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'John' by Cynthia Lennon
27 January 2013
12.10pm
Ron Nasty
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Will people please

stay-on-topic

This is not a Paul/Linda thread. It a John/Cynthia thread, in relation to her second book about John. I responded to a couple of points raised in response to what I said about The Beatles leaving Liverpool. My point was always about John and Cynthia. Stop talking about Paul and Linda, great as their relationship was, it doesn't count in a thread about John and Cynthia! 

 

"I only said we were bigger than Rod... and now there's all this!" Ron Nasty
27 January 2013
12.28pm
DrBeatle
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Getting back on track, John was such a conflicted character because on one hand he had no interest in remaining faithful to her after marriage, yet in many of his letters during the Beatlemania years he laments how he needed to be a better and more faithful husband and father. As someone who has ADHD myself, reading about John in Cyn's book and Philip Norman's book, he exhibits many of the same symptoms.

"I know you, you know me; one thing I can tell you is you got to be free!"

 

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27 January 2013
3.19pm
LongHairedLady
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DrBeatle said
As someone who has ADHD myself, reading about John in Cyn's book and Philip Norman's book, he exhibits many of the same symptoms.

Didn't know that about John, but it doesn't surprise me.  I have it too.  a-hard-days-night-paul-7  "So this is what it feels like, when doves cry".  ahdn_paul_01

"Please don't bring your banjo back, I know where it's been..  I wasn't hardly gone a day, when it became the scene..  Banjos!  Banjos!  All the time, I can't forget that tune..  and if I ever see another banjo, I'm going out and buy a big balloon!"

 

27 January 2013
3.43pm
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There have been other threads where folks discussed whether or not John was bipolar, had ADHD, or any other disorders, for those who wish to read them.

Was John Bipolar

Did John have any disorders?

"Well, probably we'll sell less records, less people'll go to see the film, we'll write less songs, and we'll all die of failure" (John Lennon 8/64)
27 January 2013
5.37pm
Funny Paper
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Sorry, back on track:  Someone in another thread said that John physically abused Cynthia.  Is this true?  And does Cynthia discuss this in her book(s)?

 

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27 January 2013
5.47pm
meanmistermustard
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During the Playboy interviews John was asked about the song Getting Better and replied

LENNON: It is a diary form of writing. All that "I used to be cruel to my woman, I beat her and kept her apart from the things that she loved" was me. I used to be cruel to my woman, and physically -- any woman. I was a hitter. I couldn't express myself and I hit. I fought men and I hit women. That is why I am always on about peace, you see. It is the most violent people who go for love and peace. Everything's the opposite. But I sincerely believe in love and peace. I am not violent man who has learned not to be violent and regrets his violence. I will have to be a lot older before I can face in public how I treated women as a youngster.

Dont know if its in any of Cyth's books as i havent read them.

"Well, probably we'll sell less records, less people'll go to see the film, we'll write less songs, and we'll all die of failure" (John Lennon 8/64)
27 January 2013
5.54pm
Funny Paper
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meanmistermustard said
During the Playboy interviews John was asked about the song Getting Better and replied

LENNON: It is a diary form of writing. All that "I used to be cruel to my woman, I beat her and kept her apart from the things that she loved" was me. I used to be cruel to my woman, and physically -- any woman. I was a hitter. I couldn't express myself and I hit. I fought men and I hit women. That is why I am always on about peace, you see. It is the most violent people who go for love and peace. Everything's the opposite. But I sincerely believe in love and peace. I am not violent man who has learned not to be violent and regrets his violence. I will have to be a lot older before I can face in public how I treated women as a youngster.

Dont know if its in any of Cyth's books as i havent read them.

Thanks for the info.  There's one sentence in there I don't quite get:

"I am not violent man who has learned not to be violent and regrets his violence."

Aside from the apparent typo (shouldn't there be an "a" after the 3rd word?) the sentence doesn't seem to make sense.

Faded flowers, wait in a jar, till the evening is complete... complete... complete... complete...
27 January 2013
7.00pm
Ron Nasty
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Funny Paper said

meanmistermustard said
During the Playboy interviews John was asked about the song Getting Better and replied

LENNON: It is a diary form of writing. All that "I used to be cruel to my woman, I beat her and kept her apart from the things that she loved" was me. I used to be cruel to my woman, and physically -- any woman. I was a hitter. I couldn't express myself and I hit. I fought men and I hit women. That is why I am always on about peace, you see. It is the most violent people who go for love and peace. Everything's the opposite. But I sincerely believe in love and peace. I am not violent man who has learned not to be violent and regrets his violence. I will have to be a lot older before I can face in public how I treated women as a youngster.

Dont know if its in any of Cyth's books as i havent read them.

Thanks for the info.  There's one sentence in there I don't quite get:

"I am not violent man who has learned not to be violent and regrets his violence."

Aside from the apparent typo (shouldn't there be an "a" after the 3rd word?) the sentence doesn't seem to make sense.

meanmistermustard misquoted. I quoted it in another thread, lifting it from Joe's entry on the song. It should read, "I am a violent man who has learned not to be violent and regrets his violence." You replace the "not" with "a" as the third word and it makes, in an imperfect world, perfect sense.

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27 January 2013
7.40pm
meanmistermustard
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Apologies for the misquote, got from an online transcript of the interview, the link is in my last post. And thanks to mja for correcting it.

"Well, probably we'll sell less records, less people'll go to see the film, we'll write less songs, and we'll all die of failure" (John Lennon 8/64)
27 January 2013
8.09pm
unknown
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Funny Paper said
Sorry, back on track:  Someone in another thread said that John physically abused Cynthia.  Is this true?  And does Cynthia discuss this in her book(s)?

 

 

 

 

John was only physically violent towards Cynthia once, and she does talk about it in her book. They separated for three months because of it.

 

 

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27 January 2013
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parlance
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I wonder if there are more incidents than Cynthia admitted to. Hunter Davies' book notes an incident where a cleaning woman at the college caught John hitting Cynthia (it's refernced in the Wikipedia entry on Cynthia).

Edit: I found it – it's a quote from Cynthia in the Davies book (p. 53 of the 2009 edition). "Molly, the cleaning woman, once caught John hitting me, really clouting me. She said I was a silly girl to get mixed up with someone like that."

I suppose it could have been the same incident as the one in John? But she doesn't mention in that book that there was a witness.

parlance

Beware of sadness. It can hit you. It can hurt you. Make you sore and what is more, that is not what you are here for. - George

Check out my fan video for Paul's song "Appreciate" at YouTube and Vimeo.

27 January 2013
11.41pm
DrBeatle
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the one mentioned in her book took place in the basement of the art building outside the ladies room. 

"I know you, you know me; one thing I can tell you is you got to be free!"

 

Please Visit My Website, The Rock and Roll Chemist

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28 January 2013
12.03am
LongHairedLady
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unknown said

John was only physically violent towards Cynthia once, and she does talk about it in her book. They separated for three months because of it.

 

I take from what John has said in interviews that there was most likely more than one occasion.  Just because she didn't talk about it in her book, doesn't mean it didn't happen.  It's difficult to take the "truth" from only one source.  a-hard-days-night-paul-10

"Please don't bring your banjo back, I know where it's been..  I wasn't hardly gone a day, when it became the scene..  Banjos!  Banjos!  All the time, I can't forget that tune..  and if I ever see another banjo, I'm going out and buy a big balloon!"

 

28 January 2013
12.17am
DrBeatle
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Exactly. John's image has been whitewashed a lot by Yoko, especially since his death, and I'm sure Cynthia and Julian don't want to open a lot of old wounds. But chances are if he did it once, he did it more than once. Didn't Thelma Pickles (his girlfriend before Cynthia) claim he hit her, too?

"I know you, you know me; one thing I can tell you is you got to be free!"

 

Please Visit My Website, The Rock and Roll Chemist

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28 January 2013
12.24am
parlance
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DrBeatle said
Exactly. John's image has been whitewashed a lot by Yoko, especially since his death, and I'm sure Cynthia and Julian don't want to open a lot of old wounds. But chances are if he did it once, he did it more than once.

That's also my take on it.

Didn't Thelma Pickles (his girlfriend before Cynthia) claim he hit her, too?

Yes, she did.

parlance

Beware of sadness. It can hit you. It can hurt you. Make you sore and what is more, that is not what you are here for. - George

Check out my fan video for Paul's song "Appreciate" at YouTube and Vimeo.

28 January 2013
7.52pm
Funny Paper
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Thelma Pickles!  What a name!  That name could be a great Beatles song, one of those whimsical references!

 

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28 January 2013
8.19pm
DrBeatle
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Funny Paper said
Thelma Pickles!  What a name!  That name could be a great Beatles song, one of those whimsical references!

 

 

I know, I remember when I first read that name years and years ago, I thought it was either a joke or a typo :lol:

"I know you, you know me; one thing I can tell you is you got to be free!"

 

Please Visit My Website, The Rock and Roll Chemist

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29 January 2013
4.18am
unknown
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LongHairedLady said

unknown said

John was only physically violent towards Cynthia once, and she does talk about it in her book. They separated for three months because of it.

 

Just because she didn't talk about it in her book, doesn't mean it didn't happen.  It's difficult to take the "truth" from only one source.  a-hard-days-night-paul-10

She could be lying because it's embarrassing or blocked it from her memory or something, but she says in her book that was the only time he hit her.

So, although he was still verbally cutting and unkind, he was never again physically violent to me.

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29 January 2013
5.55am
LongHairedLady
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unknown said

She could be lying because it's embarrassing or blocked it from her memory or something, but she says in her book that was the only time he hit her.

So, although he was still verbally cutting and unkind, he was never again physically violent to me.

True, the brain can do that with traumatic memories.  

"Please don't bring your banjo back, I know where it's been..  I wasn't hardly gone a day, when it became the scene..  Banjos!  Banjos!  All the time, I can't forget that tune..  and if I ever see another banjo, I'm going out and buy a big balloon!"

 

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