING!! GOOD MORNING!!!
16 October 2011
10.17pm
meanmistermustard
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IMDeWalrus said:

Still, this book has a lot of first-hand information about a guy who really did seem to be "pathetic" — Brian Epstein, as well as the goings-on at Apple… how accurate it is, you never know, but it's interesting reading, and like I say, I'm a bit less negative about the book as a whole than I was when it was new.   

Why was Brian "pathetic"? He was naive in many of his business deals looking back but he deserves a heck of a lot of credit for bringing The Beatles onto the global market. Brian gets far more stick than deserved. A tortured soul who gave every part of himself to a band who were going nowhere when he met them.

"Well, probably we'll sell less records, less people'll go to see the film, we'll write less songs, and we'll all die of failure" (John Lennon 8/64)
17 October 2011
2.38am
Into the Sky with Diamonds
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Brian Epstein was all of these things; no Epstein, no Beatles. – I think it was George who said M.B.E. should have stood for Mr. Brian Epstein.

But Epstein was nevertheless pathetic in the literal sense of the word – deserving of pity or empathy.

He was gay and Jewish – not a good combination in the UK of the 1960s. Tortured, probably craving for some acceptance and recognition, and living a punishing underground sex life.

For such an accomplished, honest, and giving man I'd say he was worthy of empathy.

"Into the Sky with Diamonds" (the Beatles and the Race to the Moon – a history)
17 October 2011
1.22pm
meanmistermustard
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Throughout my upbringing pathetic was meant to mean useless, really poor, not good enough, dire e.g. 'that attempt was pathetic',  its very rarely used in line with 'evoking sympathy' as defined by the dictionary.com. So maybe its a colloquialism.

Brian was also a failed thespian/actor who throughout his time of management retained a desire to succeed in that art, tho was never deemed good enough. 

For someone with absolutely no experience in pop management to achieve such success as a manager, not only with the Beatles, is quite remarkable.  

"Well, probably we'll sell less records, less people'll go to see the film, we'll write less songs, and we'll all die of failure" (John Lennon 8/64)
19 October 2011
12.48am
IMDeWalrus
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There's no question Brian played a crucial role in The Beatles Story -- no Brian, no George Martin.   Brian's contacts were invaluable in securing the band a recording contract, and there's also no doubt he cared deeply about The Beatles.

It just seems a shame he never seemed able to enjoy that success -- and very sad that his life ended the way it did.   So perhaps "pitiable" is a better word than "pathetic" -- less judgmental.   

I've got nothing to say, but it's okay.. GOOD MORNING! GOOD MORNING!! GOOD MORNING!!!
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