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What makes a song good?
9 July 2012
3.47am
mr. Sun king coming together
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A few years ago, I used to be mortified if someone didn’t like a song I liked. I couldn’t stand it, I got offended. Now, I’ve got the memo that taste is subjective, and songs I hold dear may be hated by some. But it still makes me wonder – what makes a song good to one, and not to others? (Also, let’s keep it respectful – this is entirely subjective.)
Is it lyrics? Melody? Story behind it? Memories attached? What makes a song tick? Does popularity among the population at large matter? Does the opinion of friends and family help form your opinion?

For me, any song needs something different. It needs… that unexpected twist. Like, Two of Us is an okay song. But I LOVE it. Because , the first time I really paid attention to the lyrics, I heard one line, and it struck me. “You and I have memories longer then the road that stretches out of here”. I don’t know why, but it got me. Or, Florence and The Machine’s My Boy Builds Coffins. I had never found anything to like about the song, but circumstances changed that. My mother was out of town visiting my grandparents, so I had to walk to school Monday morning. When “My Boy Makes Coffins” came on, it took on a whole new level of meaning, and love. And, in a funner (I know it’s not a word – I merely don’t care) example, what about songs you hear for the first time live? At their Friday night show, the Arkells played No Champagne Socialists. I’d never heard the song, but my brother had the album it’s off, so when I borrowed it today, and put on No Champagne Socialists, I fell in love, because of the show.

So, what makes it tick for you?

(If I’m half as incoherent as I bet I am, tell me. I’m exhausted.)

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9 July 2012
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Little Piggy Dragonguy
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I think I have said this before, but what makes a good song for me is the emotion it brings you. Like some songs really aren’t that great, but I like them even more because of a memory attached to them that lets me see something more in the song that that I wouldn’t without that memory. One example is That’s Life by Sinatra, which reminds me of when I went to Disney World last year, because I listened to that song a thousand times on the plane ride there, and that was a pretty happy time, so that song makes me happy.

I don’t think popularity of a song makes a difference of whether or not I like it, but I am definitely more likely to give those songs a listen than I would to go out of my way to find music I like that not many people listen to.

Opinions of myself and family (not really friends because they don’t like most of what I do) do make a difference for me. My brother, for instance really likes The Strokes now. I had heard their music before and didn’t think much of it, but him playing them in the car had me listening to the music closer, and they’re actually pretty good. Another one would be much of The Beatles solo work. Liking them so much just gives me a better appreciation for the individual members, so if I didn’t really listen to The Beatles I don’t think I would like too much of their solo stuff.

 

Also, isn’t it “You and I have memories longer than the road that stretches out ahead“?

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9 July 2012
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Ben Ramon
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paulsbass said
I’ve always been a melody man, I need a good riff or hookline or bassline or some else that grips me.

Definitely agree with this, although I do enjoy some more experimental, atonal stuff from time to time.

That’s one of the reasons I never was into the Smiths or the Kinks, they are lyrics bands, and many ADORE Morrissey or Ray Davies for the lyrics, but that doesn’t do it for me.

They certainly are lyrics bands, but I’d say both of those bands have their share of great melodies and hooks. It’s impossible to argue with the immortal riff and rising hysteria of “You Really Got Me”, or the absolutely beautiful melody and harmonies in “Waterloo Sunset.”

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9 July 2012
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paulsbass said

Ben Ramon said 

It’s impossible to argue with the immortal riff and rising hysteria of “You Really Got Me”, or the absolutely beautiful melody and harmonies in “Waterloo Sunset.”

And I won’t do so!

I meant apart from their five or so great classic songs everybody knows.

I’ve got a two-disc best of and the whole second disc has nothing for me. Primarily later songs, which are said to be lyrically deep, but not memorable to me.

There’s not a single Smiths song I can think of, not a single melody.

I used to be like that with the Smiths but after a few more listens I found the melodies caught onto me a bit more. Their album The Queen is Dead has some great hooks, guitar riffs and basslines, such as “Bigmouth Strikes Again” or “There Is A Light That Never Goes Out.” They obviously don’t jump out at you like a Beatles song would though.

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9 July 2012
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The great thing is that there are so many paths to a good song.

I agree that it starts with the melody.

There are any number of songs that I like without a clue what the lyrics are.

It doesn’t work the other way around. I can’t say, “I love this song but I have no idea what the melody is.”

Having said that, for a song to be great, the lyrics have to strike a chord with me (pun half intended).

Sometimes the melody and lyrics can be so-so, but the production is great (harmonies, clever phrasing of this or that instrument, great instrumental).

And yes, like everyone else, I associate certain songs with periods of my life, and they’ll elicit a smile when I hear them. This is particularly true for my “educational” years. (I’m guessing I’m not alone here.)

"Into the Sky with Diamonds" (the Beatles and the Race to the Moon – a history)

10 July 2012
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Am I the only person here to find lyrical genius can overcome lacklustre melody? Take something like Bruce Springsteen’s The River. I couldn’t hum the tune, but the lyrics make it fantastic. 

What about the affect of the perfect guitar solo? Can an awesome guitar solo make a song for you?

Edit: Also, isn’t it “You and I have memories longer than the road that stretches out ahead“?


Yep, you’re right. I maintain it’s better my way, but whatever.

As if it matters how a man falls down.'

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10 July 2012
11.13am
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mr. Sun king coming together said

Am I the only person here to find lyrical genius can overcome lacklustre melody? Take something like Bruce Springsteen’s The River. I couldn’t hum the tune, but the lyrics make it fantastic. 

 

What about the affect of the perfect guitar solo? Can an awesome guitar solo make a song for you?

I used to think Bob Dylan at his peak was only great because of the fantastic lyrics, but then I realised the melodies, chord progressions and the way he sings are just perfect to exacerbate the lyrical meaning. It really depends on a lot of factors.

SHUT UP - Paulie's talkin'

10 July 2012
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Good words and a good tune generally make a good song – ESPECIALLY a good tune. (About 80% in my reckoning.)
But I’ve never placed any especial value on SONGS per se, as far as my personal listening goes. I’d much rather listen to a great performance of a bad song than a bad performance of a good one. The former is thrilling; the latter is torture.

GEORGE: In fact, The Detroit Sound. JOHN: In fact, yes. GEORGE: In fact, yeah. Tamla-Motown artists are our favorites. The Miracles. JOHN: We like Marvin Gaye. GEORGE: The Impressions PAUL & GEORGE: Mary Wells. GEORGE: The Exciters. RINGO: Chuck Jackson. JOHN: To name but eighty. 

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13 July 2012
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Not wishing to derail this too much, but The Smiths were incredible. Fabulous lyrics, yes, but don’t underestimate Johnny Marr’s skill as a musician and songwriter. The Boy With The Thorn In His Side, Bigmouth Strikes Again, I Started Something I Couldn’t Finish, That Joke Isn’t Funny Anymore, I could pick a dozen more at random and they all had fantastic melodies, lyrics, hooks. This Charming Man still gets played on the radio (occasionally) because of the melody and guitar line, not for the lyrics. Their first album was a dirge, though.

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15 August 2012
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JET!
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What a ridiculously fantastic thread. I was just digging around here and I’m glad i found it – I applaud you, Mr. S. Loved all the replies.

For me, there are a lot of factors that can go into a song hitting me the right way. I’ve noticed that songs and albums that my parents used to play in the car when I was pretty young always stick with me as great music. I think that subconsciously it’s probably the standart to which I compare everything (a ton of U2, Parachutes by Coldplay, Jimmy Buffett, Wings, etc.). So if I hear that music after a long time, the familiarity of it and the time I spent away from it makes me love it.

A catchy guitar hook will almost definitely do it for me. Like Under the Bridge by the Chilli Peppers and a lot of music by The Strokes and The Stones. Or a catchy melody.

But the emotions of the song really do it for me. I’m a huge sucker for upbeat electro-pop stuff, like Coldplay’s new album and a lot of new alternative rock out there because it makes me feel energized. And it doesn’t have to be upbeat to capture my attention – when emotion is conveyed through a big sound or really good piano playing or amazing opera singing I love it just as much.

Now if the song is fun to sing and it is perfectly in my range so I can sing along, that’s a big part of it too. If I can be more engaged in it I love it more. I think my range is similar to Paul’s, which is why I love to sing along to every one of his songs.

I do take into consideration whatever my family and friends recommend to me. What the general public thinks of it doesn’t matter to me; I still like some top 40 music. only if it’s good though.

Sometimes I won’t like a song when I first hear it, but upon hearing it several times I start to see things in it that I like, such as lyrics or the particular way an instrument is used. That’s how I came to like Radiohead – I really WANTED to like it but it didn’t click so I listened to it over and over and now I understand why it’s great music. When I pay attention to the lyrics and I relate to them or they capture my imagination, then I start to like the songs more. And songs that put me in a trance like Flying and Tomorrow Never Knows I don’t always like at first, but after awhile they start to capture me.

And finally, the memories and nostalgia count for a lot. I love listening to my playlists from a few years ago; it’s a great way to revisit who I’ve been.

Wow that came out a lot longer than I thought it would… I just love music so much *overcome with joy*

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15 August 2012
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For me a song needs a good melody, lyrics aren’t very important for me. Sometimes they are, though, mainly in ballads for example Golden Slumbers and The Long And Winding Road . What is also important for me is the voice that sings the song, for example I mainly prefer paul’s and george’s songs over john’s becuase I love paul’s and george’s voice and I don’t like john’s very much. I also would love angie by the rolling stones if, for example, paul mccartney had sung it, Jagger’s voice is okay in rock songs (not very good but okay) but it’s terrible in ballad

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15 August 2012
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I like this thread too, Jet ahdn_paul_06 Glad you dug it out.

For me it’s usually the lyrics and singer combined; how well they can tell a story or pass an emotion or ambience, for example. I do believe that human voice is the most beautiful instrument there

Regarding the actual musical instruments, I’m more likely to be attracted to songs in which instruments such as piano ( or any other keyboard), violin or electrical guitar play a prominent; for some reason other instruments move me more than the others.

And of course, attachment to the band/ artist or the situation in which you have heard the song; if I hear unexpectedly a beatle song, for example, it’s much more likely to make me grin than if I listened to it from the record on purpose ( not that I don’t enjoy that, too) I suppose it has to do with finding a familar thing in an unfamiliar situation that makes you more comfortable

Sometimes techinal prowess just makes me gasp, even if I don’t like the song in particular, but greatest moments are in doubt those in which the instruments and vocals become as one, like IWYSSH or While My Guitar Gently Weeps ; I can visualize the guitar weeping

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What is also important for me is which memories I combine with this song. For example, probably the only early beatles song I like is I Call Your Name . When I first heard it, something awesome happened, I don’t know what but it was definitely one of the most awesome moments in my life. Every time I hear this song now I feel happy because It reminds me on the first moment I heard this song, even if I don’t know anymore what happened in this moment

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15 August 2012
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For me, it’s all about lyrics.
I remember the first time I heard “Shake it Out” by Florence + the machine. I was really upset at the time, and the song really spoke to me. It especially woke me up when she sang the words, “I’m always dragging that horse around, and our love is pastured, such a mournful sound, so tonight, I’m gonna bury that horse in the ground”. I realized I needed to “bury” my “horse” (my horse being my problem) and moving on with life.
Here, I’ll relate it to the Beatles.
The first time I heard “Girl”, the lyrics blew me away. Each verse was filled with even more heartache than the last (the 2nd verse is my personal favorite). It really showed me that love is a complicated thing, the way the lyrics talk about this girl like he’ll never forgive her, but he still shows admiration for her. Being an Almost-13-year-old-girl, I don’t know a lot about this stuff, but the lyrics, plus John’s singing, plus the melody, make it the perfect song.

“I was special. I always have been. Why didn't anyone notice me?"
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15 August 2012
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minime said

And of course, attachment to the band/ artist or the situation in which you have heard the song; if I hear unexpectedly a beatle song, for example, it’s much more likely to make me grin than if I listened to it from the record on purpose ( not that I don’t enjoy that, too) I suppose it has to do with finding a familar thing in an unfamiliar situation that makes you more comfortable

Very true. Lately I haven’t been listening to the Beatles a ton on my ipod because I am into a couple other bands for the summer, but yesterday Hey Jude came onto the radio as I was pulling into my driveway and I just had to sit there the whole song and sing every word and every na na. It’s almost better that way, so I treasure it every time I hear their music unexpectedly.

And FlyOn13, that line in Shake It Out really got me too! When I heard it, that’s when I started paying attention to the song. And it’s conflicting for me because I really love horses and I spend every day with them, so I cringe a little bit internally at that line but it’s such an interesting one. That song had such a big sound, it’s awesome. Very well put-together.

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15 August 2012
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FlyOn13 said
Being an Almost-13-year-old-girl, I don’t know a lot about this stuff, but the lyrics, plus John’s singing, plus the melody, make it the perfect song.

Oh you will found out pretty soon a-hard-days-night-george-10.

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We are studying the Common Practice Period in AP Music Theory, which lays out rules for melody and harmonization, where from the 17th to 19th century, all music followed these rules. In this period, composers like Bach, Haydn, Handel, Mozart and Beethoven would compose their melodies within the guidelines and harmonies around it. I find this interesting because a lot of the music from this period has a similar sound.

Now there are little nitpicky rules for melodies (like no leaps greater than a fifth or using a second leap following a fourth), but most of the rules apply to harmonization. This gives composers a lot of freedom to come up with melodies, but not very much liberty to play with the harmony and experiment with sounds.

Because of this, the basic melody had to be beautiful and original in order for the music to good. In order to write good music, you had to have a natural gift for melody, a gift few had.

Now I can’t say what makes the hair stand up on someone’s spine when they hear a phrase, because that varies from person to person, but what I believe makes The Beatles music so good is their ability to break these harmonic rules, implement new and cool sounds, and use their astounding gifts of melody to create records. 

For example, Lucy In The Sky With Diamonds has a one note melody, which is not allowed in the common practice period. It also incorporates indian music, guitar, and other psychedelic tones along with the tune that John came up with in his head. This combination is what makes the music so wonderful.

At least that’s how I have begun to see it. a-hard-days-night-paul-3

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Ive thought about this, and I still haven’t figured it out. Sometimes I can define what makes a song tick for me, but more often it’s just chemistry. It’s the same as asking, ‘Why do we fall in love with the people we do?’ You can’t really find an answer, because even if you love someone’s qualities, more often you love those qualities because you love them, not the othet way around. 

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4 October 2016
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The person hearing it.

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4 October 2016
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sir walter raleigh said

For example, Lucy In The Sky With Diamonds has a one note melody, which is not allowed in the common practice period. It also incorporates indian music, guitar, and other psychedelic tones along with the tune that John came up with in his head. This combination is what makes the music so wonderful.  

You just reminded me of something. I remember seeing a documentary where George Martin played Lucy In The Sky With Diamonds on a piano and sang the melody. He also commented on it having a one note melody but he sang it wrong which really surprised me considering his musical background. I thought I would just check in case I am going mad but the melody does move around apart from the first four notes. When George Martin sang it he used one note all the way up to “marmalade skies”

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