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"The Beatles as Musicians", the Walter Everett books
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21 January 2010
7.25pm
8tracktgdesk
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Anyway, I guess you've established that you think the studios should be the starting point for any discussion. But to keep coming back to it time and time again might inhibit others from joining in what might otherwise be a varied discussion. This is a forum for everybody, not just for musicians, studio staff or historians (amateur or otherwise), and I wouldn't want to keep covering the same old ground unless it's directly relevant. Would that be OK?



Joe

I found  some parts  of  Geoff Emericks  book rather  fascinating   especially the parts of about the" Band On The Run"  album and Nigeria.  The actual  words  of McCartney's song actual make sense in the context of what he wrote.  Anyway, I just see  Beatles music  much differently  then most people. After I started reading the book  "Recording The Beatles" (which is well worth the money) my opinions drastically  changed about the Beatles songs.  I  always  thought that their was a lot more to their music then  what was previously  written. The book Revolution in the Head pointed me in the right direction.  Then  I accidentally  found the  holy grail of Beatles book (Recording The Beatles) and a lot of my opinions  came up to be quite  correct.  The Beatles sound, like any other  group is more then the  performance done in  a studio room, it's the recording console  the acoustics,  the microphones,  the tape machine and all the other  equipment that is used during the session. It's  looking at music  from another angle of perspective that most people can't even  comprehend. With today's digital music and sampling,  this art is lost and  artist have moved to simplicity with computers  then  developing  sound over tracks, with the  minimal amount  of technology. At it's  core the Beatles music is   the development of a group  along side the development of studio equipment.  A lot of listeners just don't understand that concept.  I think if a lot of Beatles fans came up to a higher education of learning Beatles music then they  would  have a lot better understanding of  music at many levels.  I am all for, educating people  about the Beatles music , but not  with pushing it on someone who doesn't   real  care. It's a balance, to  appease the people who are  amateurs and to find other forum users that  will be able to fully understand what you are trying  to put across.


I am just very passionate about Beatles music  and Abbey Road Studios and this comes accross  rather strong at times.


Anything you  want, sounds good to me Laugh


John Senchak  Beatlogist   john@antihotmail.com

"Sitting  in a english  garden, waiting for the sun"

22 January 2010
10.12am
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mjb
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I am just very passionate about Beatles music  and Abbey Road Studios and this comes accross  rather strong at times.


I enjoy your posts because you ARE very passionate, but like you say yourself, you sometimes forget others aren't quite into the real 'nitty-gritty' of the recordings and you give off the impression they are not worthy!

I look forward to some more discussions about Everett et all, so don't go too far away.  I've just finished reading about the recording of Revolver in Everett's second volume.  My, that was a lot different to anything before wasn't it? Talk about ADT overload! To be honest I think I need to read over it again whilst listening to the actual tracks.

"If we feel our heads starting to swell.....we just look at Ringo!"
23 January 2010
4.31am
8tracktgdesk
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I enjoy your posts because you ARE very passionate, but like you say yourself, you sometimes forget others aren't quite into the real 'nitty-gritty' of the recordings and you give off the impression they are not worthy!

I look forward to some more discussions about Everett et all, so don't go too far away.  I've just finished reading about the recording of Revolver in Everett's second volume.  My, that was a lot different to anything before wasn't it? Talk about ADT overload! To be honest I think I need to read over it again whilst listening to the actual tracks.


Being  very passionate about something is great but overstepping your boundaries  can be annoying , I agree.


Something about the Beatles music going through those vacuum tubes in the recording console to me is pure magic. The thought of the electrons being amplified in those tubes  can not be described in any book. Just think of the orchestral  crescendo in " Day in the Life" going though those tubes, it just  amazes me. Those tubes should have been kept and displayed in a music museum with the caption " These vacuum tubes  amplified the Beatles  music , created their amazing  sound, and a took one hell of a beating"


You could  right a book  just of the recording consoles alone, and it would be highly fascinating.


Enough of my own  ADT overloading.  Vocal overdub  track 2, the light is one !!!


I need to check out  Everett's book maybe, I am missing some information that I should know about.


John Senchak Beatlogist john@antihotmail.com

23 January 2010
9.33am
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mjb
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I need to check out  Everett's book maybe, I am missing some information that I should know about.


John Senchak Beatlogist john@antihotmail.com


You haven't got them Surprised Oh my goodness.............what are you missing out on! You'll need to take recluse in a darkened room after digesting those I tell you! You MUST invest and I await your findings with MUCH INTEREST Laugh

"If we feel our heads starting to swell.....we just look at Ringo!"
29 January 2010
10.23am
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Joe
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Walter Everett's focus is on developments in The Beatles as musicians (as the title suggests): how their songwriting developed, how other musicians influenced them, the songwriting structure, and themes and motifs that recurred (or not) throughout their career. It's not a book about recording technology, though that is touched upon.

The musical notation is valuable in explaining how much of this occurred - none of it is 'pointless' or 'useless information'. It's fascinating.

Here's a layman's example: Ian Macdonald wrote about how Lennon's melodies tended to be horizontal, whereas McCartney's were vertical - ie went up and down the scales, rather than repeating notes. In his questionable Lennon biog, Albert Goldman wrote about how many of Lennon's melodies (All You Need Is Love, Instant Karma, My Mummy's Dead) were based on the melody of Three Blind Mice. Everett takes this to the next level and beyond, giving some astonishing breakdowns of their evolving techniques as songwriters and musicians. It's true that melodies and notes can be manipulated in the studio, but - and I must stress this - that isn't the point here.

You're welcome to start a thread elsewhere about Abbey Road technology, but let's try to keep this a discussion about Walter Everett's books.

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Can buy me love! Please consider using these links to support the Beatles Bible: Amazon | iTunes

30 January 2010
8.47am
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mjb
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As you know (well those of you who have been following) I'm working my way through these books chronologically. I've now got to the start of Magical Mystery Tour.

I must admit that it took until Revolver for it to get really interesting in terms of the recording proccess becoming more challenging and inventive, but so far I've really enjoyed it.  I do have to skip a lot of the musical notation stuff, but there you go!

"If we feel our heads starting to swell.....we just look at Ringo!"
11 February 2010
3.54pm
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PeterWeatherby
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This sounds fascinating, mjb, thanks for pointing out a book that I would probably really enjoy.  I've been a songwriter/guitarist/pianist for almost 20 years now, so this kind of musical notation detail that you're talking about would most likely be a gold mine for me.  How many books are in this set?

Not a bit like Cagney.
11 February 2010
4.58pm
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mjb
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PeterWeatherby said:This sounds fascinating, mjb, thanks for pointing out a book that I would probably really enjoy.  I've been a songwriter/guitarist/pianist for almost 20 years now, so this kind of musical notation detail that you're talking about would most likely be a gold mine for me.  How many books are in this set?


There are two Peter. Are you UK based? If so, visit Amazon.  Thery're not cheap (from anywhere). The pair cost me just of £50 Surprised

"If we feel our heads starting to swell.....we just look at Ringo!"
11 February 2010
8.26pm
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Joe
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I absolutely recommend both volumes. I've got copies of both, though I've not got very far reading them yet (I'm still on the early years, though I've dipped into both).

Google Books has them, though there's no substitute for a proper paper copy.

http://books.google.co.uk/book.....38;f=false
http://books.google.co.uk/book..... 

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Can buy me love! Please consider using these links to support the Beatles Bible: Amazon | iTunes

11 February 2010
8.35pm
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mjb
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Joe said:

I absolutely recommend both volumes. I've got copies of both, though I've not got very far reading them yet (I'm still on the early years, though I've dipped into both).

Google Books has them, though there's no substitute for a proper paper copy.

http://books.google.co.uk/book.....mp;f=false
http://books.google.co.uk/book...... 


Joe - just put it in the bathroom and open it up every time you pay a visit.  That's how I've read it. Thing is, my wife keeps saying "what have you been doing up there all this time?" Laugh

"If we feel our heads starting to swell.....we just look at Ringo!"
11 February 2010
8.48pm
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PeterWeatherby
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mjb said:

Joe - just put it in the bathroom and open it up every time you pay a visit.  That's how I've read it. Thing is, my wife keeps saying "what have you been doing up there all this time?" Laugh


Ha!  I don't suppose it would do to answer, "studying the usage of borrowed chords and contrapuntal bass lines in the latter half of the Beatles' compositional career."

She'd just say you were full of ... well, you know.

Not a bit like Cagney.
20 February 2010
6.16pm
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mjb
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I've finished them both Laugh

What can I say......well as previously stated, they are VERY musically written, so much so that I probably skipped 50%+ of the text purely because I didn't understand it!

In essence Everett breaks down each song recorded with an in depth summary of it's musical value and then he attempts to go into very precise detail about who played what, which instrument was used, how each track was panned in the stereo mix etc. This is the part that interested me.  We know he wasn't there and a good part of it was guesswork (i.e. he assumes George used his Telecaster, or John played the tambourine when in fact it could have been his Fender or Ringo was playing the tambourine), but he does display a good knowledge  and I would imagine that maybe his training allows him to identify the sound of the guitars so that is why he makes the assumption in the first place?

I found it particularly interesting that he spotted things being played that I hadn't heard before, or that he was able to say how a particular sound had been produced.

Yes I spotted errors. i.e. he states Paul sang backing vocal on Come Together when Paul has admitted he was too frightened to ask John if he could, so John sang both vocals. But does that really matter? I think not.

If you can understand music notation then you will get much more out of these than I did, but they are reference books and I now plan to sit down with the books and play an album and follow his text.  That will most definitely enlighten my enjoyment (and knowledge) orf each song as I hear it and I know these books will be referred to time and time again.

"If we feel our heads starting to swell.....we just look at Ringo!"
27 July 2015
4.17pm
Marcelo
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I'm currently reading the second book, and something that I realized from the first pages is that the author is constantly thowing snarky punches to Macca, while at the same time have a respectful look at Ringo and George, and an almost sacramental look at John.

It's not that I don't have a similar view, but, you know, I'm just a John fanboy, and he is a famous musicologist.a-hard-days-night-john-6

I'd like to say "thank you" on behalf of the group and ourselves and I hope we passed the audition. John Lennon
28 July 2015
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mjb,

"Yes I spotted errors. i.e. he states Paul sang backing vocal on Come Together when Paul has admitted he was too frightened to ask John if he could, so John sang both vocals."

Really?  I never heard that before!  I'm dubious, because I can clearly hear Paul... (Oh oh, I hope I haven't sparked another interminable "ah-ah-ahs in Day in the Life" debate...!ahdn_paul_02

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28 July 2015
4.01am
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meanmistermustard
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Paul's clearly on the track as proven by the isolated backing vocals from 'Rock Band'. Paul overdubbed his vocal later which would account for his quote about being too embarrassed to ask if he could sing with John.

Not as clear when all the vocals are as one but you can still make out Paul.

Don’t make your love suffer insecurities, trade the baggage of self to set another one free. ('Paper Skin' - Kendall Payne)
28 July 2015
1.25pm
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Into the Sky with Diamonds
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My recollection is that McCartney said he was reticent about singing harmony with John.

"Into the Sky with Diamonds" (the Beatles and the Race to the Moon – a history)
28 July 2015
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Ron Nasty
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Paul commented in an interview with the Evening Standard (London newspaper) in 1970:

Even on Abbey Road we don't do harmonies like we used to. I think it's sad. On Come Together I would have liked to sing harmony with John and I think he would have liked me to but I was too embarrassed to ask him and I don't work to the best of my abilities in that situation.

"I only said we were bigger than Rod... and now there's all this!" Ron Nasty

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